Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #5

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steelman said:
This is starting to take the tone of either a thrill killing or a robbery.......or maybe a little of both.

There's going to be two perps involved.......one driving, one controlling.

Victims items missing--- phone, wallet, car keys.
Per stryker57--- Cheryl's car was never moved after she parked it, that's good enough for me.

Now that the M.E. and Pickard have decided to release the cause of death after 6 weeks of "investigation", a conclusion that most of us could have arrived at in about 10 minutes or less, this indicates to me that this was an attack by a couple of individuals that are as much of a failure at murder as they are at life in general.

The plastic bag was used as a control mechanism. "If you behave and sit still, I'll let you get a breath of air. The harder you fight, the tighter I hold the bag". She could have been restrained by simply being put into a chokehold or being straddled and sat on. This would have resulted in very few defensive wounds as well as little to no bruising. This act would have been a team effort by at least two individuals, one driving, one controlling her and more than likely it occurred in a large vehicle such as a van.

If robbery was the motive, then obviously they didn't get much. That's another reason why this has the feel of a thrill kill, or better yet, somebody acting out something they watched in a horror movie. This wouldn't be the first time that a couple of psychopathic friends decided to kill somebody just to experience the adrenaline rush.

If you shoot someone, you leave behind evidence. If you stab someone, you leave behind evidence. If you smother someone....well, depending on the circumstances, there may be little evidence left. The plastic bag itself is the murder weapon. I'm sure after 5 or 6 days in the water, there wasn't any fingerprints left to lift from the bag. The cuts on her fingers may have come from grappling with the person holding it over her head.

When they pulled up next to the culvert and tossed her out, it was believed she was dead. She wasn't. Unconscious yes, but still breathing. Maybe a pinhole was torn in the bag, maybe it wasn't sealed completely around her neck, but she was still alive. Had the culvert been dry that day and no water running through it, she may have actually survived this attack. This is where the conflicting cause of death is stemming from, it appears to be both, but we all know it has to be one or the other. The bag over the head leans towards asphyxiation, the water in the lungs leans towards drowning.

There's two killers on the loose in Mountlake Terrace.....but good luck convincing the PD of that. Like I said three weeks ago, they are either going to file this under suicide or "undetermined." They're going to take the evidence they have and mold it and form it to fit a theory. In this case, suicide.

As has become standard operating procedure, in the press release yesterday, LE stated that efforts to look into her computer records and cell phone records were ongoing. Great !! If this was a random crime though, nothing is going to come from those searches. What you see is what you get. What you know, is all your're gonna know.
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how often do TWO perps commit a crime vs just one? why do you think it was two and not one? one person could have a knife or gun and easily make someone do what they want. i dont think its a robbery but i guess you never know. im leaning more towards personal vendetta or random. legally how can they say two causes of death??? unless they both caused organ failure at the same time somehow? but how would they know that?!
 
TTF14 said:
If Cheryl's belongings remain missing, I have trouble believing suicide. Even if she was thinking, "I want to make this look like a possible murder so that my family still gets life insurance money," why would she take the chance of someone seeing her walking to the culvert? If someone recognized her and stopped and said, "Um, Cheryl, where ya goin'?" that would likely thwart her plan, no?

But, if her hands were not tied and there were no defensive wounds/signs of a struggle/bruising, it makes murder seem less likely. Wouldn't she have put up some kind of fight if a bag was put over her head? WHAT EXACTLY ARE THESE CUTS ON HER FINGERS??? How about the blood on the interior of the car??

For me to believe suicide, there will have to be a combination of these things: her belongings have been found near her body, she did a computer search for suicide by exit bag (never heard this term until today), there was some kind of substance in her system, there was helium near her body (and really? she'd be walking down the road with a helium tank? Doubtful). Not necessarily all four, but at least 2 out of those 4. If none of those 4 exist, it's not suicide in my opinion.

I wish they'd release more specifics like what type of bag. Maybe it would trigger something in someone's memory.
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law enforcement better eventually address those questions :/ still irritated they havent addressed those! are they trying to come up with other evidence to release to public to support suicide theory so public will be more likely to believe cuts on fingers and blood supports suicide?
 
brandi said:
Local 4:30 AM broadcast on KIRO states the blood in the car was Cheryls and "animal"
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well thats just weird. this case gets weirder and weirder... :/ nothing is getting cleared up with release of info. pickard says we will understand why its held back! psh. no, we dont. we want honest answers. why would blood be from an animal and Cheryl? maybe two separate events? but really whats the chance its in the same area?
 
OC Sunshine said:
In reading and learning about exit bags...makes me think regarding both sides
Of the fact that gases or helium in bag can make you pass out QUICKLY.

If homicide, who would have easy access to the gases and know what to down? How long would helium stay in bag before they put it over persons head?
If suicide, she would be confused and not know where she ended up. Maybe she was originally just sitting on the side, nit even thinking that she would end up inside Colvert.
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If she committed suicide with the exit bag method using helium, there would have been helium found at the scene, and if done properly, yes she would have passed out quickly. The exit bag needed for that specific method (with helium or nitrous, usually helium from what I read) would require a tube of some sort into the bag and something hooked up to the helium. I don't think it's possible for her to have used helium and an exit bag, due to how it's done, there would have been evidence at the scene, like helium and some sort of tubing into the bag. She wouldn't have had enough time to go hide that stuff before unconsciousness set in. There are also suicides where people do suffocate themselves with a plastic bag over their heads, usually medication or alcohol is taken before they place the bag, so that it's less painful, and the Central nervous system is depressed, and the survival instinct to remove bag is inhibited, but there are always exceptions to that.

In terms of if someone used this as a homicide method, anyone can get helium at any place that sells balloons I'm pretty sure. A quick internet search and there's videos of an elderly woman showing how to do it in great detail, not going to post link but I watched video and found it informative for any questions I had and I think it would answer some of your questions about the helium staying in the bag and for how long, plus tons of other sites about how to do it, so anyone could have researched it and could get access to the helium if they wanted to. After reading more about it I don't think an exit bag with helium was used in this case either by Cheryl or a murderer, imo.
 
steelman said:
Not really surprising.

People buy groceries. People buy meat at the grocery store. Sometimes meat packages leak. Pork, beef, liver, chicken ......they all make a big mess if you put a bag of groceries in the seat next to you and one of the packages leaks. Sometimes cleaning up the mess is a big mess.

Household pets being carried around in the car that are injured or menstruating is another good source.

If the blood they found turns out to be animal blood, most likely this would be the explanation.

Her car was 20 years old. I'm sure it's carried a whole lot of groceries in the passenger seat through the years. Much of it maybe even recently.
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whats the explanation for her own blood being found in the same area?
 
brandi said:
Local 4:30 AM broadcast on KIRO states the blood in the car was Cheryls and "animal"
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My parents have cats, when transported they are in cat carrier. No blood is inside the cat carrier. Also animal blood was fresh enough and of substantial quantity to be able to smear with your hand.
 
sillybilly said:
This post lands at random.

Numerous broken quotes had to be repaired tonight and others posts were removed for back and forth bickering.

Watch your quotes as they are time-consuming to fix and make Mods very cranky.

STOP the bickering. This thread is dedicated to Cheryl ... not to individual attitudes towards other members. If you can't post respectfully at all times, then take a break.
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Bringing this forward, as it seems to need to be repeated. I believe rules are that we are not to quote from Facebook either.
 
stryker57 said:
My parents have cats, when transported they are in cat carrier. No blood is inside the cat carrier. Also animal blood was fresh enough and of substantial quantity to be able to smear with your hand.
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Perhaps she struck a cat or dog, and picked it up to bring to a vet, which precipitated the subsequent events. Does that seem plausible?
 
Grasping at straws here but is it possible that this was murder by a cult ? Some cults sacrifice animals and keep their blood. Sounds far stretched but maybe...I don't know
 
Oregonmama said:
Grasping at straws here but is it possible that this was murder by a cult ? Some cults sacrifice animals and keep their blood. Sounds far stretched but maybe...I don't know
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IMO…LE would have checked this out already and I am sure they know what type of animal. JMO
 
I wonder what other information is being held back that would make us better understand.

Frankly, there are bits and pieces that don't make sense.

Why let the public know about the blood in the car, but yet tell the public to be aware of your surroundings yet there is no danger?

I am still not grasping those details…

IMOO.
 
Can someone link to the Kiro release of the blood being a mix of Cheryl's and animal? I'm not finding it with a quick google search. Thanks
 
Dushi said:
Wow. I have just read through pages and pages and I will need to read them again.

I know many have weighed in but i do not understand how there can be two causes of death
Wouldn't one or the other cause death first? Not spontaneously?

It is obvious to me, (note.. To me) that LE really do not know how this happened, they seem to be on the fence. I don't feel a cover up. I feel they just don't know
They are still checking computer records etc. I expect they are looking for research done by Cheryl or correspondence.
They certainly are not sure there is anything random about any of this.

About Cheryls personal belongings. Where she was found and where she was put in or entered the culvert could be totally different areas .

My sincere condolences to the DeBoer Family
It is most difficult to lose a loved one, even more so when you can not make sense of it
I hope that you get all of the answers you require
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i agree and think they are still on the fence and waiting on more info like an official tox report and maybe a full analysis of all electronic records and correspondences Cheryl had as you stated. I just sincerely hope they continue to investigate this as a homicide and only stop if they have corroborating evidence that supports a suicide. If they still can't make a determination I believe a detective should remain assigned to the case and I firmly believe the police department should have an outside agency come in and review the case with fresh eyes. I also think the police department could have handled this better in terms of the statements they have released.
 
bessie said:
Perhaps she struck a cat or dog, and picked it up to bring to a vet, which precipitated the subsequent events. Does that seem plausible?
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Good thought, if she did strike an animal would there still be evidence of that somewhere on her car, like blood or fur? Made me think it also could be possible that a perp could have used an injured animal as a way to get into Cheryl's car by saying "can you help me my animal is injured and I need to get them somewhere fast" or maybe using an injured animal to approach Cheryl and ask her if she had anything in her car to help stop bleeding or something along those lines. It also could have been planted evidence. There are so many things in Cheryl's case that don't make sense to me at all.
 
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