Prosecutor Juan Martinez releases new book, February 2016 - #2

Thanks to y'all for a fun debate. Hopefully will be able to pop in here and there over the next few weeks to throw in my 2 cents.

Paatra said:

Have to say, Hope, this is the best paragraph EVER Love your posts!

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Thank you for the kind words......

pocketaccent said:

Right!?! Made me lol. Maybe she can do one for Gus. Please?

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Your turn, Pocket, and I know it would rock if you wrote it!

Nighty night.....

Val1 said:

Iirc he also testified that there was nothing on the internal memory of the camera, everything came from the memory stick. As for dating the unallocated pics, if you go read how Encase handled that, at least back in 2008, it would give the last date the camera had been accessed, as for the time, who knows, maybe that's what time the detective pulled those pics.

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Dworkin never testified he examined Travis camera. He did examine Arias Canon dslr

The Canon dslr had no internal memory, had one memory card, 4gb. He pulled photos off that camera.

There is no doubt all different levels and degrees of sicknesses.
What really scared me in watching JA was her lack of emotion and lack of empathy for others. It scared me to think how she could easily fool people into thinking she was normal. I could easily see how Travis got fooled at first.

The trial was very helpful to expose her at certain times.

During her closing statements during sentencing the way she so easily tore into the family's feelings by describing how Travis was awake while she slit his throat. She was able to say those things so easily without it bothering her one bit. No real emotion or feelings for others.

The only thing that riled her up was a baby crying and interrupting her and she turned to give the baby and the mother of the baby the evil eye.

Many other times during the trial she would discuss very shocking things in a matter of fact way because it just did not bother her.

A recent case that had someone similar to her is Holmes from the Colorado Theatre shooting trial. Some of the interviews done by the doctors with Holmes showed him to have similar no-conscience attitude on very sad and shocking things. But they didn't bother Holmes at all.

I had read where people like JA and Holmes who lack in the conscience area tend to have to watch others to watch their reactions so they can copy them in a group setting. Since they cannot respond involuntarily on their own they learn to watch others and mimic their emotional responses. I think that is why JA studied the jurors and she was always looking around at the people attending the trial when they had intermissions and had to stand for the judge. She wanted to be sure to mimic appropriate behavior and copy appropriate reactions because it doesn't come naturally to her.

Its quite scary to me that she can seem so normal at times and yet have such serious issues as well.

Hope4More said:

Thanks to y'all for a fun debate. Hopefully will be able to pop in here and there over the next few weeks to throw in my 2 cents.

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Going somewhere?

For WEEKS??

Sorry, but I did not get that memo.

Hope4More said:

I'm about specifics for now, though as a philosophy professor once told me, I'm eagle not mouse, and tend towards "flaming speculation, " though since he gave me all A's must not have been too terrible a thing.

We'll have to agree to disagree about her testimony on this specific day. I hate to confess how many times I've watched a good many portions of JM's cross of her, and how she testifies this day is just plain different. If you get the time and enjoy watching brilliant lawyering just out of appreciation for his artistry, this is the hour to watch.

Just in my humble opinion, anyway.

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But specifics can often be better understood when they're not completely divorced from the bigger picture. The nature of her answers and non-answers are rooted in and informed by her personality and its current environment. Her personality, in that environment, practically require answers that deliberately confound and thwart Juan's efforts to get at any real information and shed any real light on what happened that day.

Hatfield said:

There is no doubt all different levels and degrees of sicknesses.
What really scared me in watching JA was her lack of emotion and lack of empathy for others. It scared me to think how she could easily fool people into thinking she was normal. I could easily see how Travis got fooled at first.

The trial was very helpful to expose her at certain times.

During her closing statements during sentencing the way she so easily tore into the family's feelings by describing how Travis was awake while she slit his throat. She was able to say those things so easily without it bothering her one bit. No real emotion or feelings for others.

The only thing that riled her up was a baby crying and interrupting her and she turned to give the baby and the mother of the baby the evil eye.

Many other times during the trial she would discuss very shocking things in a matter of fact way because it just did not bother her.

A recent case that had someone similar to her is Holmes from the Colorado Theatre shooting trial. Some of the interviews done by the doctors with Holmes showed him to have similar no-conscience attitude on very sad and shocking things. But they didn't bother Holmes at all.

I had read where people like JA and Holmes who lack in the conscience area tend to have to watch others to watch their reactions so they can copy them in a group setting. Since they cannot respond voluntarily on their own they learn to watch others and mimic their emotional responses. I think that is why JA studied the jurors and she was always looking around at the people attending the trial when they had intermissions and had to stand for the judge. She wanted to be sure to mimic appropriate behavior and copy appropriate reactions because it doesn't come naturally to her.

Its quite scary to me that she can seem so normal at times and yet have such serious issues as well.

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BBM: That's because a psychopath has no concept of right or wrong and is devoid of emotion. Their reaction to events is usually by rote because they lack the ability to feel actual emotion that would elicit a reaction in a normal person.

There was a case a few years ago of a child who disappeared in Florida and her father acted very weirdly at times. I believe it was because he is a sociopath and had not had experience with a similar situation at any time in his life so that he could have had enough practice on how to react. That caused him to not know what to say or how to act and whether he had anything to do with his daughter's disappearance or not is unknown but his inappropriate actions and words sure made him look guilty. I would bet that from now on, though, he would be able to pretend an appropriate emotion because he may have observed others and has had ample time to practice.

Hope4More said:

I'm about specifics for now, though as a philosophy professor once told me, I'm eagle not mouse, and tend towards "flaming speculation, " though since he gave me all A's must not have been too terrible a thing.

We'll have to agree to disagree about her testimony on this specific day. I hate to confess how many times I've watched a good many portions of JM's cross of her, and how she testifies this day is just plain different. If you get the time and enjoy watching brilliant lawyering just out of appreciation for his artistry, this is the hour to watch.

Just in my humble opinion, anyway.

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I'll have to (re)watch it, and if you have the time I would appreciate it if you could point me to a day you think contrasts well with this one in the context you're discussing, but something occurred to me just now; couldn't the fact that Juan was particularly on his game this day be its own explanation as to why she was particularly contrary?

EquallyDivided said:

Yes, but she was SO BAD at the whole game plan. Terrible actually. This is just my opinion, mind you.

1. Stole Grandfather's gun mere DAYS before the murder.
JA: But it wasn't me, look, someone stole a $10 and $20 from me too! Besides, I wasn't even there...

2. Logged into his accounts unaware they could tell by the IP.
JA: Not me, must have been someone in Riverside(points at DR) using a proxy to frame me!

3. Bought gas can and saved the receipt.
JA: Not my fault if Wal-mart employees are dishonest!

4. Bought gas for several gas can at the same station...with her credit card.
JA: I was helping out that poor homeless person, see, I even brought some snacks and bottled water to give to him/her.

5. Put license plate back on UPSIDE DOWN.
JA: Gosh! Those skateboarders were so mean to me... *cries*

6. Cell phone radio silent until Kingman.
JA: I told you, my charger was lost, umm stolen, oh wait, I found it under my seat... not my fault the battery doesn't last 1000 years. Besides, if DB or MM realllly loved me they would have made sure it was fully charged before I left town.

7. Manufactured pedo letters.
JA: Why blame me?? I was in jail, besides it was Bob White who sent them to my DT!

8. Caught interfering with a witness through magazine codes.
JA: Always blaming me... how could I interfere with anyone while locked up under Sheriff Joe watchful eye? Didn't you hear, he took away my videochat!!

9. Manufactured false events (pedo claim, abuse, abuse!) even though it contradicts her very own diary.
JA: It was the truth, I never lie, or punch holes in walls, or kick dogs, or lock cats up for weeks at a time with no fresh food or water!

10. Slashes tires repeatedly, and everyone knows it's her.
JA: I've never been violent, except for that time when my mom's attorney had to help out with that motel room problem, or had to move out of that holey wall apt, or hit my lil bro in the head with a bat...

11. Takes pictures of herself, committing a horrendous crime.
JA: I wasn't even there... and my other pants(the ones that I got a 2/$1 deal) that look like that are in Yreka.

12. Leaves evidence, hair, blood, prints all over the crime scene.
JA: Hey, I almost lived there, I even slept in TA's bed when he didn't know, oops I mean when I was house-sitting ... of course my DNA and prints will be there.

13. Tells Daryll she's going to Mesa when she asks to borrow his gas cans.
JA: I did not, he's getting so old, his hearing isn't what it used to be, besides, how could he know that when I was sure I hadn't told anyone?... oops)!

14. Baiting the investigator for information right after Travis' body is found.
JA: I just wanted to know what happened to my friend...so I could help.

15. Is a full day late getting to her alibi's house, and doesn't call or update in any way.
JA: I told you, my charger was lost, umm stolen, oh wait, I found it under my seat...besides if RB realllly loved me, he would have made sure I was fully charged up before I left on that long trip that needed 3 full gas cans just in case I got lost in Las Vegas...

Taken just these few, off of the top of my brain instances of the murderers boneheaded actions, I find it completely implausible that she planted those pictures with the appropriate file data. No. Way. No. How.

And this is just the stuff we know about, that wasn't deemed "too prejudicial". Sheesh!


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

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My comments in red, but yes, I think most of us agree with you. Tunnel vision personified.

TexMex said:

Dworkin never testified he examined Travis camera. He did examine Arias Canon dslr

The Canon dslr had no internal memory, had one memory card, 4gb. He pulled photos off that camera.

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Perhaps we crossed wires somewhere but Det.M says, starting at about 2:25 in this video, that he couldn't pull anything off the internal memory for TA's camera because he couldn't find anything saved to the internal memory. He also goes on to explain that for the memory stick(he briefly explains the difference between it and a sim card) he was unable to use a write-blocker to pull the info off it. Therefore he plugged them directly into the reader to pull the info using Encase.

At 16:49 he says the date/time info on the unallocated pics was created by the Encase software report. JM has him verify that the date/time info for the shower pics came from the camera having imprinted them directly, but I didn't hear him say that specifically about the nudes, though the way they discussed all the deleted(shower) and unallocated(sexual) pics together they do seem to infer it, in fact he had just said that typically he wouldn't expect it from unallocated files. Now from what I've read on Encase, at least back in 2008, it tells you that it will give the last date accessed on the camera to unallocated files, therefore it would follow that thumbprints in unallocated spaces with no file left at all won't have anything, but those with partial files will be given the last date the camera was accessed.

[video=youtube;E9hvA3hQpBk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9hvA3hQpBk[/video]

Hope4More said:

She had no intention of actually giving that sex tape to anyone. It would have destroyed HER reputation as well. The "being afraid she couldn't find a kinky Mormon to marry " line alone would have done her in.

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I don't believe that Arias cared for her reputation. She pretended to as it was part of her play Mormon act. What Arias cared about was getting what she wanted - Travis. Psychopaths are goal orientated and you hear her describing goals in court and interviews.

The evidence that she didn't care about what others thought of her relentless pursuit of Travis is plentiful. She slept under his Christmas tree when not wanted. She crept in through his doggy door. She endured the showdown with the Hughes' and rejection. She spied on him and he and others knew it. Brazenly, she powered through where normal women would be embarrassed and retreat. His friends knew that he didn't seriously want her from very early on. That's why she tried to manipulate the Hughes and succeeded, for a very short time.

Arias read his journals, knew she was mocked by his friends from quite early on but none of that mattered. Her eyes remained on the prize. When she lost that - she lost it and wanted Travis to pay. Any allusion to her reputation was merely to cover for her actions or create a Mormon smokescreen. I doubt she had any interest in Ryan Burns beyond an alibi. Offering Travis a last, apologetic, no strings sex session sounds exactly what she would do. With the bonus that Travis got an insurance policy of naked pictures of her should she try to blackmail him.

You only have to watch her in court to see how little she cares about how people perceive her. Despite tutoring form Nurmi, she couldn't play the victim with a reputation to maintain. What the lying psychopath cares about is winning, at all costs. Thanks to Juan Martinez and Detective Flores, she lost.

the images (except two which had been overridden) contained the date and time they were created. They did not contain the time they were deleted...

13 min in

JM : let's talk about the first set of photographs 164-169 exhibits (nudes) recovered from the unallocated/deleted space of the camera. Were you able to find the date and time these images were created?


Melendez: "Typically you may not, but in this case these images when taken with this camera it embeds the date and time to the file itself."

Melendez testifies the pics all have file information and also metadata/EXIF
When a photo is taken, the camera makes two copies. One copy is the original size, and the other copy is the thumbnail that we view when we replay photos on the camera. The earlier the photo is deleted, the more of its info is overwritten. Since the sex pics were deleted first, they lost more of their information than say the murder photos, which were the last pics deleted.

Melendez said he got the information on the front of the pics from the metadata. He was indicating that he put it on the photos in red, and the reason two sex pics don't have the red date and time stamp is because he could not recover even the meta data, but Juan Martinez cleared this issue up by pointing out that the KY Jelly was in a dated pic by Travis' arm and pillow, and in a pic of Jodi, the KY was still in that same spot, though the pillow and Travis were no longer in that spot.

Val1 said:

Perhaps we crossed wires somewhere but Det.M says, starting at about 2:25 in this video, that he couldn't pull anything off the internal memory for TA's camera because he couldn't find anything saved to the internal memory. He also goes on to explain that for the memory stick(he briefly explains the difference between it and a sim card) he was unable to use a write-blocker to pull the info off it. Therefore he plugged them directly into the reader to pull the info using Encase.

At 16:49 he says the date/time info on the unallocated pics was created by the Encase software report. JM has him verify that the date/time info for the shower pics came from the camera having imprinted them directly, but I didn't hear him say that specifically about the nudes, though the way they discussed all the deleted(shower) and unallocated(sexual) pics together they do seem to infer it, in fact he had just said that typically he wouldn't expect it from unallocated files. Now from what I've read on Encase, at least back in 2008, it tells you that it will give the last date accessed on the camera to unallocated files, therefore it would follow that thumbprints in unallocated spaces with no file left at all won't have anything, but those with partial files will be given the last date the camera was accessed.

[video=youtube;E9hvA3hQpBk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9hvA3hQpBk[/video]

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It doesn't help that at the beginning of the clip they use terms like sim card, memory stick, memory card -interchangeably at times. Media device also used.

Arias' expression - intense concentration at six minutes in makes me laugh. Her stupidity here convicted her for premeditated murder but she is trying to act the interested, knowledgeable professional photographer.

At around 13 minutes in, it is explained that Travis' camera embeds date and time on files. Other cameras don't typically do this.

At around 16 minutes in, they discuss the nude images. The method of date and time was extracted by Encase, as the shower photos were.

Val: "At 16:49 he says the date/time info on the unallocated pics was created by the Encase software report. JM has him verify that the date/time info for the shower pics came from the camera having imprinted them directly, but I didn't hear him say that specifically about the nudes".

They go through each pic - specifically on the nudes. Exhibits 164 to 169.

The detective confirms the dating and time stamps retrieved from Encase then goes through each nude exhibit, starting at number 164. Juan Martinez notes that unallocated space and clusters are the same thing.

I don't see anything to suggest that the nude pics and shower pics - with Encase retrieved time and date stamps (Travis' camera does this to files, as testified earlier. Other cameras typically may not). Some of the nude pics do not have date and time stamps but most do. They go through each nude pic and verify time and date stamps with a few not verified although the process is the same. The sequence of pics is in line with activities and other time stamps. At 23 minutes in - Juan Martinez gets confirmation that the shower pics were stamped by Travis's camera in the same way as the nude pics.

I'm perplexed why this evidence is being dismissed to suggest that they didn't have sex. It's pretty strong, in my opinion. That and Juan dismissing anything else as wholly implausible seems persuasive to me. Anything else doesn't make sense.

If I have missed something, please let me know.

Beautifully clear, TexMex. I only saw your response after I had typed mine. Would have saved me time. ��

TrialWatcher said:

It doesn't help that at the beginning of the clip they use terms like sim card, memory stick, memory card -interchangeably at times. Media device also used.

Arias' expression - intense concentration at six minutes in makes me laugh. Her stupidity here convicted her for premeditated murder but she is trying to act the interested, knowledgeable professional photographer.

At around 13 minutes in, it is explained that Travis' camera embeds date and time on files. Other cameras don't typically do this.

At around 16 minutes in, they discuss the nude images. The method of date and time was extracted by Encase, as the shower photos were.

Val: "At 16:49 he says the date/time info on the unallocated pics was created by the Encase software report. JM has him verify that the date/time info for the shower pics came from the camera having imprinted them directly, but I didn't hear him say that specifically about the nudes".

They go through each pic - specifically on the nudes. Exhibits 164 to 169.

The detective confirms the dating and time stamps retrieved from Encase then goes through each nude exhibit, starting at number 164. Juan Martinez notes that unallocated space and clusters are the same thing.

I don't see anything to suggest that the nude pics and shower pics - with Encase retrieved time and date stamps (Travis' camera does this to files, as testified earlier. Other cameras typically may not). Some of the nude pics do not have date and time stamps but most do. They go through each nude pic and verify time and date stamps with a few not verified although the process is the same. The sequence of pics is in line with activities and other time stamps. At 23 minutes in - Juan Martinez gets confirmation that the shower pics were stamped by Travis's camera in the same way as the nude pics.

I'm perplexed why this evidence is being dismissed to suggest that they didn't have sex. It's pretty strong, in my opinion. That and Juan dismissing anything else as wholly implausible seems persuasive to me. Anything else doesn't make sense.

If I have missed something, please let me know.

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Exactly right. These pics were one nail in her coffin (life with no parole, imagine knowing when you enter the gates of Perryville that you will only leave in a box--if anyone still cares enough to pick up your boy for a private burial).
She was placed at the scene before, during and after the murder via date and time stamped evidence. The gas cans were another nail...premeditation.

TexMex - We should thank Detective Melendez. What a great piece of detective work. Such a vital piece of the puzzle right there.

Arias and Casey Anthony made me sick. Thanks to Juan, Arias will never be free.

TrialWatcher said:

Well done, Detective Melendez. What a great piece of detective work. Such a vital piece of the puzzle right there.

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Yes. If Arias wasn't captured on film some DNA expert may have been able to muddy the waters as far as blood/hair/ evidence of her found at the scene. Put that evidence together with the date and time stamped evidence and she had no choice but to go with self defense, which was ridiculous with 29 stab wounds plus a gunshot.

I'm very impressed with MPD, Melendez, the crime scene techs, Detective Flores and especially Juan Martinez who worked tirelessly to put it all together for the jury.

Steve44 said:

I'll have to (re)watch it, and if you have the time I would appreciate it if you could point me to a day you think contrasts well with this one in the context you're discussing, but something occurred to me just now; couldn't the fact that Juan was particularly on his game this day be its own explanation as to why she was particularly contrary?

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Another thought, perhaps Dr. Fonseca had arrived in town, and by way of introduction, had given Jodi a few pointers on how to handle men in lawyer uniforms.