Bosma Murder Trial 02.11.16 - Day 8

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Interesting excerpt from the Criminal Code of Canada regarding "Parties to Offences: Common Intention":

https://zoupio.lexum.com/calegis/rs...EvMWLxY1oU8SQdELEulJFTEVWQU5DRSx0YWI6xJ9jKSk=

Common intention

(2) Where two or more persons form an intention in common to carry out an unlawful purpose and to assist each other therein and any one of them, in carrying out the common purpose, commits an offence, each of them who knew or ought to have known that the commission of the offence would be a probable consequence of carrying out the common purpose is a party to that offence.


R.S., c. C-34, s. 21.


Person counselling offence

22. (1) Where a person counsels another person to be a party to an offence and that other person is afterwards a party to that offence, the person who counselled is a party to that offence, notwithstanding that the offence was committed in a way different from that which was counselled.
Click to expand...
 
inbetweendoors said:
I think some of us speculated when we heard undercarriage but thought that would be too far fetched... *whimper*

ETA...or....maybe he needed to be dismembered for the incinerator. :(
Click to expand...

2013 there was said something by LE re "preparing" (for the burning in a barrel). Later the incinerator came into play. IMO if I remember well. Link not found today.
 
RandomName479 said:
This theory has entered my mind.....although the use of burner phones indicates a level of premeditation, it could have just been for the theft. Scrambling after the fact to get the incinerator/text employees/etc to get everything cleaned up seems less organized that it could have been. That being said, does it really matter? Maybe someone with some law background can help me out.....but my understanding was that because the murder was during a kidnapping it is automatically 1st degree....whether it was planned or not. And the fact that they got into the truck to go for a test drive with TB instead of stealing it when it was parked IMO constitutes kidnapping.....
Click to expand...

I guess that you can add the fact that by that point in time young Dellon had already killed two people. Didn't really seem to bother him either. I'm pretty sure the intent was to kill TB.

What I find disturbing is how Millard's circle of friends didn't seem bothered by it. CN even helps him out. I've been married 25 years and I'm certain she would have called crime stoppers on day one. What is wrong with these people?


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DeepWoodsOff said:
My instinct is telling me they never intended to let him go home alive but it is also telling me they didn't intend to shoot him in the truck. If you wanted the truck, why create a mess so big that you had to strip the interior? I can't see them wanting that mess to deal with. They had a plan, Tim fought back, they shot him? MOO
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Maybe it's as simple as he tried to get out of the truck and flee when someone else was exiting the rear of the vehicle and the door locks were off. If this was in that field and he was able to flee so close to home, he would have had LE on the phone within minutes (or just used his cell) and they could have tracked down the two vehicles in flight. These guys had a long way to go before they could hide that truck safely. And they had just committed armed robbery.

Just an example.

MOO
 
Had to take a break & step away so I'm still catching up but - it seems to be from what was tweeted about all the blood evidence found, many who theorized that TB's blood seeped down into cracks and crevices inside the truck, was 100% spot on. And that really makes me sick :(
 
Just catching up now. How horrifying for SB, family and friends. This is sickening even to us. My heart aches and breaks for all. For the accused family members as well. :sick:
 
RandomName479 said:
This theory has entered my mind.....although the use of burner phones indicates a level of premeditation, it could have just been for the theft. Scrambling after the fact to get the incinerator/text employees/etc to get everything cleaned up seems less organized that it could have been. That being said, does it really matter? Maybe someone with some law background can help me out.....but my understanding was that because the murder was during a kidnapping it is automatically 1st degree....whether it was planned or not. And the fact that they got into the truck to go for a test drive with TB instead of stealing it when it was parked IMO constitutes kidnapping.....
Click to expand...

TB apparently got into the truck voluntarily. ( not necessarily kidnapping ) Burner phones aside, as we have yet to know which belonged to whom, I don't see anything as premeditated murder. There is also nothing to suggest forcible confinement at this stage, even if it's implied by Crown. MOO
 
Tony Cornacchia @TCorn1969
@susanclairmont #bosma will any of today's photos be made public tonight?

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
Eventually. But they have not yet been entered as exhibits because the witness is still on the stand.
 
andreww said:
I guess that you can add the fact that by that point in time young Dellon had already killed two people. Didn't really seem to bother him either. I'm pretty sure the intent was to kill TB.

What I find disturbing is how Millard's circle of friends didn't seem bothered by it. CN even helps him out. I've been married 25 years and I'm certain she would have called crime stoppers on day one. What is wrong with these people?
Click to expand...

Do some research into who these people hung out with regularly.
 
Ontario Mom said:
Had to take a break & step away so I'm still catching up but - it seems to be from what was tweeted about all the blood evidence found, many who theorized that TB's blood seeped down into cracks and crevices inside the truck, was 100% spot on. And that really makes me sick :(
Click to expand...

That was my theory, but you have to remember that a floor is sealed. My speculation was based on the seepage occurring during disassembly when bolts would be removed and holes would be opened up. That doesn't account for the blood in the wheel well or on the exhaust. It is possible that they drove the stripped truck out of the hanger to hose the inside down, causing some splash up on the underside of the vehicle.


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Gumshew said:
Do some research into who these people hung out with regularly.
Click to expand...

Ya but CN didn't seem like that type. She a university student for gods sake!


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andreww said:
That was my theory, but you have to remember that a floor is sealed. My speculation was based on the seepage occurring during disassembly when bolts would be removed and holes would be opened up. That doesn't account for the blood in the wheel well or on the exhaust. It is possible that they drove the stripped truck out of the hanger to hose the inside down, causing some splash up on the underside of the vehicle.


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Click to expand...

That's a really good point. I hadn't even thought of that but it certainly makes sense.
 
Going back to AJ for a moment - I believe at one point he said he never looked inside the truck (I'll try and find that but if someone else does first, thank you!) but took a pic of the VIN. From what I've read, the VIN on that make/model is actually INSIDE the vehicle: driver's dash near the windshield or inside driver's door. So... he would have had to look inside at least that far, to get that pic. (realizing this may have already been stated & I missed it so apologies if it's a duplicate)
 
I'm not even going to try and sleuth, the police have done their job, there's no sleuthing left at this point IMO. I'm just so puzzled that if there was this much of a mess, why on earth did they not power wash the truck off? They have a huge plane hanger and they can't wash a truck in it? They had Tues, Wed and Thurs to do this? Were they going to get it painted red with all the blood all over it? So strange IMO
 
All that blood under the truck at the back. Doesn't it make sense they put him in the back of the truck? I can think of a reason why they would do that.
 
andreww said:
Ya but CN didn't seem like that type. She a university student for gods sake!
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In the end, even as a university student, she's not so smart. Did she never visit the hangar, or not know how MS made a living, ....etc???
I don't think having enrolled in a university program automatically negates any chance of unsavoury behaviour in anyone.
 
SnooperDuper said:
If the murder occurred as an accident during an intended truck theft then it is first degree murder, even if the death was accidental...because it occurred during the commission of another crime.
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<bbm>

The qualifiers for first degree murder aren't just any crime; they are very specifically related to one of the following offences (snipped/summarized by me to avoiding spilling the whole enchilada onto the board):

Classification of murder

231 (1) Murder is first degree murder or second degree murder.

(2) Murder is first degree murder when it is planned and deliberate.

(3) Contracted murder

(4) Murder of peace officer, etc.

(5) Hijacking, sexual assault or kidnapping

(e) section 279 (kidnapping and forcible confinement)

(6) Criminal harassment

(6.01) Murder &#8212; terrorist activity

(6.1) Murder &#8212; criminal organization

(6.2) Intimidation

(7) All murder that is not first degree murder is second degree murder.

from:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-52.html#docCont

In this case, the only two that I can see that would result in first degree are the premeditated or forcible confinement.
 
SnooperDuper said:
No it is life max, and a minimum 25 years to parole...though if DM is found guilty in the WM and LC cases, he could be looking at minimum 50 or 75 years to parole.
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I would suggest that if there are multiple murder convictions registered as a result of the next two trials for either or both DM or MS, both will be facing the prospect of earning the "dangerous offender" categorization .. joining Williams and Bernardo on the Life sentence secured housing unit conga-line.
 
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