I wish it were made clear in some way, which of their individual text messages they attempted to delete. If someone deleted the picture of fireside sausages for example, I would deduce they felt some guilt about it for some reason. I recall some mention of damning texts recovered from SS? You have to ask, why did they choose those particular texts to remove?
Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #16
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I wish it were made clear in some way, which of their individual text messages they attempted to delete. If someone deleted the picture of fireside sausages for example, I would deduce they felt some guilt about it for some reason. I recall some mention of damning texts recovered from SS? You have to ask, why did they choose those particular texts to remove?
CJPRINCESS
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Now, this s the original post from last night.
I was on last night and that's not what I got from that. I must not have been able to see the "text couldn't be published" part? But the pics were not made published either.
He said "view only" where you say "read only".
RandomName479
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Totally agree. If this was the law, I would easily and unequivocally find them both guilty of 1st degree. No question in my mind that the theft of the truck was planned by BOTH MS and DM and TB was killed during the commission of this crime. I'll sign your petition if you start one Kamille ......
Shouldn't be a factor? But the fact that it is known he is charged with 2 other murders is not to be taken into consideration? Like the jury aren't regular, normal people who have had access to the media in the last 3 years, during which the other charges were talked about and no publication ban in place. Not to mention, the jury lives in the local area also.... I would be hard pressed to find 12 people anywhere in Hamilton/Burlington/Oakville/Toronto who have not heard of the 3 murder charges against DM and 2 against MS.
Jury can be told to disregard the other charges, but in reality, they are human and have emotions just like you and I.
Just MOO
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There were a few other posts last night regarding these issues ... And "read only" to me means the same thing as "view only" ... Sorry if I was paraphrasing ... Anyhow, Adrian stated that he will publish those pictures ... Last night he said "maybe tonight" ... So I guess he didn't have time last night, but I think that he will publish them. Will post here when he does.
ETA: Six hours ago Adrian Humphreys tweeted "soon" with regard to Exhibit 144, which Abro said contains those pictures.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Just another thought.
Another thing that may have tipped Tim off as suspicious is that MS and DM claimed their friend dropped them off when they arrived at 9:05. Then not even 5 minutes later as they are pulling out of Tim's driveway, DM gets a text that the friend is back and didn't find the Tim Hortons?! That would be strange to me. It would take longer than 5 or 10 minutes to drop them off at the house, look for the coffee shop and already be back near the Bosma house.
That must have struck Tim as weird, IMO.
Another thing that may have tipped Tim off as suspicious is that MS and DM claimed their friend dropped them off when they arrived at 9:05. Then not even 5 minutes later as they are pulling out of Tim's driveway, DM gets a text that the friend is back and didn't find the Tim Hortons?! That would be strange to me. It would take longer than 5 or 10 minutes to drop them off at the house, look for the coffee shop and already be back near the Bosma house.
That must have struck Tim as weird, IMO.
canadiangirl
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Yes, the other charges are not to be factors in determining guilt here.
Before trial, I had spoken to people who have no idea the key details let alone DM and MS were charged in another murder. Or DM charged with his father's murder. Both coworkers and friends. All living and working in the GTA. Not everyone follows that closely.
Some know now because the trial is in the paper daily.
A guilty verdict cannot be handed down on emotion.
All comments are JMO unless stated otherwise
CJPRINCESS
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No need to be sorry
I'm hot and just slugged away in a horse barn all day and trying not to get too far behind here.We are all seeing these photo's in different ways. We are all in titled to have our opinions. I may have misunderstood Adrian Humphreys tweets but I did not see him say "read only" (I read view only) or anything about not being published because of "text content". Maybe once the pictures and any text content related to them are published, they'll be brought into a differnt perspective.
I questioned the photos a few discussions ago "are they MS'S camera pics/tags" or "taken off of the internet" as that may have brought me to the other side on this with others.
Tealgrove
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Charged is one thing....CONVICTED is a whole other kettle of fish.
We can't go around, convicting people of one crime just because they have been CHARGED with another crime.
What if MS doesn't get convicted for the "other crime"? Just because he's charged doesn't mean he's guilty. Right now I have no idea what evidence there is of anyone's involvement in the other crime therefore I can't heap this knowledge of the charge in another crime onto the current trial.
I'm not defending anybody here, but the charges relate to a different matter and have to be kept separate. The Jurors, whether they know about it or not, cannot use that knowledge to convict here.
It's just the way it is.
Just4TB
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Lots of variables in shade, lighting etc. of course, but here is this guy in a straight conversion to b & w in Photoshop.
Quite interesting. One further note, that also supports red turning light gray...
Most security camera pics that are B&W are colour daytime, but B&W in "night vision" mode. My DVR security cams flip to B&W below a certain light level.
The cameras are sensitive to the Infrared band, and the light source is infrared during B&W night mode.
Infrared sensitivity is close to the low frequency end of the visible spectrum (IR-ROYGBIV-UV), making red colours, which reflect more IR, seem brighter in an IR sensitive camera.
Here's a start on messages we know were deleted. From Molly Hayes on April 14, 2016, Michael Ryder, an expert in mobile device forensics and data recovery, was on the stand:
Seeing a series of messages sent from the iPad--but can't see who they were sent to. These are those 'orphaned' messages mentioned earlier.
As part of that Ryder says he can't confirm this is a conversation, or if these messages are related at all.
Seeing it on another device, again, provides that validation.
Crown says if jury sees this same convo tmrw on Millard's phone w the names, that's validation. Ryder agrees.
"Wutchya sayin homes" is first one. Next, incoming, is "eta 2:47"
Then "Wuts good then? I'm chillin outside waiting for some ppl and then Marlena's got work in a couple hours."
Then incoming "headed to Waterloo, figure out BBQ situation for this week." Then outgoing "k cuz then I need a lil bit before I can dip."
Those were sent/received on April 27, 2013.
Seeing another chunk of messages now, from May 3, 2013.
One of them says "missions and more."
These, like the last batch, had all been deleted from the device.
Now seeing messages from May 5, 2013. First one (incoming) says "yeaow, you up negro? Mission day."
Then we see 3 outgoing messages from iPad: "yo", "what's the word" and "link the celly."
One incoming at 1:01pm says "reaching you now, ete 20mins, bring change of clothes."
Then two outgoing: "my phones being retarded" and "link me when you back these ways."
Again, these had all been deleted from the device.
As part of that Ryder says he can't confirm this is a conversation, or if these messages are related at all.
Seeing it on another device, again, provides that validation.
Crown says if jury sees this same convo tmrw on Millard's phone w the names, that's validation. Ryder agrees.
"Wutchya sayin homes" is first one. Next, incoming, is "eta 2:47"
Then "Wuts good then? I'm chillin outside waiting for some ppl and then Marlena's got work in a couple hours."
Then incoming "headed to Waterloo, figure out BBQ situation for this week." Then outgoing "k cuz then I need a lil bit before I can dip."
Those were sent/received on April 27, 2013.
Seeing another chunk of messages now, from May 3, 2013.
One of them says "missions and more."
These, like the last batch, had all been deleted from the device.
Now seeing messages from May 5, 2013. First one (incoming) says "yeaow, you up negro? Mission day."
Then we see 3 outgoing messages from iPad: "yo", "what's the word" and "link the celly."
One incoming at 1:01pm says "reaching you now, ete 20mins, bring change of clothes."
Then two outgoing: "my phones being retarded" and "link me when you back these ways."
Again, these had all been deleted from the device.
It's an interesting question, but I think it is self evident that any arguments against premeditation in the texts benefits both alleged conspirators. Beyond that, I think there are more ways DM could be convicted of first degree murder based on premeditation. If you accept either the Crown's version or MS's version, he's guilty. More than MS he had the means and the motive: few if any for example have suggested that MS was alone in premeditating this murder, and not surprisingly there was no such version presented to a jury by anyone. No matter whose story or timeline you accept, MS was in the truck for a shorter time which reduces opportunity in a relative sense. Basically the only way DM is not guilty of first degree murder is if it was accidental or unplanned, which remains possible. So while the point is taken, speaking only about premeditation I can't really agree there is an equal or even set of possibilities and probabilities at play.
ETA: the pre-mission "all nighter" comments belong to DM alone, with some evidence that MM was not expecting MS to be out all night
XiolaBlueX
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Such a good point. However, I could be wrong but I was under the understanding that even if MS and DM had 'only' been planning to car jack the car from TB, but 'accidentally' ended up killing him and were in the possession of a weapon (or even using a choking from behind maneuver 'accidentally' resulting in death) for the purposes of disabling TB to drive away vehicle and steal it, it could lead to first degree murder.
One of my theories is that this is why MS is lying so much about much of some of the details, and denying knowledge of the gun (s) From the evidence it seems obvious to me that it was they were hoping to drive away with truck and key,instead of having to go back later with all of the obstacles that brings. This thought is definitely touched on in Dms letters to CN, regarding him not wanting to get charged with first degree murder, even knowing it would be hard to prove the aactual manner of death.
Also, quick note - In my opinion MS probably did arrange to sell off the gun(s), and would not want to rat out Squishy or whomever. In fact, I feel like he probably would have not testified (or said much) until he learned of DMs letters and seeming intentions to throw MS under bus.
overall, why mix in a murder with the stealing of a truck? They could have easily dropped off TB somewhere alive and well - what a heat score to *plan* on committing a murder while stealing a truck. That would be a really stupid plan. Sounds to me from MSs point of view at least, this was a armed robber/car jacking gone terribly wrong. (Perhaps hence the "I effed up" comments afterwards)
It would be interesting to know if individual messages were deleted, and when, or if entire conversation threads were deleted, and when.
And if the entire conversations were recovered or just some texts?
Its a lame excuse for sure but the time is short. Tim may have had bad feelings about the situation, but surely not enough to panic.
From what I understand, most, if not all, messaging apps only have a delete field (boolean, the msg has been deleted or not) and don't store deletion date. If multiple phone back ups have been made, both before and after deletion, it would be possible to get a span of time during which the deletion occurred.
Interesting side note, both AM and MH testified that they'd deleted relevant text messages due to being "scared" and "nervous" respectively.
DeepWoodsOff
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I agree with everything you wrote. The BBM part...we have the same challenge with DM's texts as we do with MS'. We don't know if he was only planning on stealing the truck and, if successful, was going to be working all night to strip it and get it ready for a paint job/switch out vins etc. There's still nothing there to definitively say he premeditated a murder. In my mind, when you take all of the evidence together (prepping the incinerator, bring a change of clothes etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.) it shows there was a lot of planning put into this. As I said, there is not doubt in my mind that this was planned and they both knew. My point (I think) is that if text messages of MS can be easily interpreted as meaning something less sinister, than we have to consider the same for DM. MOO
At this point I am going to wait for the closing arguments before trying to fit this into my head anymore than I have. I have a feeling the Crown's closing argument is going to tie their case together nicely while the Defense's closing arguments are going to be "My client didn't try to hide anything, everything was out in the open" and "My client told you on the stand that he didn't shoot Mr. Bosma" MOO
Arnie M
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Thank you Jen Darme !!!
I was always cautious about reading too much into the bench-sausages-saga because of what you quoted in your post ....
Seeing a series of messages sent from the iPad--but can't see who they were sent to. These are those 'orphaned' messages mentioned earlier.
As part of that Ryder says he can't confirm this is a conversation, or if these messages are related at all.
Thank you Jen Darme !!!
I was always cautious about reading too much into the bench-sausages-saga because of what you quoted in your post ....
Seeing a series of messages sent from the iPad--but can't see who they were sent to. These are those 'orphaned' messages mentioned earlier.
As part of that Ryder says he can't confirm this is a conversation, or if these messages are related at all.
CJPRINCESS
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How about the necklace picture? We didn't see that either. It was MM'S comment of almost disgust that made me think it was more then fine jewelry.
Paraphrasing here:
MS sends a pic of a necklace to MM and says "for your mother"
MM replies "MARK!!!"
Not the typical response I'd give my hubby for doing something nice for my mother.
Just an example of how things can get misread when not seen. It also may have well been a beautiful gold and diamond necklace or something awfully gross or something he was going to steal from a store.
Paraphrasing here:
MS sends a pic of a necklace to MM and says "for your mother"
MM replies "MARK!!!"
Not the typical response I'd give my hubby for doing something nice for my mother.
Just an example of how things can get misread when not seen. It also may have well been a beautiful gold and diamond necklace or something awfully gross or something he was going to steal from a store.
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