GUILTY HI - Carly Joann 'Charli' Scott, 27, pregnant, Makawao, 9 Feb 2014 - #4

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Mamamerced said:
Regarding SC's reaction/acting (hand over mouth, closing of eyes briefly, head shaking) when the evidence photos were shown on the TV screen, could SC see those photos from where he was seated?
Loio, Nikki?
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Yes. There is a monitor on the floor facing the Defense table. I sat in the middle where I could get a clear view.
 
CC Trial Day 1 Part 3 34:00- 35:00
Witness Dave Rasmussen, SC's supervisor at Mana Foods testifying as to the events or Tuesday, Feb 11, two days after Charli's disappearance.

Rivera: On that day, do you know if he stayed at work the entire day, or did he leave early?
Dave Rasmussen: He left a little early, um but, he wanted to leave earlier. I asked him to finish, you know, a few things that he wanted to, you know, to have me finish.
Rivera: So he requested to leave earlier and you had him stay and finish?
DR: Yes I had him stay to finish the project, the tasks he had left, yes.
Rivera: And did he tell you why he wanted to leave early?
DR: He said he wanted to go, um help look for Charli.
Rivera: Did he express any concern for her welfare to you?
DR: Uh… no.
Rivera: How ‘bout when he told you he was the father of her child, did he express any concern about the child?
DR: No. I didn’t see any concern, no.
 
Pua, my notes say the guardrail drag and pants were between MM 9-10 according to Loo's testimony.

I think. :(
 
PeterTosh said:
Just youtube Knoxville Girl....old story..Somethings never change
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Amazing song, PT. I'm a forever fan of folk songs and folklore, but I had missed that one. There's a whole genre called Appalachian murder ballads. I did some looking around the web to see if anyone knew the history, and found a great article tracing its evolution from Elizabethan England -- old story indeed -- and a real murder, to Appalachia. And there is an American murder story that fits it very well.
http://www.planetslade.com/knoxville-girl.html
It's long but if you like this sort of thing it's worth reading, so I'll just link it for those who are interested. Also a powerful female-sung version from 2013: http://lixianhantover.bandcamp.com/track/knoxville-girl
Theory behind the popularity is that "the devil" is in all of us. The story is indeed of a guy who gets a girl pregnant, and is pressured to marry her by her father, and he snaps. They used to call these songs gallows ballads. They would print up all 45 verses on a broadsheet and I guess sing them under the gallows while the condemned man was hung, verses written in the style of a confession made in prison just before being taken to the gallows. This was a real thing!
 
Kapua, the question about getting away with murder is stunning that he made it, and could be a nail in his coffin. OTOH, it would be better evidence of him planning something if he had asked it in private of a confidante, you know? One could argue that anyone really planning a murder would not call the question across the room to the co-workers. Maybe this was before he got serious about the idea, but it was there at the back of his mind and popped out in a joke of really poor taste.
 
PeterTosh said:
Just youtube Knoxville Girl....old story..Somethings never change
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Once in a great while, I jam with some bluegrass/country folk musicians. Next time, I will bring this song along. Thanks, PT!
 
puakenikeni said:
Kapua, the question about getting away with murder is stunning that he made it, and could be a nail in his coffin. OTOH, it would be better evidence of him planning something if he had asked it in private of a confidante, you know? One could argue that anyone really planning a murder would not call the question across the room to the co-workers. Maybe this was before he got serious about the idea, but it was there at the back of his mind and popped out in a joke of really poor taste.
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I think the prosecution opened strong and set the dark tone for the trial right away. I particularly wanted to capture these snippets of testimony from his co-workers.

People twisted enough to murder others often trip themselves up by doing things that make no sense to others. I find Ginseng's assertion that they get caught because they kill people that they have strong connections to very prophetic.

Listening to the testimony, I couldn't help imagining what it must have been like to work with him after Charli's case was reclassified and remembering the "joke".
 
Loio said:
Pua, my notes say the guardrail drag and pants were between MM 9-10 according to Loo's testimony.

I think. :(
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I think that would make more sense. The Youtube I'm talking about is Day 4, Pt 3, and at the 3 minute mark Rivera starts asking him about the helicopter search. He says mile post 18, multiple times.

Makai side Hana highway, guardrail, sheer drop of several hundred feet after a couple feet of vegetation. Drag marks under the guardrail, broken depressed vegetation like something fell on it. OK, maybe not an ocean cliff, because he tells the helicopter search to check the valley floor at the bottom of the cliff (10 minute mark), repeats MM 18 at 11 minutes. 13 min and they talk about the "repelling" done by the civilian searchers. Then the testimony switches to Nua'ailua ... but they said MM 18 over and over during the ten minutes.

Peter Tosh, the YouTube time references are in reply to your earlier request. :)
 
Kapua said:
I think the prosecution opened strong and set the dark tone for the trial right away. I particularly wanted to capture these snippets of testimony from his co-workers.

People twisted enough to murder others often trip themselves up by doing things that make no sense to others. I find Ginseng's assertion that they get caught because they kill people that they have strong connections to very prophetic.

Listening to the testimony, I couldn't help imagining what it must have been like to work with him after Charli's case was reclassified and remembering the "joke".
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Excellent points all. :) Agree about the good start, just this draggy pace of the Loo testimony is putting me to sleep, and Apo's objections (on purpose) keep them from telling the story and getting to the simplest points. Example: Rivera: "how did you become aware? Loo: I was informed of this information.
 
puakenikeni said:
Excellent points all. :) Agree about the good start, just this draggy pace of the Loo testimony is putting me to sleep, and Apo's objections (on purpose) keep them from telling the story and getting to the simplest points. Example: Rivera: "how did you become aware? Loo: I was informed of this information.
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Lol. It does get tedious but Apo gets to object as to lack of foundation because it's basically like saying, "How do you know Loo? What makes you an expert?" If Rivera lays the proper foundation of how Loo becomes an expert on the subject, it's not guessing. His testimony is more credible.
 
Loio said:
Lol. It does get tedious but Apo gets to object as to lack of foundation because it's basically like saying, "How do you know Loo? What makes you an expert?" If Rivera lays the proper foundation of how Loo becomes an expert on the subject, it's not guessing. His testimony is more credible.
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Yes, absolutely. I just keep praying for Rivera to get it down to where he can ask the questions without opening up a hearsay or lack of foundation question.

It's just painful that it is so hard to get out a simple narrative about how he went to the scene because he was told there was something to look there. Sheesh. The stakes in that are pretty much zip. There are important points that should be argued. I don't care why he went there. He's the lead investigator, going to all the places they find evidence. Doesn't make the evidence any more or less important or real.

Rivera: what do you notice about this scene depicted in the photo?
Loo: just the vegetation and the markers of the evidence found there.
could be not say, I notice two pieces of jawbone and clumps of red hair without another two questions to get there? Sigh.
 
Loio said:
Lol. It does get tedious but Apo gets to object as to lack of foundation because it's basically like saying, "How do you know Loo? What makes you an expert?" If Rivera lays the proper foundation of how Loo becomes an expert on the subject, it's not guessing. His testimony is more credible.
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Loio, isn't
that what Rivera has been doing these past 2 days with Loo, laying a foundation? Or should R have asked Loo specific questions to establish his expertise?
 
Part of the foundation Rivera is doing, of course, is not so much about Rivera but to authenticate those exhibit photos and get them admitted into evidence as to when and where they were found and any other relevant facts Loo can provide. Then he can show the photos to other witnesses and make statements about what they depict. Otherwise he would not be able to talk about what is in the photos or the recording or what have you.
 
Oops, I meant to say it's not all about Loo, but I typed Rivera instead, so that made no sense, sorry.
 
puakenikeni said:
I think that would make more sense. The Youtube I'm talking about is Day 4, Pt 3, and at the 3 minute mark Rivera starts asking him about the helicopter search. He says mile post 18, multiple times.

Makai side Hana highway, guardrail, sheer drop of several hundred feet after a couple feet of vegetation. Drag marks under the guardrail, broken depressed vegetation like something fell on it. OK, maybe not an ocean cliff, because he tells the helicopter search to check the valley floor at the bottom of the cliff (10 minute mark), repeats MM 18 at 11 minutes. 13 min and they talk about the "repelling" done by the civilian searchers. Then the testimony switches to Nua'ailua ... but they said MM 18 over and over during the ten minutes.

Peter Tosh, the YouTube time references are in reply to your earlier request. :)
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Here is a good MM reference https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1_TMofxo5IXQhscHhnLc5QBOtOmg&hl=en_US

Im going to have to agree with you about it being a bit confusing because MM18 is at the bottom of the valley floor. However the road up 4 miles to Pua'a Ka'a is very narrow and winding with a lot of one way only passages. That said perhaps MM 18 was the meet up spot because of space available to park and such.

I reiterate that when I did my search I saw the family's orange cone marking where SC told them he saw her last at about MM 21-22...however I dont imagine he would lead them to her. The cliffs here however to tend to fall back inland as they climb whereas the cliffs on the other side of Keanae (Haiku side) tend to drop off into the ocean.
 
PeterTosh said:
Here is a good MM reference https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1_TMofxo5IXQhscHhnLc5QBOtOmg&hl=en_US

Im going to have to agree with you about it being a bit confusing because MM18 is at the bottom of the valley floor. However the road up 4 miles to Pua'a Ka'a is very narrow and winding with a lot of one way only passages. That said perhaps MM 18 was the meet up spot because of space available to park and such.

I reiterate that when I did my search I saw the family's orange cone marking where SC told them he saw her last at about MM 21-22...however I dont imagine he would lead them to her. The cliffs here however to tend to fall back inland as they climb whereas the cliffs on the other side of Keanae (Haiku side) tend to drop off into the ocean.
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No, the 21-22 must be his red herring. Thanks for giving me the orange cone location again. I have a better mental picture of the spots now, asI spent quite a bit of time last night using Google Earth Pro to view the land contours. Also took a virtual Hana Highway drive in street view I have not been on the road in person for over fifteen years. The MM 18 would be good for meeting up, and the drag mark spot by drop of hundreds of feet can only be the road past the Wailua turn off. Wailua must be the valley floor the helicopter searched. A good amount of that stretch has rock wall curb instead of guardrail, so that narrows it down a lot to find guardrail with a drop and not with tall trees lining the rail. The elevation there is 5-600 feet.
 
For Nikki, re your notes, I watched again and Pt 2 at 24 min is where they crawl through the story. What happened was Loo was en route to MM 18 from Peahi, to look at the drag marks, when he got a call about a civilian find at Kaumahina State Wayside at MM 9-10, the blue jeans, which I think were also by a guard rail of Hana Highway. So he stopped at Kaumahina and then proceeded past Keanae to the area above Wailua valley floor. This was on Thursday, before the clothes were found near Paraquat's just before dusk. Air One helicopter came and searched by the MM 18-19 where the drag marks and depressed vegetation showed something had likely gone over, checking out the bottom of the long drop, but they found nothing and got low on fuel. Citizen searchers rappelled down but came up empty too.
 
puakenikeni said:
For Nikki, re your notes, I watched again and Pt 2 at 24 min is where they crawl through the story. What happened was Loo was en route to MM 18 from Peahi, to look at the drag marks, when he got a call about a civilian find at Kaumahina State Wayside at MM 9-10, the blue jeans, which I think were also by a guard rail of Hana Highway. So he stopped at Kaumahina and then proceeded past Keanae to the area above Wailua valley floor. This was on Thursday, before the clothes were found near Paraquat's just before dusk. Air One helicopter came and searched by the MM 18-19 where the drag marks and depressed vegetation showed something had likely gone over, checking out the bottom of the long drop, but they found nothing and got low on fuel. Citizen searchers rappelled down but came up empty too.
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Maybe she got caught on some branches. I think she went over that edge and I think she's still there.
 
Wow, would that not be amazing if she were found.

That is on the way to or from Nahiku.
 
He was sloppy and accidentally left all that evidence?
Or he tried to make it look like a serial killer did it? He led everyone out there on purpose? And thought no one would believe he could have done it himself because he's a vegetarian baker and loves dogs?
 
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