NOTE: All grammar or punctuation errors are my own!
January 28, 2016
True Crime Radio I Heart Radio Network
Tricia Griffith (TG) with Guest: Sheriff Bowerman (SB)
RE: DEORR KUNZ JR CASE - Missing July 10, 2015, Timber Creek Campground, Leadore, ID
00:01
TG: Its True Crime Radio on I Heart Radio Network. My name is Tricia Griffith. I am the proud owner of Websleuths.com, one of the coolest, if I do say so myself, discussion forums on the internet.
00:16
TG: I want to start out the show with this line: Sooner or later the truth will come out. Thats the last line in a letter from a private detective named Frank Vilt to missing toddler Deorr Kunzs parents. Mr. Vilt believes the parents are involved in Deorrs missing.
00:36
TG: Also, another PI, PI Klein, hired by Deorr Jrs grandfather came out a little bit ago and said he felt that Deorr was dead and that one or more of the adults last seen with Deorr could be involved. It is getting so wild and crazy and bizarre because a few months ago we had Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman on our show and he said that the people who were with Deorr on the day he disappeared were not considered to be involved. In fact, he was pretty emphatic about it. So, of course, being responsible people that we are on Websleuths, we told our members, hey, guess what? Parents are off limits. Sorry! Theyre not considered suspects. The Sheriff doesnt appear to be looking at them. Nobody is looking at them. They are victims.
01:26
TG: Well, it has all changed now. Sheriff Bowerman says the parents Deorr Kunz, Sr. and Jessica Mitchell are the main suspects. And, joining us tonight is Bessie, one of our incredible Administrators. Shes also the Administrator of Deorrs forum Deorrs thread. Also joining us, and I am so glad hes back with us, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman.
Sheriff Bowerman, thank you for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it.
Sheriff Bowerman (SB): Youre very welcome! Thanks for having me.
TG: Well, we have a ton of questions, but let me just start out with a basic question.
What changed your mind from the last time you were on the show not that long ago and you were pretty emphatic that, Hey, the parents theyre not, No, No, No, dont theyre fine, leave them alone. What changed?
02:13
SB: Well, after a pretty intense investigation and what I consider a lengthy investigation, we asked all the parties involved to take polygraphs. We were expecting a couple of them to come back inconclusive, and that would be the grandfather and the grandfathers friend. However, the first polygraph indicated that the parents were being less than truthful, and that concerned me, but you know I take polygraphs with a certain grain of salt so
I sent out their interviews to the FBI, their Behavioral Team. They examined them and found multiple inconsistencies, and so we asked them to re-polygraph, and they said they would, and the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th polygraphs, the same conclusion was made by the experts that they are being less than truthful. They know what happened and where Deorr is currently.
03:17
TG: Are you certain that theres no way Deorr could be in the water anywhere? Thats a big question that a lot of people have because
Couldnt Deorrs body be stuck under a rock or just possibly something like that happened?
03:35
SB: You know I dwelled on that fact for a long time but I have to trust the experts. They say when both people failed the same questions multiple times, there is something there and theyre being less than truthful, so I have to trust the experts.
03:54
TG: I understand. So youre going with that and as you should. We have many, many questions from our members, and one of them
Heres a good one that I think will help out a lot of our understanding of the situation.
04:09
TG: Prior the camping trip, when was Deorr last seen by someone other than his parents? Do you know?
04:15
SB: You know I know Bonneville County detectives have followed up on that particular aspect of the investigation, but to the best of my knowledge, from the time that they left Idaho Falls on July 9th which was in the early afternoon or early evening, uh, you know we have not had a confirmation-- an absolute 100% positive, that someone saw Deorr, but you know I still feel that he was at the campsite. Im just not sure of the timeline now. Do we have 45 minutes from the time he disappeared that they called in? Do we have an hour and a half and when still have to figure out the length of time it took Search and Rescue and my office to get there. Were talking about a remote area. You know it was almost 3 hours total, so, um
The new private investigator is saying he thinks its a four hour window there. I think its closer to 3, but its a long time, you know, so
um, but No, nobody has seen him prior to his going to Leadore.
05:27
TG: Another question from one of our members. Again, this will be very helpful.
05:31
TG: You have asked for people who may have witnessed interactions between the parents and Deorr to come forward. Is there any indication that Deorr was neglected or abused prior to this camping trip?
05:42
SB: You know, thats a part of investigation Im
Im not willing to talk about at this point. I know that were getting tips every day, people that think theres something thats usually small but they think its important for our office to know, and were following up on those leads as fast as we can, but theyre coming in quite frequently, so uh, you know Id rather not comment on any
anything of that nature.
06:13
TG: Thats absolutely understandable. Were talking with Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman. Were discussing the case of missing Deorr Kunz. He went missing in July of this year vanished during a camping trip supposedly with his parents, his great grandfather, and a family friend. Theyve done search after search after search and have not turned up anything. In the beginning, the parents were not considered suspects. Now lie detector issues, issues with the parents and their stories changing and inconsistencies has led the Sheriff to say, Yes, they are now suspects. Well be back with Sheriff Bowerman in just a moment. Youre listening to the True Crime Radio on the I Heart Radio network.
07:03
TG: And we are back my True Crime Angels with True Crime Radio on the I Heart Radio network. I am so grateful that Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman has come back to True Crime Radio to talk about the case of missing Deorr Kunz. Its a very, very tragic case. Its one of the hottest on Websleuths that we have right now. This cute little toddler went missing July 2015 on a camping trip and at first the parents and the two other people with the parents were not considered suspects, but a lot has happened since then. Lie detector issues, inconsistent statements, all kinds of things things that the Sheriff is going to talk about and there are some things that the Sheriff cannot talk about.
07:51
TG: Also with us right now is Bessie. She is our Administrator extraordinaire, and Bessie, Im going to turn it over to you for a little bit. I know you have a few questions for the Sheriff, so please feel free and go ahead
Bessie: Okay, Hi, Sheriff Bowerman, and thanks so much for coming back to talk with us.
One of the questions the timeline you know, Im sure you realize is important. Everybody is really curious, and you mentioned that 3-hour window. When would that have started and ended? Would that be from time they supposedly returned from the store to when they first responders showed up or
? Can you clarify that please?
08:33
SB: Sure. You know basically weve tried to narrow the timeline down from the time they actually realized he was missing or when they claim that he was missing and they didnt find him, and from that time period of when they searched and then when they called 911. Weve been trying to narrow that timeline down.
08:57
Bessie: Okay.
So you think, you think perhaps then from the time that they say they saw or realized Deorr was missing and they searched and they actually called 911 that theres been a 3-hour period in there?
09:10
SB: No, not exactly, but from the time that theyre saying he disappeared and until my office and Search & Rescue showed up, we have a 3-hour window, so theres a lot of time in between to have something happen and when he possibly disappeared.
09:29
Bessie: I see. So
so, yeah!
So theoretically something could have happened after they made the 911 call.
09:39
SB: Possibly, but I
I think its more likely that anything that occurred happened prior to the 911 and then the decision was made to call and to report Deorr missing.
09:54
Bessie: I see. Well, that
and then that would take us back to
This is a big question everyone here has.
The trip to the store and the time-stamped receipt that weve heard exists, um, was that was that a receipt that, and I dont know if you can answer but, did the parents give that receipt or yeah, was your department able to
to get that receipt from the store independently of the parents?
10:26
SB: Well, Im sure we got a copy from the store, but we went back and clarified from the store that that was a receipt from their store and for those particular items, and I think we were able to tell that most of those items were purchased. Um
I dont think there was any question there, but then we also asked the clerk, did you see a child? Initially she didnt even remember the parents, but when Vernal, the father, went back in there and quizzed her, she said, Oh, I remember you, but when he quizzed her about, do you remember seeing my son, she said, uh
I remember a child possibly, but I couldnt tell if it was a male or a female.
11:10
Bessie: Right, I remember you telling us the last time.
One of the other questions that comes up a lot is about the dog searches and the cadaver dogs, and we know that they were thrown off by the cremains in the reservoir, but before or after that did the
did either the scent dogs or the cadaver dogs alert or show any, you know, find anything that was relevant?
11:43
SB: You know, we had a couple alerts you know that were just kind of, we consider nothing major, but um a dog reacts unusual in a certain area and so we put more dogs in there and none of the other dogs alerted so, um
you know. Actually, its been not real positive from having those dogs in there. We didnt have anything that really led us to a certain place within our 3 mile radius.
12:15
Bessie: Um
okay. Lets see. Ive got so many questions in front of me and Im trying to, you know, kind of hit in on the ones that come up a lot.
12:27
TG: And Bessie, go ahead. Keep going. Thats fine, because youre doing a lot
a much better job than I am and Ill take all the credit, okay, so you just go ahead! Youre doing great!
12:36
Bessie: (laughs) Great! Uh, well, the dogs -- absolutely that was one of the big questions and of course the timeline, and that store receipt.
Also, some people have asked
you know we heard that there was uh
some overalls and maybe an ax or a shovel that were seized. Um
I dont know that thats a fact but thats come up. Is there anything you can comment on about that?
13:06
SB: Well, yes. There was a shovel at the scene. Somebody brought it out, I believe from the camp trailer, and um
you know a one point we were told there was a human hair on that but when it was brought out and displayed, it blew away in the wind so
you know. We had several people that say they thought they saw a human hair but we havent been able to collaborate that
13:33
Bessie: Okay. Um
13:34
TG: Bessie, I have a question here and then, and then Ill turn it back to you, okay?
13:39
TG: Sheriff Bowerman, when did you first suspect that the parents may be involved or that they werent being truthful? Did you kind of suspect it all along or did you feel that, you know, they were okay until all of the information came out about the polygraph?
13:54
SB: You know theyve been very cooperative. Theyve been very willing to talk to me and to my office and to my detectives down in Bonneville County so
not until the first polygraph came out and there was some indication that they were being less than truthful. At that time I was somewhat suspicious but I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, so you know
just more recently once the FBI concluded theirs and said beyond any doubt they have knowledge and they are being less than truthful.
14:31
TG: That is just so frustrating and just so maddening, and I cant imagine how it
how you and your deputies deal with this situation. Like I said, its so frustrating.
14:44
SB: We know little Deorr is the victim here, and we want to find him. Thats the most important thing, and if its an accident, we can live with that, and we can deal with that, but we need to have someone to step up, be truthful, and tell us what happened.
15:01
TG: Bessie, did you have any other questions? I can continue if youd like or if you have some, please feel free.
15:07
Bessie: Um, Ill turn it back to you for awhile, Tricia, and Ill jump in if I think of anything else.
15:13
TG: That would be great.
15:17
TG: Do you feel, one of the private detectives, I believe it was Frank , he said that he felt that they were using, the parents, Deorrs parents, were using this for their own personal gain? Do you believe that perhaps they were using this to collect money? Do you think theres something nefarious that way going on?
15:38
SB: You know I honestly dont have an opinion one way or another on that aspect um, you know because they have been very cooperative and very willing to talk to us, but I know they are doing fundraisers, and the public has been calling me and saying, Sheriff, we want to help. Do we donate money? Do we donate resources and thats been a real struggle for me, and so thats why I decided to go public because I want them to know the factsthe facts as we see them, that they are
being less than truthful, and then let them make an educated decision on whether they want to help at that point.
16:15
TG: Sheriff Bowerman, that is wonderful that you took into consideration the people that wanted to donate money because its true, peoples hearts are very big and they open up their wallets, especially when it comes to a child.
16:29
TG: If somebody wanted to donate, is there a fund perhaps that they could donate to your office perhaps set up for your Search & Rescue dogs or something like that?
16:37:
SB: You know I dont take any donations. My Salmon Search & Rescue is a complete volunteer organization and they do accept donations. However, I try not to be a part of that. Theres a lot of wonderful organizations out there. If we dont solve this one, dont stop donating! These groups and individuals that have these canine dogs, cadaver dogs and search dogstheyre fabulous! Theyre unimaginable! Please donate to them and maybe well find some other young child or another person thats lost. Im hoping still that we find Deorr but thats about the best I can do.
17:24
TG: One of our questions has to do with when was Deorr last seen by Isaac. Isaac was one of the friends at the campground. Is there any way to determine when Isaac last saw Deorr?
17:34
SB: Well, you know hes probably been the most consistent of all the witnesses on his interviews that have been more consistent than anybody else. Then he claims that they came back shortly around 1:00 or shortly thereafter and that was the last time that he saw him.
17:55
TG: Okay. So Isaac has been more forthcoming than anybody.
18:00
TG: What about the great grandfather, Deorrs great grandfather?
18:04
SB: You know he seems like a really nice gentleman. Hes got some health issues and some memory issues so
to say to the best of his ability has he always been real clear with us? No. Um...I think he struggles, um
but I cant say that hes being deceitful. I just think he struggles with his memory.
18:30
TG: And when the parents went camping and, lets see, the great grandfather and the friend. Did they have the appropriate camping gear to stay for those several days, do you think? Does that all pan out?
18:41
SB: You know one was in a camp trailer, one was in a tent, and the family was in the back of a motor vehicle, so
You know Ive seen people camp like that, so that didnt distress me. Food they had food. They tried to buy other food, and then they went to the store the next morning, so yeah, I think
I dont see any problem with that.
19:09
TG: Do you think the 911 calls will be made public soon? Can a citizen request copies of them now?
19:19
SB: I believe one has already been released and that was in the early stages of just him being missing, but now that weve determined that theres possible foul play, Ive asked my Dispatch Commander not to release any more copies of that but there are copies out there because I think it could be
it could be evidence.
19:41
TG: Exactly!
One of our members said, I noticed in your first comment this week, regarding the parents, you originally said they had been deceptive and then you changed that to less than truthful. Can you explain the reason for that change in wording? Now, there could be absolutely no reason but thats our Websleuths members, they get right down to the nitty gritty and really want the littlest details.
20:07
SB: Absolutely. I didnt want them to think their whole polygraph was deceptive. It wasnt. They passed portions of it, but the portions on whether they knew where Deorr was or knew what happened to him, they were not being
they were being less than truthful . So thats why I changed it. I didnt want them to think
normally you think when someone is deceptive everything they told you is a lie but thats not the case.
19:30
TG: Okay, and from one of our members comes this.
Was the dirty diaper ever found and proven to be from Deorr and was their blood in the diaper?
20:42
SB: You know Im not aware of any diaper found outside of the camp, and I dont recall any blood ever being observed on a diaper.
20:54
TG: And how about the toilet, the pit at the campsite. Was that ever fully drained and examined that you know of?
21:00
SB: Yes, there were actually two restrooms at the reservoir, one down where they were camped and one at the upper. We had them come in and pump both of them within a couple days of his disappearance.
21:15
TG: Okay. Were going to be coming back here in just a little bit. We are talking with Sheriff Lynn Bowerman. Were talking about the Deorr Kunz case--Deorr Kunz, Jr. missing since July of 2015 from a camping site. The parents at first not suspects. Now they are. Inconclusive or non-truthful answers to certain questions on their polygraph test. That has led to the change in the description of the parents, and Sheriff Bowerman, you have been fantastic. We have a few more questions left for you, and were going to be coming back right after this. From the I Heart Radio Network, its True Crime Radio. Back with Sheriff Bowerman right after this.
20:05
TG: Yes, indeed we are back, and we are learning a lot tonight from Sheriff Lynn Bowerman about the Deorr Kunz, Jr. missing case. Missing toddler since July of 2015. Parents went camping, took along the great grandfather and a friend, and now the parents are considered suspects in the disappearance of Deorr Kunz, Jr. He has not been found. Not anything of his has been found. No trace. He didnt get taken by an animal. He didnt drown. He vanished, and because of polygraph tests given to the parents and some of their answers where they were not truthful they have since been called suspects by the Sheriff.
22:52
TG: Now with us, in addition to Sheriff Bowerman, is Bessie our wonderful administrator on Websleuths. Bessie, you have some questions for the Sheriff so go ahead.
23:00
Bessie: Id like to go back to the friend, Isaac Reinwand, and, if you can just tell us, you said that he said about 1:00 p.m. was the last time he saw them and that would include Deorrlittle Deorr? Has he said that he saw Deorr alive and well about 1:00 p.m.?
23:24
SB: The mother said that they got back at 1:10 p.m. Isaac doesnt dispute that. Hes not watching a clock or a watch or anything of that sort, but he concurs that it was around that time period. They got back shortly after 1:00 p.m. The parents decide to go down to the creek to go fishing. Deorr remains behind. Hes not real privy to what the conversation was between grandpa and the parents, but he knows that just the three of them go down to the creekMom, Dad & Isaac.
24:03
Bessie:
and Isaac.
So we know at least as of around 1:00 p.m., 1:10 p.m. or somewhere in there
1:30 1:10 1:30, little Deorr was alive and well.
24:15
SB: Exactly.
24:17
Bessie: Okay. Thats really important (laughs) because thats a big question. Some people you know have wondered if he was actually even at the campsite at any time.
24:29
SB: Sure
24:30
Bessie: Um
and also,
some people wondered because Isaac Reinwand in his interview with Nate Eaton said that he couldnt answer any questionsthat he was told not to answer any questions, and you know then Mr. Klein kind of disputed that so we have a question here, you know, Did you advise or instruct Isaac Reinwand not to talk to the media?
24:59
SB: No, in fact, you know from the get go, Isaac, you know its been included in our interviews and he chose at some point in time to contact an attorney, and I think thats primarily due hes got a criminal record, and I think hes had some issues in the past and so he felt like hed been targeted in the past on other issues by law enforcement so I think he was trying to do the right thing and so he contacted an attorney.
25:30
Bessie: Well, thats understandable. Lets see oh
about cell phones was there anything unusual in their cell phone records? Was their texts or calls that afternoon during that 3-hour window?
25:57
SB: Sure. There were multiple calls, you know, and weve checked some of them out. Some of them were attempted and they didnt go through. Some of them werent received. Some of them were made to them that didnt go through. Thats kind of an area where the cell service is not consistent. We seized
we were actually given all cell phones and we gathered the data from those and have examined them extensively and still are.
26:29
Bessie: Okay.
26:32
TG: Bessie, I have a
yeah I have a question from one of our members and the question is:
26:37
TG: Did the four adults arrive at the same time at the camping ground on Thursday? How many cars were used and what cars? Do you have
do you know the make and model of these cars?
26:48
SB: I know one was a Suburban and one was a pickup. The Suburban was pulling a camping trailer that was driven by Grandpa, and Isaac rode with Grandpa. The pickup truck belongs to VernalVernal Deorr, and his wife & child rode with him, and those were the two vehicles at the scene and one camping trailer.
27:15
TG: And the question continues.
Did you get the impression that the great grandfather called the shots kind of with his friend and maybe the situation up there? Was he
do you feel like maybe he was kind of in control of the trip?
27:26
SB: Well, I think it was grandpas idea to take the trip, you know. Hed been in that country 25 years before and he liked to go camping and he liked to go fishing, so I think it was generally his idea. Thats what the impression is. Isaac has gone with him previously and so he was invited on the trip.
27:50
TG: And we do have this question, and I want you to be as truthful as possible, Sheriff, here.
One of our members would love to know if you read our Deorr threads on Websleuths by chance.
28:04
SB: You know I
you know I read a few of them but Ive chosen not to get involved in the social media because its a little frustrating you know and I dont want it to lead me a different direction but we get some tips from social media, and we get some tips from these threads and other people are reading them I think better than I do so, you know I have to apologize, no. I
I want to keep my mind fresh and keep it concentrated on trying to find Deorr and not chasing a lot of rumors or things like that that a lot of people you know
28:47
TG: Sheriff Bowerman, please do not apologize. You have nothing to apologize for. You are obviously a very dedicated and humble man, and I, for one, I think I speak for everybody, were very grateful that you are on Deorrs case. Deorr couldnt ask for a better person to be on his side and looking for him. So youre doing a fantastic job!
29:09
TG: Before we go to our last break, I have one more quick question. Are there a lot of interconnected roads and trails in that area thatare important to the investigation? Is that part of whats making it difficult?
29:20
SB: Yeah, its a vast area. Theres just one way in and one way out, so, that helps and hurts, you know, I mean theres a lot of timber up there and then theres a lot of open country with sagebrush and lots of rocks so
29:38
TG: Okay, Sheriff Bowerman, I apologize. Were going to be back with our final segment with Sheriff Lynn Bowerman talking about Deorr Kunz, Jr. and his disappearance, along with Bessie, our Administrator. Oh, so much more right after this on I Heart Radios True Crime Network.
30:03
TG: Okay! Thats the drumbeat of our last break approaching. Its True Crime Radio on the I Heart Radio Network. My name is Tricia Griffith. Joining us tonight is Sheriff Lynn Bowerman, and Sheriff Bowerman is searching for missing toddler Deorr Kunz, Jr. He went missing in July of last summer. Parents were with him at the campground along with his great grandfather and a friend, and everybody now in that circle is considered suspects, but mostly the parents, because apparently their polygraph tests came back, and they were not being truthful on crucial, crucial questions. Sheriff Bowerman, Im going to turn it over to Bessie now. She has some great final questions for you, and then well let you go and Im sure youll breathe a sigh of relief. Were almost done, I promise! Bessie, go ahead.
30:58
Bessie: Well, Sheriff, wed just like to know, are there plans for any further searches?
31:03
SB: You know absolutely. Right now the National Association for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) have expressed an interest in coming back up with dogs so were entertaining that. Recently we were in on snowmobiles. Theres 4-6 feet of snow in there so right now, of course, thats not possible. Basically, were just asking anybody that has firsthand knowledge of conversations that they either overheard or observedsome sort of dialogue between the parents and the infant that seemed unusual, please contact us with the information.
31:41
Bessie: And as far as the investigation aside from searching where do you go from here?
31:48
SB: Well, were going to sift through some of our tips and maybe go over some of those again and make sure we didnt miss anything. Were still getting tips of sightings and of course that slows us down. We have to take those seriously and rule them out. Basically, we have some uh
some more evidence turned over to the FBI. Were waiting for a report on thatsome behavioral information so we just have to painstakingly go through everything and hope we can pick up on something and not miss something.
32:28
Bessie: One more real quick question,and it takes us back to Private Investigator Vilt. He said that uh
Vernalthe parents did not want him to offer the reward and said the reason offered and their reason is that you had advised against it. Is there any truth in that?
32:54
SB: Thats not true.
32:54
Bessie: Okay. Thank you.
32:56
TG: Boy that speaks volumes right there. What parent would not want national publicity for their child, and what parent would lie and say the police told us not to do that? That is not looking good. That is pretty, pretty bad. Sheriff Lynn Bowerman, as we spoke off the air, Im going to say it publicly. I think you are an incredible man. Like I said, you are very humble. You are very honest. You are doing the right thing by Deorr Kunz. You are working for himlooking for him, and he is a very lucky little guy to have you on his side. Thank you from everybody at Websleuths, and Bessie, you agree, right?
33:39
Bessie: Absolutely, thank you so much, Sheriff Bowerman. Good luck to you.
33:45
SB: Youre very welcome. Thank you for having me.
33:46
TG: Thank you, Sheriff, you take care now.
33:49
SB: You, too.
33:49
TG: Bye bye.
33:50
TG: Bessie, isnt he a great guy? I mean what a wonderful law enforcement gentleman. Hes a gentleman. He really is fantastic.
34:00
Bessie: He is a gentleman and very honest, and his candor was wonderful. I do sincerely feel, you know, that he is very dedicated, and probably, like I said, Deorrs best friend right now.
34:14
TG: Absolutely! And he was very careful, even after he said the parents were not truthful on some questions on their polygraph test, he didnt want to trash them. He didnt want to say, Yes, theyre suspects and you know, were going to go after them. He said, I want to make it clear not every single question did they fail. He was still trying to kind of point out the good that the parents did and to me thats fair, and I know that may make people angry, but thats very, very fair.
34:42
TG: In case youre just joining us, we just finished up a great interview with Sheriff Lynn Bowerman from the Deorr Kunz caseDeorr Kunz, Jr. He went missing I believe it was July 10, 2015 at a campground. He was there with his parents, his great grandfather and a friend of his great grandfathers, and when I say he went missing, he disappeared. He vanished. There is not a molecule of this child to be found. At first the parents, they were said to be cooperating. Everything was good. Everything was moving along and then their stories started to change it seems. They werent as truthful. We found out tonight that a private investigation had offered to put up a $20,000 rewardto have that put out nationally and Deorrs parents said to that private investigator, No, No, No the police told us not to. Well tonight we heard from Sheriff Bowerman that he never told Deorrs parents not to put that up. Who would do that? $20,000? Hell, yeah! You go nationwide. You go worldwide with that. Thats just obscene and ridiculous, and that, to me, Im sorry. That just
that just makes me crazy.
35:58
TG: But, Bessie, I want to talk a little bit about social media and the part of Websleuths. Sheriff Bowerman said he really didnt look at the threads, other people in his office did, however, but he didnt because he didnt want to go off on different directions. I firmly believe 100% thats going to be changing and I believe it will be changing this year because Websleuths is involved in a new docuseries and thats about all I can say, but I do believe this docuseries will change the way law enforcement deals with social media, and I am grateful and thankful that Websleuths can be a small part of that.
36:34
TG: Now, having said that, we have responsibility as owners or managers of websites or whatever not to let people run wild and say whatever they want. Its really easy to say something horrible about a human being when youre sitting behind a computer and the person is, you know, 7,000 miles away, but that person 7,000 miles away gets up in the morning having no idea that their lives are going to be turned upside down by people they dont even know on the internet. Thats why Websleuths is very, very, very careful when it comes to accusing people of a crime. In the beginning most people on Websleuths wanted to accuse Deorr Jrs parents of this crime. Because the Sheriff and law enforcement said they are not suspects, we did not allow that. We did not allow people to go there, and Bessie, tell us about that struggle. We have a few minutes left. If you can maybe tell us in about 90 seconds. How difficult is that?
37:33
Bessie: Well, we got a lot of flak for that. Personally, its really giving me headaches. I mean I see both sides, and I understand, you know, why people
members would be looking at the parents, and I understand their reasoningthe logic behind why they would consider them suspects, but then on the other side, what if they are wrong? Do we really want to do this, you know, we must
we have to err on the side of caution.
38:08
TG: Always.
38:08
Bessie: What if were wrong? What are we doing to these people if were wrong and it turns out theyre innocent parents? Do we really want to take that knife and twist it and turn it inside their backs if theyve already suffered the loss of a child? I think thats just horrible.
38:27
TG: It absolutely is.
38:27
Bessie: So I think he handled it very well and I would be
you know the way social media has grown and become more a part of
of these investigations and these cases, uh we have people inserting themselves and the public becoming involved in social media. I hope that well look at it and continue to look at it in this new light and realize the danger and the responsibility that we have to innocent
especially innocent parents.
39:05
TG: Absolutely, Bessie, and thats the key word thereresponsibility. Remember, you own your words. Now there is a law, and I believe it is still current that protects web site owners from people who come on and say horrible and nasty things. I dont care about that. To me, I would rather, like Bessie said, err on the side of caution. When you have a police force, a Sheriff saying these parents are not suspects, were not going to let you discuss it. However, there are exceptions to every single rule, and there could be a situation down the road where the Sheriff himself or herself is suspect in this case. Im not talking about Deorrs case, Im talking about a fantasy case down the road, and then we might change it. We might allow a little bit of it, even though the Sheriff might be saying, No, No, they didnt have anything to do with it. It all depends on the situation, but first and foremost, Websleuths needs to be responsible. We try our best. We dont always do it, and sometimes were wrong, but Ill tell you what. Try and go on another website where there arent any rules and see how quickly it dissolves into the name calling. In fact, if you go back and look at the old threads on Websleuths, go to Websleuths.com and search
I think they go back to 2003, even though the website started in 1997, I believe. You go back to those threads and Im mortified. I mean there are thread titles like, you know, So and So is a Complete Idiot, talking about a member of Websleuths. Its just shocking how far weve come, but weve had to come this far, and Bessie, there have been cases where people have been trying to discuss a parent or discuss somebody and theyve turned out to be totally and completely innocent, and thank God we didnt let them go there, right?
41:00
Bessie: Right! Absolutely! We saw that with Noah Chamberlin the past few weeks, and there was a time there, you know, when they werent finding the poor little baby and
you know
people were getting kind of tired and aggravated and frustrated because there was no progress, and we started to see a shift in the attitude. You know, you can see it in the post. You see the shift. Then one person kind of suggests it. Then it starts to pick up, and then it grows, and if you let it go, before you know, we would have had another full blown lynch mob. Lets go hang those parents. Of course, we know now, that would have been wrong. So again, its important to err on the side of caution and be responsible and a commitment to do no harm. And thats what I always say on Websleuths. People will make posts like, Well, you know WS can be liable blah blah blah and I always emphasize more than that theres a commitment to do no harm to the innocent.
42:09
TG: Exactly, and we dont always do that, Bessie, we dont, but we do our best. Certainly we never do it on purpose. We never purposefully set out to say something mean and nasty, right?
42:21
Bessie: Definitely not. Absolutely not. Its, you know, its a matter of reasoning. You have to make a judgment call here and there and I think we do a pretty damn good job of it.
42:30
TG: Our members are wonderful. I cant say enough about them. Theyre great people, but occasionally we do get the, you know, kind of out of sort member that weve been discussing that wants to trash somebody, and finally, I just want to leave you with this. Imagine one day you get up and you log onto Websleuths, and theres a picture of your house, there is, oh, your divorce papers, there is your tax return, perhaps a bankruptcy. Its all right there for everybody to see. Why? Because your neighbor two doors down turned out to be a serial killer and somebody decided to look at everybody in the neighborhood and see just how creepy everybody is because this person thought, Hey, this guy didnt act alone. I bet all his neighbors were in on it, because this guy forgot to take his medicine and decided to go crazy. It would be awful. Youve got to put yourself in the position of the person you are going to post about. You have got to put yourself there to understand how powerful your words truly are and nobody thinks of it. Nobody gives a second thought when they go on Facebook or say something rude and of course you can let go, its freedom of speech, blah, blah, blah, but, remember, your words have power. They can hurt people. Well be back next week with True Crime Radio. Bye Bye.
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