Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #6

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In the Liam Bartlett interview with PW.. both PW and LW appear that they may be right handed?
 
Very old article for anyone interested. Found here:

http://googleweblight.com/?lite_url...466781&sig=AF9NedmbaG7ZqQXVdnS7gxChYNDS4_cMRw


The family of Julie Cutler once thought by police to be the first victim of the Claremont Serial Killer, say they finally feel able to erect a graveside plaque accepting her death.
It has been 20 years since 23-year-old's car was towed from the surf at Cottesloe beach two day's after she left a staff function at the Parmela Hilton Hotel around midnight on June 20, 1998.
Her family hope technology will be able to analise clues left in the car by the killer.
Rachel Cutler was 10 when Julie, her half sister went missing.
She said police had told her father that they suspected Julie had been taken by the same person who abducted three women from the Claremont Hotel in the 1990's.
"Julie disappeared seven years before the first Claremont abduction," Rachel said this week.
"The connection was mentioned by police, who said the case was being looked at in association with the Claremont Serial Killings.
"But the details of what was said during those conversations is not for us to say, it is up to the police.
The Cutler family will hold a memorial mass at Julie's former school Iona Presentation College, next month.
"We haven't had a mass for Julie before," said Rachel. "We were always hoping a body would turn up - but because it has been 20 years now, we have decided to accept that we won't have a body to bury."
Rachel said the family hoped new evidence would lead to the perpetrator being caught.
"With advances in technology, we hope DNA can be obtained off cigarette filters that were found in Julie's car," she said.
"They were from a type of cigarette we know Julie didn't smoke and it might prove to be the lead we need."
"Maybe someonewho suspected something at the time will have the courage to come forward and contact Crimestoppers."
A plaque for Julie will be erected at her mother Robyn's grave at Karrkatta cemetery.
Mrs Cutler died from cancer when Julie and her sister Nicole were young girls.
Their father Roger remarried and had four more children - Rachel, Rebecca, Alexander and Jessica.
"But mum and dad talk about her often as does Nicole - they were around the same age and very close, and had grown up together. Nicole has four kids of her own.
"My father has been affected most by what happened."
"I think fathers feel they are the protectors of their children , especially their daughters -and as Julie was the first daughter, he was very fond of her.
"When things like this happen you feel quite powerless."
Rachel said the family never believed Julie would be found alive.
"When she disappeared we feared the worst because it was completely out of character," Rachel said.
"She was consicentious person and wouldn't have put anyone through what my parents and family have gone through.
"We had only just moved to Kalgoorlie from Perth and Julie called dad and told him she was planning to come up for a month."
"She had been saving uop to go travelling after graduating from WAIT (now Curtin University) where she majored in English literature, with a minor in theatre arts."
During the Claremont murder investigations, it was reported that Julie had attended classes at the University with a man police said was their prime suspect.
"We did hear that but didn't think much of it," Rachael said. "She went through classes with hundreds of people, so I don't know if thats relevant.
"Mum and dad didn't want to worry us about it at the beginning.
"They didn't tell us what had happened but a couple of day's later we saw a story on the news that said Julie's car had been dragged out of the surf.
"We asked mum and she said dad would tell us about it later. All he said was that she had gone missing and didn't know where she was. We were both old enough to surmise that she was dead.
"Because it was such a horrific thing to happen it made me aware, from a very young age, that bad things can happen to you.
"As a result, i think our parents were a lot more protective to the point of being overly cautious when we were growing up.
"When it came to Perth to go to University, I would call them and let them know if i was going out at night and I would call them when I got home."
The Cutler family have never spoken to the families of the three Claremont victims - Sarah Spiers, Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon.
"It was hard for us and I felt sad for their families," said Rachael.
"We didn't want to intrude on their grief and didn't contact them out of respect because we understood what a highly traumatic experience it is."
Julie and Nicole attend Iona Presentation College when the family lived in Perth.
Julie was at Iona between 1975 and 1982 where she did her TAFE and I thought the school would be the most appropriate place to have the memorial service," said Rachael.
"The school and the sisters have been very gracious towards us and we believe in the power of mass, so it will be a healing process for us.
"The plaque we are putting on the grave of Julie's mother means there will be a place where people can go and remember Julie.
"Over time the pain of grief isn't as strong and you learn to cope with it.
"The hardest times have been when we hear media reports of people going missing or a body being found, it brings back the emotions of 20 years ago.

by Romy Ranali, post.com.au
Click to expand...
 
Nugget77 said:
In the case of the police knowing he perpetrator then you may be right but say they don't?
Click to expand...

I think they would have checked. If Macro had to prioritise unanswered questions then right under "who is the CSK?" would be "Why did he stop?" and "where is SS?"

I think they would have checked all death certificates between CG's murder and 3 years later for men aged between 18 and 60 who lived in Perth. And eliminated them one by one. Not foolproof, but would likely pick something up if it were there.

I think they also would have checked the same demographic for who started a prison sentence during that 3 year period. Ditto people who got on a plane and didn't return.
 
Bartholemeus said:
The cons;

1. It would cause a witch hunt. Every person with that type of dog would be under the microscope from the public potentially affecting innocent people
2. If for some reason the hairs were not from the killers dog then the public would potentially be close minded and miss cues. "That guy doesn't have dog breed X therefore I will subconsciously miss the cues that a colleague/friend/partner/relative might be the killer".

The pros;

1. A witch hunt would mean WAPOL wold be much more aware of who all the people who owned dog breed X are. It might crack the case.



I'm no expert in detective work but a lot of cases seem to have gone cold and I wonder if WAPOL methods need to be overhauled? MM video should have been released no later than 2 years into the case IMO. Potentially they kept it in case they came across a POI and that POI denied being in the area. A tool to trap a suspect. But by that time they were red hot on LW and wouldn't have effected LW's case (except for maybe proving him innocent).


MoJoe - you're favoured POI is someone on Macro's list but not publicly ID'd. Do you think the CSK is also GR's killer?
Click to expand...

I think it would be worth revealing the breed because the dog would have died ages ago anyway.
 
Mo Joe said:
..because of the ongoing investigation and DNA testing..
Click to expand...

Lets say the CSK got into a bar fight after a night drinking, glassed a guy, the guy lost an eye and the CSK gets arrested for that crime and sentenced to jail, hence being incarcerated. Why would the police close the investigation/stop taking DNA samples when they have no idea the CSK currently behind bars is in fact the Claremont serial killer. Saying he is currently incarcerated doesn't mean he has to be in jail for the murders, he could be currently in jail for a thousand unrelated crimes which would make him inactive. It isn't uncommon for this to happen and the FBI states that there is a 90% chance the a serial sex offender will be incarcerated on an unrelated charge.

As for death then you are again making the assumption the police know the identity of the CSK. If they don't know who he is, they can't know he has died there for no reason not to continue the investigation.
 
Bartholemeus said:
I think they would have checked. If Macro had to prioritise unanswered questions then right under "who is the CSK?" would be "Why did he stop?" and "where is SS?"

I think they would have checked all death certificates between CG's murder and 3 years later for men aged between 18 and 60 who lived in Perth. And eliminated them one by one. Not foolproof, but would likely pick something up if it were there.

I think they also would have checked the same demographic for who started a prison sentence during that 3 year period. Ditto people who got on a plane and didn't return.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree on this, I'm sure Marco would have done something similar as to what you suggested but how does one determine someone is the CSK from simply having died after the killings stopped. The police have a list of deaths, lets take the deaths one year since the last murder of males aged 18 - 60 in a reasonable travel distance to Claremont you are looking at a list of about 500 - 800 (rough estimate could be more/less but based on Australian Bureau of statistics stats & WA births, deaths, marriages in 1998 almost 11k deaths total in WA) so from that list of 500 names, what jumps out to say "Hey i'm the CSK" I mean if in 1998 john smith died and on questioning his widow she mentioned he had a panel van, liked bondage and was a frequent visitor of the Claremont night club/pub district and would often disappear on weekends then you look into it but I'm not sure how police could determine such information if John smith (the CSK) died and from all appearances looked like your average upstanding citizen which is the case for many a serial killer.
 
If CSK is dead and police know it. How come detectives are still taking DNA samples? Police need to find that hospitality student who sounds like mystery man, and description by Steve Ross. Then find out if he is buddies of one the previous of POIs.

He may have left the country, or police haven't come across his DNA. Anyone going prison is DNA rolled for other crimes. There was those witnesses that phoned in, saying prior they didn't want their daddys' knowing where they were. Maybe $100000 if they call back, in the event of a conviction?

If the cops run TFN on the ATO database through hospitality in pubs nearby. White shirt - black pants

He may have been working at Freshwater Bay Yacht Club the time Denise wedding was supposed to be on.
 
CSK? said:
but how does one determine someone is the CSK from simply having died after the killings stopped.
Click to expand...
it's more about percentages and likelihood. Same as their investigation into taxi drivers. Can never be sure it's not a taxi driver but the likelihood has been reduced drastically.

I have no knowledge how they do this but I assume they have multiple lists. A taxi list, a dead list, a moved interstate list, a moved overseas list etc and a main list. All prioritised.

I assume the dead list prioritises on local men, men with petty crime and or sex records, age, car type, job history etc. I assume this list had periods of activity and inactivity. Maybe some early activity, back burner when LW was red hot and maybe had another crack or two when at dead ends.

Due to the prioritization I think a likely suspect would have been uncovered. The more they work that list (assuming it exists) the less likely the suspect is on it. I strongly suspect the CSK is a local man and any dead local men would have been looked at and ruled out.

I think it's unlikely the CSK is dead.






so from that list of 500 names, what jumps out to say "Hey i'm the CSK" I mean if in 1998 john smith died and on questioning his widow she mentioned he had a panel van, likes.....
Click to expand...
Car type
History of petty crime
Links to Claremont and surrounds
Etc

If Karra and any of those other local crimes are linked it's highly likely the CSK is a local guy. Anyone local goes to the top of the list and is looked at closely.
 
Thats a big if.

What it appears, is 10 greens bottles standing on a wall and when one green bottle is left standing on the wall.

If they were still doing rolling DNA testing last year. They have tested a lot of people. They had cameras in the area. They must be finding everyone in the area and DNA testing until they get their guy.

I hope police run a TFN query on all hospitality staff in the immediate and wider venues through the ATO database. The ATO database is so powerful now, its a 100 fold faster than 20 years ago.

When you look at how transient Dorrough was, he or she could be anywhere
.
Bartholemeus said:
....then they know who the CSK is.

I can assure you this wouldn't be the case and no one thinks it's the case.
Click to expand...
 
The cops could run names off the ATO database of hospitality staff with white commodore VS1 which was only a year old on the numberplate database. If the vehicle belonged to say, the navy in Dorroughs case. It may have had a navy emblem on the side that instilled an element of integrity that encouraged the girls to get in etc,

Morey had access to a mechanical workshop with potentially a few vehicles. 'If' he was selling Sarah McMahon $10000 blocks of amphetamine, its not like he wouldn't have the cash for access to new vehicles, and cut and shut rebuild vehicles he could set up himself. Built fake taxis even. Because a fake taxi didn't have to buy a taxi plate, fake taxis were a cash cow.
If Morey is SAS or exmilitary, he may have been trained in all the above. Mechanic being one of the core subjects for SAS. (SAS barracks are a stones throw from Stirling road, Claremont.) Being SAS with a stationwagon set up with a LSD diff, Morey could have driven any the back dirt tracks off the main roads up and down to the dump points with an element of ease. Police have said, it is someone who polishes their car a lot, with care to detail.

Rimmers mystery man was wearing a white shirt and black dress pants (by the looks). That is standard work uniform for many occupations, including taxi driver, hospitality staff, limo driver, funeral staff, door man. Did he work for a funeral home driving cemetery vehicles. Turning up at 12 suggests someone who may have knocked off work at any of the venues that were complied to shut at midnight at the time. Printers did do night shifts and earned commensurate money for doing so.

Did all the girls go missing at 12 oclock and later?

Run Commodore VS1 in the number plate database time frame which was only about 1 year old against printing companies. The whole lot could be queried from the database in 4 hours.

The Post also reports that new evidence shows this victim was tied up with washing line, not telephone wire as previously reported, and that the line was "impregnated with material used in screen printing".
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/cl...04-glfnot.html

The Post Newspaper also reported that detectives are trying to locate former employees of the printing company and wanted to know if printing components had gone missing at the time of the murders and the process involved in printed dyes on fabric.
Detectives contacted the former screen printing and picture framing business owner, Lee Partridge, asking if rope was left in a carpark behind the store, a local newspaper has reported.
http://www.news.com.au/national/fres...-1226056298037

According to The Subiaco Post, police believe the killer used a mid-1990s white Holden Commodore VS series 1 to abduct and kill at least two of his victims. They have linked fibres found on Jane Rimmer's body to the upholstery of a car matching that description. The newspaper also reports the killer had some link to screen-printing and had a way of "printing coloured words and patterns on fabric such as T-shirts". After years of apparent inaction on the unsolved case, these are the latest clues to be revealed by the Post, which identified a link between the killer and the rape of a woman in Karrakatta Cemetery in October.
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/cl...04-glfnot.html

McMahon inquest (Strangled on the bed)
http://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/_files/mcmahon_finding.pdf
 
According to her statement Mr Allen told her to come to the address at about 9.30pm on a night which must have been either 8 November 2000 or close to that date. In this account she stated that Mr Allen had said something like, ‘He’s gone and killed her’. She said she walked into Mr Morey’s room and saw naked girl on the bed. She said that there was an ‘old fashioned rope around the girl’s neck. She stated that she later saw the rope on the bedroom floor and it was about a yard long.

She stated that Mr Allen’s right hand was swollen and there were marks on his knuckles. She claimed that he said something like, ‘He had punched her in the head to shut her up but it didn’t’. 6 Later she stated that she cleaned the house. Ms Kendrick claimed that she saw Mr Morey carrying‘something wrapped in a quilt over his left shoulder’ .7 She said she knew it was the girl. Later she saw Mr Allen put the body in the bed of a utility and Mr Morey drove away.

Mr Allen’s wife, claimed that at a time which appears to have been relatively shortly after Ms McMahon’s disappearance, she saw a bag which belonged to Mr Morey and which he regularly had with him. She claimed that inside the bag there were two rolls of dirty grey, used gaffer tape, four lengths of ropes with knots in the ends about two feet in length, two knives, one of which was Mr Allen’s pocket knife, two large rubber bands, one condom in a packet, two pornographic magazines, between five and seven key rings and a map.

She claimed that the *advertiser censored* books contained pictures of men with blood on their genitals and women tied up who appeared to be dead

http://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/_files/mcmahon_finding.pdf
 
Available technology should allow the Investigators to superimpose the images of the three victims to come up with a 'type'? This could be useful in identifying other potential victims, and also in looking at POI's choice of partner/s for likeness.
 
Experience has taught me that people who claim to have been in the SAS never served in the SAS. Is there any evidence that Morey was in the SAS? The VS Commodore thing might be misinformation to lure LW out to go dig up the souviners, if not, I'm sure the Police would have run a check on Commodores that were registered at the time.

crabstick said:
The cops could run names off the ATO database of hospitality staff with white commodore VS1 which was only a year old on the numberplate database. If the vehicle belonged to say, the navy in Dorroughs case. It may have had a navy emblem on the side that instilled an element of integrity that encouraged the girls to get in etc,

Morey had access to a mechanical workshop with potentially a few vehicles. 'If' he was selling Sarah McMahon $10000 blocks of amphetamine, its not like he wouldn't have the cash for access to new vehicles, and cut and shut rebuild vehicles he could set up himself. Built fake taxis even. Because a fake taxi didn't have to buy a taxi plate, fake taxis were a cash cow.
If Morey is SAS or exmilitary, he may have been trained in all the above. Mechanic being one of the core subjects for SAS. (SAS barracks are a stones throw from Stirling road, Claremont.) Being SAS with a stationwagon set up with a LSD diff, Morey could have driven any the back dirt tracks off the main roads up and down to the dump points with an element of ease. Police have said, it is someone who polishes their car a lot, with care to detail.

Rimmers mystery man was wearing a white shirt and black dress pants (by the looks). That is standard work uniform for many occupations, including taxi driver, hospitality staff, limo driver, funeral staff, door man. Did he work for a funeral home driving cemetery vehicles. Turning up at 12 suggests someone who may have knocked off work at any of the venues that were complied to shut at midnight at the time. Printers did do night shifts and earned commensurate money for doing so.

Did all the girls go missing at 12 oclock and later?

Run Commodore VS1 in the number plate database time frame which was only about 1 year old against printing companies. The whole lot could be queried from the database in 4 hours.

The Post also reports that new evidence shows this victim was tied up with washing line, not telephone wire as previously reported, and that the line was "impregnated with material used in screen printing".
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/cl...04-glfnot.html

The Post Newspaper also reported that detectives are trying to locate former employees of the printing company and wanted to know if printing components had gone missing at the time of the murders and the process involved in printed dyes on fabric.
Detectives contacted the former screen printing and picture framing business owner, Lee Partridge, asking if rope was left in a carpark behind the store, a local newspaper has reported.
http://www.news.com.au/national/fres...-1226056298037

According to The Subiaco Post, police believe the killer used a mid-1990s white Holden Commodore VS series 1 to abduct and kill at least two of his victims. They have linked fibres found on Jane Rimmer's body to the upholstery of a car matching that description. The newspaper also reports the killer had some link to screen-printing and had a way of "printing coloured words and patterns on fabric such as T-shirts". After years of apparent inaction on the unsolved case, these are the latest clues to be revealed by the Post, which identified a link between the killer and the rape of a woman in Karrakatta Cemetery in October.
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/cl...04-glfnot.html

McMahon inquest (Strangled on the bed)
http://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/_files/mcmahon_finding.pdf
Click to expand...
 
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