NOTGUILTY Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #12

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sosadaus said:
I think this makes sense but what about the contradictory witness testimony stating he saw her lowering herself over the balustrade.

Also why wouldn't he just throw her over the balcony if he was going to place her on the outside?

"Nick Casey, a hairdresser, was visiting a friend in the apartment two levels beneath that belonging to Tostee, when he heard cries for help from above.

When he went to the balcony and looked up, he saw a woman lowering herself over the balustrade.

“I heard her say, ‘I want to go home’. I heard her say, ‘help’ and at that point I said to her, ‘go back inside’ and it wasn’t long after that she fell.”"


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I agree. There was an eyewitness. If there is no evidence to contradict the eyewitness, and that witness's evidence is not shaken, then the jury couldn't consider any other scenario.
 
For what it's worth, I doubt there will be an inquest. While WW's death has been referred to the Coroner, that doesn't automatically mean there will be an inquest. In my opinion.
 
Ksks said:
whike some posters understand the not guilty verdict, there are several who don't. There are still questions asking how the jury could have reached its verdict and epwhy evidence was excluded. This page seems to be a mix of people who, like you, understand the reasons for the acquittal, but differentiate between legal and moral culpability, others who are still not understanding/accepting the verdict, and still others who are interested only in the legal issues.
Click to expand...

I agree. JCB explained the trial process in plain English and, for the most part, his/her input was valued and appreciated. What is not appreciated is, when posters are trying to come to grips with a complicated legal process is, as I have said, to be condescended to with unintelligent replies. Just because many posters remain unverified on WS on a professional basis, not unlike yourself IIRC, does not mean we do not possess the intellect or life experience to be able to grapple with those concepts when explained without the addition of games of oneupmanship. I appreciate any proffered knowledge or expertise when delivered with honourable intentions as do all committed WSers. Those delivered with less than honourable intentions are not worth the waste of my precious time.
 
Ksks said:
For what it's worth, I doubt there will be an inquest. While WW's death has been referred to the Coroner, that doesn't automatically mean there will be an inquest. In my opinion.
Click to expand...

Would you mind expanding on that thought Ks?
 
I think there will be an Inquest. We do know who the deceased was. We do know the cause of death.....multiple injuries as a consequence of falling from a 14th Floor balcony. What we do not know are the circumstances surrounding or leading up to that.
 
What I've always wanted to know is how Gable managed to record, what was it, 166 minutes?, of audio on a Sony Experia mobile phone without its battery 'going flat'? I've never tried to this with my own mobile but I envisage its battery would be sorely pressed to record for that amount of time and still remain operational for hours afterward, ie; the hour spent wandering aimlessly around the GC, conversing with his father, making multiple calls to other parties such as his lawyer, his friend, and a recently-deceased person, etc. I'm going to ask a tech head WSer when he/she comes back online.
 
Ksks said:
Just did a massive post that was deleted when my iPad froze. Will try again tomorrow.
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That happens. Thank you. Use 'Go Advanced' to guard against losing your post. It 'auto-saves' most of what you've entered into the text box when you log back in.
 
Sheerlock Homes said:
I see what you are driving at, believe me. But, it has gaps even for me and I am troubled by all this, deeply. Completely agree. I don't really know, but it is very hard to imagine she was not aware she was on the balcony of a 14th Floor Unit. Do you remember that she had been out there while they took those selfies, so it is pretty likely she knew she was pretty high up. Do you think so? I think that is correct, but 12 -14 seconds (whatever it was) was ample time for her to climb over (probably using that tanning bed do you think?) and disappear from his view? Yes, I agree with most of that. It's just the last bit. She was safe where she was. If that much larger male had intended her any harm, he had plenty of prior opportunity to hand it to Rie. I suspect Rie's state of insobriety and whatever else was going on in her head led her to make a decision we all wish she had not made. Mikara, she did have other options. So sad. Oh! I did not know that at all. Can you tell me what he did, please? Now you have me very alarmed! How could he possibly have been acquitted in that case?
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<modsnip>

BBM: (Take two). As I've stated many times, it is MY OPINION that Tostee picked Warriena up and placed her on the outer ledge of his balcony which in turn led to her falling to her death. The jury has to live with their decision to acquit Tostee on the evidence they were permitted to proceed with. I fully understand the legal arguments put forward at trial but I don't agree with them.

Why was Tostee acquitted you ask? It was a simple case of his defence team playing the better role during the trial. It's all a game to the legal eagles who stand up in a court of law to plead their client's case, be that the prosecution or the defence. It is a well worn choreography of the minds. Whoever plays the game the best wins. IMO. Some would liken it to dancing with wolves.
 
Bohemian said:
I agree. JCB explained the trial process in plain English and, for the most part, his/her input was valued and appreciated. What is not appreciated is, when posters are trying to come to grips with a complicated legal process is, as I have said, to be condescended to with unintelligent replies. Just because many posters remain unverified on WS on a professional basis, not unlike yourself IIRC, does not mean we do not possess the intellect or life experience to be able to grapple with those concepts when explained without the addition of games of oneupmanship. I appreciate any proffered knowledge or expertise when delivered with honourable intentions as do all committed WSers. Those delivered with less than honourable intentions are not worth the waste of my precious time.
Click to expand...

Well said Bohemian. Thank you.
 
One part of the balcony section of the recording still gets to me... and probably always will.

When they are out there GT tells Warriena it's all being recorded and her screams get really loud, close to the phone, wherever the heck it is.There's a scuffle that sounds like she's trying to get past him (to freedom) which might explain her voice getting louder. During this and a little beforehand we hear that glass on the balcony being kicked around so we know they are definitely out there.

After the recording reveal and her louder screams GT says something weird. He says "You're coming with me". I am still stuck on this part because I can't for the life of me work out why he would say that when he already has her on his balcony. Outside his apartment. He could have shoved her and gone inside and shut the door, but instead he says "you're coming with me". I mean obviously at this point Warriena is trying to get past him to the FRONT DOOR TO LEAVE. But he doesn't want her to.

So where exactly is he wanting to take her when he says "you're coming with me" cos all I can think is that he means closer to the railing. I don't for a second believe he just bundled her up and tossed her out there. I think he dragged or shoved her out there, then went a step further and dragged her to the edge or bundled her up and made her think he was going to take her right to the edge and toss her off. Then he's run back inside and said the "you've been a bad girl" thing.

I dunno. The whole thing is just wrong, wrong, wrong. I wish she could come back and tell her side of the story. :(
 
BasTyra said:
One part of the balcony section of the recording still gets to me... and probably always will.

When they are out there GT tells Warriena it's all being recorded and her screams get really loud, close to the phone, wherever the heck it is.There's a scuffle that sounds like she's trying to get past him (to freedom) which might explain her voice getting louder. During this and a little beforehand we hear that glass on the balcony being kicked around so we know they are definitely out there.

After the recording reveal and her louder screams GT says something weird. He says "You're coming with me". I am still stuck on this part because I can't for the life of me work out why he would say that when he already has her on his balcony. Outside his apartment. He could have shoved her and gone inside and shut the door, but instead he says "you're coming with me". I mean obviously at this point Warriena is trying to get past him to the FRONT DOOR TO LEAVE. But he doesn't want her to.

So where exactly is he wanting to take her when he says "you're coming with me" cos all I can think is that he means closer to the railing. I don't for a second believe he just bundled her up and tossed her out there. I think he dragged or shoved her out there, then went a step further and dragged her to the edge or bundled her up and made her think he was going to take her right to the edge and toss her off. Then he's run back inside and said the "you've been a bad girl" thing.

I dunno. The whole thing is just wrong, wrong, wrong. I wish she could come back and tell her side of the story. :(
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input BasTyra. After listening to Tostee's tape many times I'm of the opinion that he slung Warriena over his shoulder with her head pointing down towards his pants pocket where the recording device was secreted. Hence the reason Warriena's voice becomes louder and it's not just the fact that she's screaming "NO". Her mouth (and screams) were a lot closer to the microphone of the recording device. When Tostee says "You're coming with me.." is when he drags her up off the floor after throttling her. "Get up, c'mon get up." Warriena didn't have a chance to make for the front door! As soon as she realised that he was taking her toward the balcony is when she began screaming "NO". He then placed (for the want of a better word) her on the outer ledge of the balcony. In her attempt to turn herself around to get a grip on the railing she fell to her death. No Tostee didn't push or throw Warriena off his balcony but IMO he certainly caused her death by placing her on the outer ledge of that balcony.
 
sosadaus said:
I think this makes sense but what about the contradictory witness testimony stating he saw her lowering herself over the balustrade.

Also why wouldn't he just throw her over the balcony if he was going to place her on the outside?

"Nick Casey, a hairdresser, was visiting a friend in the apartment two levels beneath that belonging to Tostee, when he heard cries for help from above.

When he went to the balcony and looked up, he saw a woman lowering herself over the balustrade.

&#8220;I heard her say, &#8216;I want to go home&#8217;. I heard her say, &#8216;help&#8217; and at that point I said to her, &#8216;go back inside&#8217; and it wasn&#8217;t long after that she fell.&#8221;"


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BBM. UBM.

Interesting turn of phrase, especially the words 'saw a woman lowering herself over the balustrade'. I would have thought 'climbing over' or lowering herself down from' the balustrade to be the usual description for that which Warriena was said to be doing if, of course, she was solely responsible for her own death by 'climbing over the balustrade herself and falling'.

I agree, entirely contradictory, especially when compared to Emily Ellis' affidavit:

'A Gold Coast woman who is the 'crucial witness' for the prosecution of Gable Tostee has given a graphic account of Warriena Wright's final moments before she plunged to her death in Surfers Paradise on August 8.

In an affidavit filed to the Queensland Supreme Court by Gable Tostee's lawyers during his bail application, Emily Ellis, who lived below Gable Tostee's 14th floor apartment, provides a graphic re-enactment of 26-year-old Ms Wright's fatal plunge.

Police re-enacted the fall by lowering a female officer over the balcony of Tostee's apartment in the days following her death.Ms Ellis said she and two males, Ryan and Nick, were first drawn out onto her balcony of the Avalon Apartments in the early hours of August 8 this year primarily because of what she could hear going on from above.

'I heard a girl say "I just, I just want to go home, please let me go home." and she was quite scared,' Ms Ellis said in the re-enactment for Gold Coast detectives.

'We were trying to look out. We said 'it's right above us, there's something going on right above us here" ... because you could hear her. she was trying to get away, there was a lot of movement.

'We were trying to see what was going on and because of what we could hear I looked over and as I looked over ... I've said to Ryan ... "Oh God, she's coming over, she's coming over the balcony".

'I've said to [Ryan] "I don't, l don't know what, what is she doing? Like I don't know what she's doing".

'Cause I couldn't work out the logic of why she was the way she was. All I could see, cause I'm quite short ... I could see the bottom of her feet.

'I couldn't work out what why or what she was doing ... and she wasn't gripping either, she wasn't on a ledge, so um her feet were dangling. I couldn't work out, is she trying to get down, or was she trying to get somewhere else?

'And then by the time I've tried to work out what she was doing, was she trying to get down to another level or where she was going, um, she was gone, she'd fallen, she, there was just shock in her voice.'

Ms Ellis said Ms Wright's fall was just [snapping her fingers] split instant. She was just gone.'

She described seeing 'the bottom of her feet, and um, her toes'. 'I thought she was wearing shoes, but I think stockings.

'I'm pretty sure it was stockings ... I've run it over ... through my head. I had said "she's coming over" and then her feet are there and it was as if she was trying to do something, get down.

'She wasn't trying to do anything significant to make her ... I don't know if it was just a miss-grab. I don't know what she's done to [snaps fingers] fall.'

In the police re-enactment, a female officer is lowered on a harness over the balcony and Ms Ellis says of Ms Wright's descent, 'When she was coming down ... she started twisting herself.

'Her legs were there first ... it wasn't a lowering or a gentle, cautious ... she wasn't hanging on, she wasn't facing that way ... she wasn't facing that way to hold on.'

The police then repositioned the female officer re-enacting Ms Wright's fall, so that her 'feet were pointing away from the building, her back was towards the building ... and she was a little bit lower'.

Ms Ellis agreed that the female officer was in the right position and said Ms Wright had been 'flush against the building'.

'I couldn't see her upper body at all and she was out like that and um her legs had reached that point. I couldn't see her upper body and that's why I turned and said "I don't know what she's doing" because I was trying to work out is she trying to lower herself that way?'

'I did see a lot of her body which alerted me, like she's coming out on the edge. I don't know what she was thinking because ... her feet were coming towards me first, it wasn't as if she was crouching or anything .'

Source: 'Oh God, she's coming over the balcony': Witness reveals Warriena Wright's final moments before she plunged off Gable Tostee's 14th floor balcony​

Ksks said:
I agree. There was an eyewitness. If there is no evidence to contradict the eyewitness, and that witness's evidence is not shaken, then the jury couldn't consider any other scenario.
Click to expand...

As you can see above, Emily Ellis was also called to give evidence at Gable's trial. Nick Casey was a visitor to her apartment, as was Ryan Martin, so Nick's evidence cannot be taken in isolation. He was not the only witness to the fateful events of that night, in fact there were numerous witnesses, other than the inhabitants of Emily Ellis' apartment as reported in this MSM article:

 
I really feel for all of you who have followed this for the entire time. all I can think of when I read some of your posts is: was she locked in and unable to open the main door; was she so afraid that she was more willing to go over the ledge and try to drop to a lower apartment or ledge; her voice sounded so terrified to me and it rings in my head over and over.
 
Bohemian said:
BBM. UBM.

Interesting turn of phrase, especially the words 'saw a woman lowering herself over the balustrade'. I would have thought 'climbing over' or lowering herself down from' the balustrade to be the usual description for that which Warriena was said to be doing if, of course, she was solely responsible for her own death by 'climbing over the balustrade herself and falling'.

I agree, entirely contradictory, especially when compared to Emily Ellis' affidavit:

'A Gold Coast woman who is the 'crucial witness' for the prosecution of Gable Tostee has given a graphic account of Warriena Wright's final moments before she plunged to her death in Surfers Paradise on August 8.

In an affidavit filed to the Queensland Supreme Court by Gable Tostee's lawyers during his bail application, Emily Ellis, who lived below Gable Tostee's 14th floor apartment, provides a graphic re-enactment of 26-year-old Ms Wright's fatal plunge.

Police re-enacted the fall by lowering a female officer over the balcony of Tostee's apartment in the days following her death.Ms Ellis said she and two males, Ryan and Nick, were first drawn out onto her balcony of the Avalon Apartments in the early hours of August 8 this year primarily because of what she could hear going on from above.

'I heard a girl say "I just, I just want to go home, please let me go home." and she was quite scared,' Ms Ellis said in the re-enactment for Gold Coast detectives.

'We were trying to look out. We said 'it's right above us, there's something going on right above us here" ... because you could hear her. she was trying to get away, there was a lot of movement.

'We were trying to see what was going on and because of what we could hear I looked over and as I looked over ... I've said to Ryan ... "Oh God, she's coming over, she's coming over the balcony".

'I've said to [Ryan] "I don't, l don't know what, what is she doing? Like I don't know what she's doing".

'Cause I couldn't work out the logic of why she was the way she was. All I could see, cause I'm quite short ... I could see the bottom of her feet.

'I couldn't work out what why or what she was doing ... and she wasn't gripping either, she wasn't on a ledge, so um her feet were dangling. I couldn't work out, is she trying to get down, or was she trying to get somewhere else?

'And then by the time I've tried to work out what she was doing, was she trying to get down to another level or where she was going, um, she was gone, she'd fallen, she, there was just shock in her voice.'

Ms Ellis said Ms Wright's fall was just [snapping her fingers] split instant. She was just gone.'

She described seeing 'the bottom of her feet, and um, her toes'. 'I thought she was wearing shoes, but I think stockings.

'I'm pretty sure it was stockings ... I've run it over ... through my head. I had said "she's coming over" and then her feet are there and it was as if she was trying to do something, get down.

'She wasn't trying to do anything significant to make her ... I don't know if it was just a miss-grab. I don't know what she's done to [snaps fingers] fall.'

In the police re-enactment, a female officer is lowered on a harness over the balcony and Ms Ellis says of Ms Wright's descent, 'When she was coming down ... she started twisting herself.

'Her legs were there first ... it wasn't a lowering or a gentle, cautious ... she wasn't hanging on, she wasn't facing that way ... she wasn't facing that way to hold on.'

The police then repositioned the female officer re-enacting Ms Wright's fall, so that her 'feet were pointing away from the building, her back was towards the building ... and she was a little bit lower'.

Ms Ellis agreed that the female officer was in the right position and said Ms Wright had been 'flush against the building'.

'I couldn't see her upper body at all and she was out like that and um her legs had reached that point. I couldn't see her upper body and that's why I turned and said "I don't know what she's doing" because I was trying to work out is she trying to lower herself that way?'

'I did see a lot of her body which alerted me, like she's coming out on the edge. I don't know what she was thinking because ... her feet were coming towards me first, it wasn't as if she was crouching or anything .'

Source: 'Oh God, she's coming over the balcony': Witness reveals Warriena Wright's final moments before she plunged off Gable Tostee's 14th floor balcony​



As you can see above, Emily Ellis was also called to give evidence at Gable's trial. Nick Casey was a visitor to her apartment, as was Ryan Martin, so Nick's evidence cannot be taken in isolation. He was not the only witness to the fateful events of that night, in fact there were numerous witnesses, other than the inhabitants of Emily Ellis' apartment as reported in this MSM article:

Click to expand...
Haven't had the heart to post here in awhile, but I have been reading, but your post gave me goosebumps Bohemian. Just the fact that other reenactors had to dangle the female officer over the balcony to replicate how the witness saw her, was an "AHA" moment for me. It speaks volumes to me as to what really occurred. I hope in this lifetime the truth comes out and justice is served.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
Extra Minutes (5mins) of the interview with Tostee.

Starts by speaking about his confirmed OCD, and the erroneous diagnosis of autism when he was a teenager.
The recording &#8230;. &#8216;the question isn&#8217;t why would I do that, it is why wouldn&#8217;t I do that&#8217;.
So, you always recorded your dates? Without their knowledge? ... &#8216;99% of the recordings which I haven&#8217;t used. It wasn&#8217;t for the purpose of recording my dates. Probably recorded &#8216;less than a dozen&#8217; of my dates. I recommend anyone does it &#8230;. there&#8217;s no reason not to&#8217;.

[video=twitter;798072988276928513]https://twitter.com/60Mins/status/798072988276928513[/video]
 
ninij9 said:
Haven't had the heart to post here in awhile, but I have been reading, but your post gave me goosebumps Bohemian. Just the fact that other reenactors had to dangle the female officer over the balcony to replicate how the witness saw her, was an "AHA" moment for me. It speaks volumes to me as to what really occurred. I hope in this lifetime the truth comes out and justice is served.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Therein lies yet another contradiction. Waiting on trial transcripts. Should be interesting.
 
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