NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #2

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Amazing graphics and information sleuthers. Thank you to all and newcomers too, welcome. I've been looking at that dark patch for hours, and I'm kinda convinced now there is somebody lurking there. As was noted upthread, whomever it was, best I can make out has a bent elbow and has a device in his hand. He may have been hard for Karina to see. He may have had the device in a way where she was deciding whether it was aimed at her or not as she ran. Best I can make out, the figure's arm follows in the direction of Karina with the device as she stops looking in that direction, most of all. Will try to post the best versions of the figure I can edit to the point it's more clear to see. Sorry for way out there quality of this. From here CWD

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Off Topic

That's chilling news about Maurice Jones, 44, found burned in the trunk of his car. Thank you for the update madamx. May he rest in peace. :rose:
Very creepy! I too am the type to see people in clouds etc lol. So I can not fully get my eyes focused sometimes when someone sees it. But with this photo I do see a man. Also a black hat almost like the one in the sketch? If I am focusing on the point everyone else is.

Also, now that I know this footage is from 161st she would of still had to turn the corner onto 83rd before needing to move over to the left side to enter the park. So her looking 3 times to her left makes me think she is either very cautious runner or she heard or saw something.

Now...some are saying that if she heard or saw something she wouldn't have entered the path. I think she still would of. Since many fisherman exit from the weeds there to their cars and homeless are known, it may not have seemed "alarming" to Karina, but to an outsider it would.

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Great info Rocky.. got my wheels turning.. another thing that would of blocked any noise from anyone hearing her scream (if she did) would be the highway right across the park. The time it happened was around rush hour when there is a lot of traffic. And yet another thing that dawned on me that August day was really hot here in NYC so prob the people that were home were inside with the windows closed and the air on. There is the water right on the other side which makes noise as well as the wind blowing through the reeds and trees..

Sound usually travel very well across water though. You can hear two peoples full conversation just speaking at normal level from about .5 miles away across water if your downwind of them. So I guess it would depend on the direction of the wind to know which direction any screams could have been carried across water.

But in NYC I doubt anyone would think twice about a distant scream who direction they couldn't pinpoint.
 
I don't mean to be depressing, but it seems no one saw this or they would have claimed the reward. And if her killer keeps quiet, no one will ever know.....unless they get his DNA later from a new crime? Does anyone know if his DNA turned up relatives they could interview? I'm sure they would have if they could have so probably not. I think that killer was alone ( one DNA not two) and is long , long gone.
 
I don't mean to be depressing, but it seems no one saw this or they would have claimed the reward. And if her killer keeps quiet, no one will ever know.....unless they get his DNA later from a new crime? Does anyone know if his DNA turned up relatives they could interview? I'm sure they would have if they could have so probably not. I think that killer was alone ( one DNA not two) and is long , long gone.
Nancy Grace stated on Monday night that they are now running his DNA to do a familial match. This may take some time. They will have to track down relatives and the match has to be strong for it to be an immediate family member. He may have a 2nd cousin who is in the system and they may not even know each other. It gets tricky it seems. But I'm not sure what source Nancy got this info from.

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I see an elephant.☹️


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I can't seem to see anything in the video. All I see is trees ruffling in the wind. Even when I try not to focus on Karina and just the background. I'm sure LE has pulled apart every bit of this video and I'm thinking there was more footage from the other homes on 83rd Street (I see a few cameras on street view) So I'm thinking LE released to Crime Watch Daily only a small time frame of footage that family had to have agreed on as well.

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For those who don't remember, here are the two sketches:

Morningside Heights (Manhattan) subway incident:
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20...rape-woman-morningside-heights-subway-station

Sketch in Karina's case (not named suspect, but someone LE wants to speak with):
http://www.amny.com/news/karina-vetrano-case-nypd-releases-sketch-of-possible-witness-1.12247253

The subway attack in Manhattan happened on a subway line that does go to Howard Beach.

Are they connected? WE DON'T KNOW, of course. That's the question some of us (not all of us) wonder.

jmo

I'm convinced with high probability the Morningside Heights rapist is the killer of Karina Vetrano. Look closely. Almost a perfect match in facial features.
1b913eee5d4bbcd85dfcd4522486dc9e.jpg



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Graphic warning:

A thought came to me about the "not finishing" part of the rape - the detail about LE not finding semen on her.

What if Karina kicked him in the groin really, really hard?

That would not only hurt, but anger him. Looking at her legs on the video, she was strong! LE has said, IIRC, that the attack escalated because she fought so hard. Perhaps she fought so hard in one particular area, and that escalated the violence dramatically. And maybe that's why he threw her shoe? Maybe he grabbed her foot that kicked him, tore off her shoe, and threw it?

She was brutally raped without semen. Perhaps he raped her with something else - his fist or a stick? Sorry for being graphic.

If this kick to the groin happened, surely his pain was felt for awhile? I'm female so I don't know how long an injury like that would hurt, but I would think he might be walking a little funny for awhile...in addition to being ANGRY after this crime. I assume some rapists feel elated, relieved, or remorseful....but I envision this guy very angry if he was injured to the point of not being able to function in the rape.

Surely someone who knows him would've noticed not only scratches but perhaps him hunching a bit in pain, scowling, angry. I have a feeling that anger would stick around for awhile - longer than the scratches on his skin. Perhaps the anger flares up whenever the story hits the news again, like yesterday with the video release.

This worries me very much because it's possible he'll want another victim to prove he can do it.

Total hunch, speculation, thinking aloud.

JMOpinion
 
I'm convinced with high probability the Morningside Heights rapist is the killer of Karina Vetrano. Look closely. Almost a perfect match in facial features.
1b913eee5d4bbcd85dfcd4522486dc9e.jpg



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I think so too - and the second sketch is two years after the first one. I think the sketches show the effect of time.

I don't know for sure, OF COURSE, but I think it's a strong possibility this is the same person.

The B/C subway line where the attack occurred in Manhattan runs to Howard Beach, FWIW.

jmopinion
 
I haven't commented on this in a few days. I have been trying to keep up. I see all the zoomed images but that's zooming in on the guy in the white shirt who appears to be looking at Karina and moving around, correct?

Yes the guy - or whatever it is - that was in the brush in the background of the video of Karina as she jogs west along 165th Ave. She turns her head to look toward that spot toward the end of the clip. Here's a link to the Google Map that shows where she was when the video was shot: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1HkSGGqflWAeEDxY-7tSIQAignsw
 
Hi Everyone, I'm new to Websleuths. I have been following this case since it happened. It is truly tragic and I hope they find this animal soon.
For some reason I just don't believe this was random, I have so many questions that I would love to get answered. Mainly did she run at the same time daily?.
It seems unlikely someone followed her and then waited for her. I think if she had a regular pattern then maybe they knew she would be running her route at that particular time.

They clearly waited to attack until she was deep into her run based on where her body was found matching the location of the high weeds. Apart from DNA they have nothing? seems he thought this out, IMO criminals are sloppy on the first go if its unplanned in the heat of the moment. They almost never think of everything to cover their tracks. I think he would have messed up somewhere. He clearly must have been level headed, no one noticed anyone exiting anywhere which mean he got away calm enough to not draw attention to himself. This person clearly knows the area well.

On another note as it relates to the 2nd interview for Chris Hansen with the friend you posted, did you notice it said she texted at 5:36pm right before she was seen on video. Does this mean that was the last time Karina responded and she was not exting when he rolled up on her?
If so that would mean she was still running when he came up behind her.

I think about her running and how desolate that area looks on the video and commend her for her bravery because it takes a fearless woman to run that path, she clearly lived her life the way we all should be able to and want to. RIP Karina I always says God sees and knows all, justice will be served, one way or another.

Welcome to WS :welcome:

Like you, I had similar questions - seems always the way in these cases; so many things we'd like to know.... here's a list I posted back thread:
: so many little "Colombo-like" details we are missing in this case, such as the above as well as -
>did she normally jog back over the same path she went out on, and if so did attack happen as she ran out, or returned back.
>did she normally text and listen to music at same time.
>did she keep one ear bud out to hear surroundings.
>when she texted did she slow down or stop.
>how fast a jogger/runner was she.
>size of rock used.
>was it determined where the rock was taken from, at the scene of someplace else.
>was there any sign in the weeds of a place where someone was hiding out, such as a small clearing and path to it.
>did she keep her hair up or down (pony tail) when jogging.
>how well was crime scene preserved.
>any foot prints, bike/tire marks.
>what do overview photos show of the area.
>did she break teeth biting assailant.
>no mention of DNA under her finger nails.
>what kind of DNA was found on her - some types of DNA can reveal certain traits.
>how long had she been doing this jog alone for (days, weeks, etc.).
 
Yes the guy - or whatever it is - that was in the brush in the background of the video of Karina as she jogs west along 165th Ave. She turns her head to look toward that spot toward the end of the clip. Here's a link to the Google Map that shows where she was when the video was shot: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1HkSGGqflWAeEDxY-7tSIQAignsw

Thanks for the map! Appears she sees him in the brush by the parked car and continues on.... now if he got in a car to follow, seems a place to park to intercept her would be along 78th St.... and notice the clump of trees by where she was attacked - they always seems a good hiding place to wait for her....
 
KV om Y1.jpg The figure seems to my eye to be under the first two squares (starting from the left side). If you open the image and expand it, and see the figure, I'll get you some cool aid.

Screenshot 2016-09-14 at 10.13.10 AM.png same figure here, zoomed in

KV OM Y2.jpg same figure here, filtered, which I learned is what I'm doing upthread. From CWD, here

The proportions seem right to me for it to be a man in the distance, not grass, or a big stump. Light reflections would have me believe he has objects that reflect light around him, seems especially the case if you go high contrast.

Thank you Forager, for this map:

KARINA VETRANO CASE MAP

Could you please attach Lauranyc83's aerial image and the images that Kimi posted of Chief Det. Boyce graphics, if possible. I see zooming in that you've marked the spots for all the items found. Much appreciated.
 
Didn't they find a condom? Sorry if that's already been explained. Also: if he was having sex and she was alive but screaming and he strangled her to quiet her then she was dead....he might not have been able to "finish" with s deceased girl?
 
Good questions. I understood her normal pattern was to run with her rugged protective father. I think that would eliminate it being a planned attack ? Because it was rare that Dad was not by her side? Ps why is the person in sketch wearing a hat on such a hot day?
 
Good questions. I understood her normal pattern was to run with her rugged protective father. I think that would eliminate it being a planned attack ? Because it was rare that Dad was not by her side? Ps why is the person in sketch wearing a hat on such a hot day?

Why is he wearing the hat? Because he is the rapist/murderer and is trying to disguise his look though it's going to make him stand out like it did. And now it shows he is the same rapist from a few years ago.


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Why is he wearing the hat? Because he is the rapist/murderer and is trying to disguise his look though it's going to make him stand out like it did. And now it shows he is the same rapist from a few years ago.


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BBM

Well, actually, the hat doesn't show they are the same person. It shows that they could be the same person.

Unless you have a fact that proves they are the same? If so, please post a link to it.
 
In the video of her running, is it just me, but it looks like where she was staring at the brush was deliberately blurred out!?

From the friend she was texting with, we now learn the last time they texted was before she had gone onto the weeds trail - throwing allot of what we wrote about out the window...

Looking at her running in the video, she appears to run fast.
 
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