Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

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Sutton said:
This 2003 article by Liam Bartlett reads, Police believe they're hunting an offender responsible for the murder of at least four young women
Click to expand...

I can confirm from an INSIDE source... that there are FOUR murders attributed to CSK.
 
I don`t like the windmill @ Millar Rd one Little bit. But then Beelair lakes & all others are a bit spooky hey.
 
delbertGrady said:
https://itunes.apple.com/au/podcast...0/RSv_NsMxI46IEZfqLmqGfxFydN49-BXmdmVojLj7MYs

casefile true crime podcast episode about the CSK.
Click to expand...

Was there anything of interest on this podcast?

I had a quick listen and noted;

Time was spent talking about the "clari-vouyants" who pestered DS. Irrelevant filler.
It said the police considered the taxi may not have seen SS and drove off without picking her up and therefore she could have been their longer. This is highly unlikely.
It said JR went to Iona.


I don't want to nitpick but the webcast provider doesn't have the same knowledge as what is on this very board. It's a good webcast for a crime enthusiast (their target market) but doesn't really deliver for people who have a deep interest in this case.

I might listen to the rest bit by bit and see if there is anything else of note.
 
Bartholemeus said:
Was there anything of interest on this podcast?

I had a quick listen and noted;

Time was spent talking about the "clari-vouyants" who pestered DS. Irrelevant filler.
It said the police considered the taxi may not have seen SS and drove off without picking her up and therefore she could have been their longer. This is highly unlikely.
It said JR went to Iona.


I don't want to nitpick but the webcast provider doesn't have the same knowledge as what is on this very board. It's a good webcast for a crime enthusiast (their target market) but doesn't really deliver for people who have a deep interest in this case.

I might listen to the rest bit by bit and see if there is anything else of note.
Click to expand...

Nothing new for us, but for someone wanting a quick overview of the case it's quite good. haha yes well he maybe he hasn't heard the word clairvoyant before, I can forgive that.

He he also says that police do have the CSK's DNA, which he would have believed to be true as it has been reported in the media. It may be true,
 
delbertGrady said:
casefile true crime podcast episode about the CSK.
Click to expand...

Snipped. Yay! Thanks for posting this.

Bartholemeus said:
Was there anything of interest on this podcast?

I had a quick listen and noted;

Time was spent talking about the "clari-vouyants" who pestered DS. Irrelevant filler.
It said the police considered the taxi may not have seen SS and drove off without picking her up and therefore she could have been their longer. This is highly unlikely.
It said JR went to Iona...
Click to expand...

Snipped. I agree with you that it was unlikely Sarah was still on the corner, but the driver didn't see her. Even if it was dark, wouldn't he wait for 2-3 minutes, and wouldn't she wave or walk towards him?

The host says Jane went to Iona, but later in the shoe says Jane and Sarah went to the same school at one point. This could indicate Jane changed schools. Idk.

Here are some other things, while not new info, were interesting:

• Jane's time of death was determined by the life cycle of bugs found on her body

• Sarah worked for an engineering firm (wonder what his source is on this)

• LW didn't get his job at Main Roads until after he moved out the second time (which was in June of 1997). (So what did he do in between 1987-1997?)

• CSK took Karrakatta's clothes and left her on the ground of the cemetery. Jane was found nude. Police searched Steve Ross's house for clothes in 2004. So is the killer worried about trace evidence or is keeping these as souvenirs or does he like womens' clothes?

I like this podcast, and listen to it regularly bc the cases are not discussed as much elsewhere. Also, I love the Australian accent (I think all Americans do).
 
Also, here are some aspects of the offender's profile that were mentioned:

* Lived near Claremont
* White, 25-35
* Unremarkable in appearance
* Social and clever
* Above average IQ
* Organized
* Used to dealing with women
* Able to hold his own in social situations
* If single he would have a history of dating women
* If married he would be able to uphold the appearance of being a good husband
* Mobile in both work and leisure
* Good hygiene
* Well educated
* Would drive a newer model car
* Car would be spotless
* May have contacted police to offer help
* Would possibly have visited Jane's disposal site before she was found, and spent time there
* Very possibly visited Jane's disposal site as as an onlooker after she was found
 
Sutton said:
Snipped. I agree with you that it was unlikely Sarah was still on the corner, but the driver didn't see her. Even if it was dark, wouldn't he wait for 2-3 minutes, and wouldn't she wave or walk towards him?
Click to expand...
2am. Go home beacon comes on. As soon as a taxi arrives she would have walked into the open. I think it's unlikely she fell asleep during that period.

I also don't think it's that dark but I guess it depends on the moon and cloud cover on that particular night. The Christchurch Centre (right next to the phone box) is a white building and well lit up. That would cast light across the road to where SS was. Also consider 3 guys in a car saw he easily.

The host says Jane went to Iona, but later in the shoe says Jane and Sarah went to the same school at one point. This could indicate Jane changed schools. Idk.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure she went to Rosalie Primary and then straight to HSHS.

Here are some other things, while not new info, were interesting:

• Jane's time of death was determined by the life cycle of bugs found on her body

• Sarah worked for an engineering firm (wonder what his source is on this)

• LW didn't get his job at Main Roads until after he moved out the second time (which was in June of 1997). (So what did he do in between 1987-1997?)

• CSK took Karrakatta's clothes and left her on the ground of the cemetery. Jane was found nude. Police searched Steve Ross's house for clothes in 2004. So is the killer worried about trace evidence or is keeping these as souvenirs or does he like womens' clothes?

I like this podcast, and listen to it regularly bc the cases are not discussed as much elsewhere. Also, I love the Australian accent (I think all Americans do).
Click to expand...

- I thought SS working at an engineering firm was common knowledge?

- How did the pod-caster know she was nude? Is this common knowledge?

- On the watch. There has been talk about the watch. The most likely reason it was found a short distance from the body is animals removed a hand and with it went the watch.

Other thoughts;

I listened to the rest of it. There some stuff there that while irrelevant, shows some research was done (i.e. what poem CG's Mum read). Where did they get their information from? How did they get the Iona bit wrong?
 
Bartholemeus said:
2am. Go home beacon comes on. As soon as a taxi arrives she would have walked into the open. I think it's unlikely she fell asleep during that period.

I also don't think it's that dark but I guess it depends on the moon and cloud cover on that particular night. The Christchurch Centre (right next to the phone box) is a white building and well lit up. That would cast light across the road to where SS was. Also consider 3 guys in a car saw he easily.

I'm pretty sure she went to Rosalie Primary and then straight to HSHS.



- I thought SS working at an engineering firm was common knowledge?

- How did the pod-caster know she was nude? Is this common knowledge?

- On the watch. There has been talk about the watch. The most likely reason it was found a short distance from the body is animals removed a hand and with it went the watch.

Other thoughts;

I listened to the rest of it. There some stuff there that while irrelevant, shows some research was done (i.e. what poem CG's Mum read). Where did they get their information from? How did they get the Iona bit wrong?
Click to expand...

I though it was common knowledge that Jane was naked and ciara was partially clothed. I also read alot that all the girls went to Iona and only a while back saw you write that Jane went to HsH. I think that's a common mistake. iDK..there's so many 'facts' about this case that are disputed.
Jane had a navel ring and the killer didn't take it according to the podcast.
Ciaras dad making a public announcement that an arrest was expected soon... Did that really happen?
I think the podcaster has definetly read DM's book.
a while back I went to a public library(Sorrento) and just randomly noticed on the shelf that ciara's mum has written a book called ciara's gift. maybe that's where he found out about the poem.. I didn't read the book so I don't know what's in it. I think the podcast is made by a Perth local, I noticed a song by Perth band the decline was played in another episode, and also he did the Pamela Lawrence Ep, I was hoping he would also do one about the CSK.
he didn't mention Peter weygers... But did mention SR.. Wonder why?
I liked it, and maybe it will help bring some fresh attention to the case.
 
Sutton said:
Snipped. Yay! Thanks for posting this.



Snipped. I agree with you that it was unlikely Sarah was still on the corner, but the driver didn't see her. Even if it was dark, wouldn't he wait for 2-3 minutes, and wouldn't she wave or walk towards him?

The host says Jane went to Iona, but later in the shoe says Jane and Sarah went to the same school at one point. This could indicate Jane changed schools. Idk.

Here are some other things, while not new info, were interesting:

• Jane's time of death was determined by the life cycle of bugs found on her body

• Sarah worked for an engineering firm (wonder what his source is on this)

• LW didn't get his job at Main Roads until after he moved out the second time (which was in June of 1997). (So what did he do in between 1987-1997?)

• CSK took Karrakatta's clothes and left her on the ground of the cemetery. Jane was found nude. Police searched Steve Ross's house for clothes in 2004. So is the killer worried about trace evidence or is keeping these as souvenirs or does he like womens' clothes?

I like this podcast, and listen to it regularly bc the cases are not discussed as much elsewhere. Also, I love the Australian accent (I think all Americans do).
Click to expand...

i want to know which engineering firm sarah worked for.. For anyone that worked there it must be obvious who the MAP suspect is.

yes I was also surprised that LW only just started at main roads In 1997.

My my guess the CSK burns the clothes or gets rid of them somehow, not kept as souvenirs.
 
http://unaglennon.com/extracts/waiting/

"By late afternoon I receive confirmation that it is Ciara’s body. Later in the evening I answer the phone. A low haunting voice slowly utters the word ‘dead’ and then there is silence. Fear grips me as I feel the hair on the back of my neck slowly rise and a chill runs through my body. Later the police trace the call to a fourteen-year-old boy."

BBM this makes me wonder if the phone call made to Mr. Spiers was also traced.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-ni...-never-give-up-search-for-sarah-spiers/#page1

"But one phone call in particular has stayed with him - the only one he believes is genuine - and which either came from the killer or someone who knows them. It was at 2am on a Sunday morning shortly after Sarah went missing. The caller asked him, "Are you Sarah's father?" Don won't give details of what the man said but he still believes it wasn't a hoax. The caller gave him a location - 5600ha of dense land and bush. Don went there but the size of the location and the dense vegetation meant looking was "hopeless". I would like them to somehow get in touch with me and verify what they had to say because that has haunted me for 19 years," he said.
 
That article strongly suggests they have Karra DNA.

Although there were reports Jane was seen walking up the highway I don't believe this would be the case. I think if she did walk that far then there would be a number of other witnesses. I also think the CSK's patch was the perimeter of the Claremont precinct and she entered a car one way or another close to the Conti.
 
Peter Kurten said:
Thanks for the article Sutton.

The article in question is called: The Spatial Behavior of US serial killers

The distances recorded in the table are quoted in Miles.
Click to expand...

Thanks. The study found (for those who haven't read it) that killers initially choose their victims close to home and dispose of them some distance away. But as they kill more victims, they begin dumping them closer to home (first victim disposal site was an average of 25 miles/40 km from home, while the tenth victim victim disposal site was an average of 0.4 miles/1.5 km from the killer's home).

I don't know if we can apply this to the CSK, as we don't have all the information (and he doesn't have that many victims). But it doesn't hurt to give it a try.

The study also found that using the initial encounter site was a much better predictor of the killer's residence than the disposal site,

"These results certainly support the view that investigative efforts should go into interviewing people within the neighborhood from which victims go missing in order to pinpoint precisely the address or location where the victim may have been last seen.

(Other posters who read the study might want to skip to the very end and read the conclusions...I wish I'd done that.)
 
Bartholemeus said:
I'm pretty sure she went to Rosalie Primary and then straight to HSHS.



- I thought SS working at an engineering firm was common knowledge?

- How did the pod-caster know she was nude? Is this common knowledge?

- On the watch. There has been talk about the watch. The most likely reason it was found a short distance from the body is animals removed a hand and with it went the watch.

Other thoughts;

I listened to the rest of it. There some stuff there that while irrelevant, shows some research was done (i.e. what poem CG's Mum read). Where did they get their information from? How did they get the Iona bit wrong?
Click to expand...

SS's place of employment has never been confirmed. BSD engineering is in a comment somewhere. Most sources say 'secretary', but a few sources say 'legal secretary'. I've been told that Debi Marshall is the source of the BSD info.

The podcast has a researcher. And the website lists their sources for each episode. I went through the 15 listed for the CSK, and many of the facts mentioned in the podcast are not in those sources. So I'm thinking their researcher might have contacted Debi Marshall?

At least one of the sources they used says Jane was nude and Ciara was dressed.

I've never thought of that reason for why Jane's watch was a distance from her body. It makes a lot of sense, especially if we knew those bones had been scavenged.

No clue about Jane and Iona vs Hollywood. I always thought Hollywood. Debi Marshall says Iona in one part of the book and Hollywood in another.
 
Bartholemeus said:
...It's unlikely her body was in the car when it was dumped so where is it? Was it the killer who put the car into the ocean or someone else?...
Click to expand...

RSBM. I've read that the front seats of the vehicle were completely missing, and only the back seats remained.

1. I don't remember the vehicle model right now, but didn't it have two individual front seats (as opposed to a single bench seat, like in older model cars)?

2. How would one remove the front seats from a vehicle? That sounds difficult.
 
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