UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #13

LorriB said:

Can a phone ping at masts if encased in metal?

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Yes, it can. The mast ping and GPS are completely different. I've stood out in remote fields with no phone signal but GPS working perfectly.

Obviously if the phone was in the bin lorry (ie encased in metal) the phone pings would continue to work but the GPS wouldn't.

On the other hand, if the GPS was switched on and the battery had power, the phone could be in a remote bit of forest and out of phone mast range but still able to communicate with GPS.

LorriB said:

Can a phone ping at masts if encased in metal? Establishing if it's possible to do so from within the bin lorry would possibly discount the theory it was in the bin. This would then leave only two options:

Corrie was in a veichle around the same time as the bin lorry travelling with his phone.

Corrie was deliberately parted from his phone and someone else traveled to BM with it.

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I don't understand why this is taking such a long time to find out, I can't believe that the answer isn't already known. Someone amongst all the people following this case must know if a phone can ping from a bin lorry or if they don't some agency will know, in fact I bet a WS poster somewhere will know, it must have come up in previous investigations

JMO

MelmothTheLost said:

Yes, it can. The mast ping and GPS are completely different. I've stood out in remote fields with no phone signal but GPS working perfectly.

Obviously if the phone was in the bin lorry (ie encased in metal) the phone pings would continue to work but the GPS wouldn't.

On the other hand, if the GPS was switched on and the battery had power, the phone could be in a remote bit of forest and out of phone mast range but still able to communicate with GPS.

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Aah, crosed posts, if what you say is true I wonder why Nicola said in the Q & A that they needed to look into the Faraday cage effect? Do you know why that might be?

unfortunately Tony W hasn't YET put the family update on the main FC website so we can't discuss it on this thread, at the moment.

If they don't post it on the official site I wonder if GThan could make a new thread after all ( parking lot.)

Hermit Holmes said:

Have to completely agree with this.

If corrie had initially agreed a lift in with his friends, surely he would have provisionally agreed a lift back, or shared arrangements to get home, I guess, around the time of clubs kicking out. 3.30 is a pretty appropriate meeting time.

These five friends? Where are they? There seems to be no firm evidence (please correct me if i'm wrong) that Corrie had definitely met up with them.

15 mins in the first bar, 40/50 mins in Wetherspoons, Corrie had been witnessed singing in the first bar? and socialising around various tables in Weterspoons. He was then in flex for around an hour. All these licensed premises should have cctv installed as stated by their license. Did corrie meet up with his friends? Does any cctv footage suggest 'vibes' between these friends, e.g. hugging, dancing, aggression, dispute?

One thing I'm struggling to get my head around. How drunk was Corrie? And how did this affect his ability to potentially defend himself. He is a well built lad, physically fit with army training, even if he was fairly drunk, i'd still expect him to be able to offer some sort of defence. This for me rules out any sort of...bundled in car scenario. Potential ambush in the Horseshoe is a possibility, but there is no forensic evidence to be found.

All this leads me to believe Corrie met somebody he knew. Willingly entered a vehicle, that travelled a similar route to the bin lorry. What happened then...? Still thinking on that one.

My feeling is if Corrie had an altercation it would have to be someone who is physically superior, or, more than one person involved.

I'm certain, that those five friends know more than they have revealed, and as Midsummer says, certain information is not being revealed for whatever reason.

HH

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If he was meeting his friends in the 'Horseshoe' for a lift back to base, he has potentially five numbers to contact to secure a lift back....two of which are drivers (if they stayed sober). If he was trying to get a lift back with them then the Shortbrackland route is an excellent egress from the town centre...provided that the driver is north of BSE...which his mates weren't.
I'm wondering if they decided to bundle all five mates into one single car after one of the driver's decided to drink and two cars weren't needed and then realised at the last minute that Corrie had disappeared and had his own car anyway?
The answer to that question may lead to whether he walked or not. He was skint apparently so he would be limited to a taxi, scrounging a lift or walking.
I'm just seriously wondering if <modsnip> Corrie did actually walk past the Cornwalk Shopping Centre CCTV camera. If Greenwoods is pointing the other way (remember by now Corrie has disappeared behind the bins so the Greenwoods camera has nothing to auto view) that leaves an open area to walk from the 'Horseshoe', past the CSC and onwards home. I'm really wondering about the image that's been presented to the public now compared to my enhanced image;
JMO


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This is a car route from the nightclub to the 'Horseshoe' if Corrie's mate were to collect him in a car.
JMO


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I just put my phone in the filing cabinet at work- I work in an office that is built inside an industial unit that is made of steel beams etc, the filing cabinet is quite thick but it rang no problems! To be fair it has a very strong signal as the mast is only 1/2 a mile away.
going to repeat with find my phone app for gps and see if i can send the make my phone ring signal. - yep its found it and ringing ok.

I know not very scientific but I am conviced the bin lorry would have no effect on the phones gps or cell tower connection.

guruagain said:

I just put my phone in the filing cabinet at work- I work in an office that is built inside an industial unit that is made of steel beams etc, the filing cabinet is quite thick but it rang no problems! To be fair it has a very strong signal as the mast is only 1/2 a mile away.
going to repeat with find my phone app for gps and see if i can send the make my phone ring signal. - yep its found it and ringing ok.

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That's what I'm thinking, it's easy to do experiments so why don't they know whether the phone would ping in the bin lorry. Maybe it depends on the network, the type of phone, where the lorry is so I can see it a bit more complicated but not 3+ months complicated

JMO

Judging by the last minute decision to go out, having a dog that wasn't allowed in the block, no money, skint, spending hours on the phone to organise things with his brother, parking in a disabled bay, drinking in the car, thrown out of the nightclub, possibly not securing his lift back because of drinking heavily, social hand grenade, laying on the floor with white trousers on, risk taker....I would suggest that the whole night was built on being reckless and 'winging' it. I'm even going to hazard a guess that Corrie's character was a 'winging' it type of character also. It wouldn't surprise me now if he did try to walk it home in an 'adapt and overcome' type of mentality. I've done exactly the same and the same distance. Clear skies, night navex, crack on regardless. Infantry mode kicks in.
JMO.


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suzyjackson said:

I don't understand why this is taking such a long time to find out, I can't believe that the answer isn't already known. Someone amongst all the people following this case must know if a phone can ping from a bin lorry or if they don't some agency will know, in fact I bet a WS poster somewhere will know, it must have come up in previous investigations

JMO

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Speaking to professionals now Suzy. Standby...


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It's really hard to grasp what the facts are as they keeping changing. One clear example is that from day one he couldn't leave the horseshoe on foot without being seen, without being in a vehicle. The family now admit he could have left this area on foot. The fact that the family presented so many of their theories to the public,including Corrie walking to base, dismissing other theories outright and presenting what was considered normal to them for Corrie to do, may have directed the initial investigation in certain ways. Instead of being open to all options, the family discounted some very early on, while the police have said they are keeping all lines of enquiry open. If the intelligence is there to discount theories, absolutely, but we now have Focus 12, burnt out car, various CCTV, abduction re Marnham connection, coming into the public domain this past week and 20th December findcorrie.co.uk. As each one is presented as areas the police have not done their job in (reading all of Tony Wringe's updates on findcorrie.co.uk), they are then being eliminated in following updates. So for me Suffolk Police and the MIT can't be that incompetent. It would have been very difficult for Corrie to come back if he just took time out for reasons unknown to his family, as he was presumed deceased or captured very early on. There was one appeal made by Tony Wringe in the very early days, if he was AWOL to get in touch. Even though Corrie's disappearance was out of character, the door was closed on Corrie having any problems whatsoever, and also what Corrie would and wouldn't do. I don't see how a family in general can possibly know everything about a son or daughter, living away from home, unless they choose to share every single thought, including problems, any possible unhappiness with career paths, and relationships etc. I accept that they will have a lot of information from his computer and mobile phone. I am still staying with an option of spontaneous AWOL and I was in the belief he got out of the horseshoe unseen walking, got a lift part of the way and then natural causes death. Looking at everything, presented and discussed, I cannot rule out spontaneous AWOL. JMOO and we all have our own theories and thoughts, from the information we have available to us.

suzyjackson said:

Aah, crosed posts, if what you say is true I wonder why Nicola said in the Q & A that they needed to look into the Faraday cage effect? Do you know why that might be?

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No, I don't for certain. I'm guessing somewhat, extrapolating on some basic knowledge of using tracking devices and where you choose to site them. As previously mentioned, it's common to attach them underneath a vehicle. If you can legitimately get access to the vehicle you can also put the tracker inside providing there are windows (that stops the device being encased in metal so it still works) for the GPS signal to pass through.

I'm guessing she wants to clarify whether the phone (with or without Corrie) being surrounded by metal, creating an accidental Faraday cage, could have prevented the GPS working if it was indeed switched on. So if the phone had been using GPS and that suddenly stopped, would it necessarily mean the GPS had been deliberately switched off or could it be a clue to it having suddenly become surrounded by metal?

suzyjackson said:

That's what I'm thinking, it's easy to do experiments so why don't they know whether the phone would ping in the bin lorry. Maybe it depends on the network, the type of phone, where the lorry is so I can see it a bit more complicated but not 3+ months complicated

JMO

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Perhaps the bin man may know the answer do we think? JMO. I would have thought this would have been checked straightaway by LE however.

MelmothTheLost said:

No, I don't for certain. I'm guessing somewhat, extrapolating on some basic knowledge of using tracking devices and where you choose to site them. As previously mentioned, it's common to attach them underneath a vehicle. If you can legitimately get access to the vehicle you can also put the tracker inside providing there are windows (that stops the device being encased in metal so it still works) for the GPS signal to pass through.

I'm guessing she wants to clarify whether the phone (with or without Corrie) being surrounded by metal, creating an accidental Faraday cage, could have prevented the GPS working if it was indeed switched on. So if the phone had been using GPS and that suddenly stopped, would it necessarily mean the GPS had been deliberately switched off or could it be a clue to it having suddenly become surrounded by metal?

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I believe they also want to make certain that the phone's mobile signal could work through the rear of the bin lorry, the 'faraday cage'.

Shiressleuth said:

Perhaps the bin man may know the answer do we think? JMO

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Even though we're told the bin man doesn't have his own phone with him I think he may well know the answer to whether a phone works but I'm not tech savvy enough to know if that's the same as it pinging, so maybe it doesn't work for calls and texts but does still ping the mast?

Shiressleuth said:

Perhaps the bin man may know the answer do we think? JMO

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I thought the bin man had already been interviewed and given his account etc. Plus he was seen at another location doing another recycling pick-up?


A.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and put forward an awol theory.

So, Corrie has left of his own accord, why would he do this? There's a suggestion he is struggling with raf marham mentions and having a dog in blocked which has been overlooked (imo)

The family know he's a vunerable person, that there's reason for him to want to leave. Perhaps escaping debt or a family issue.

So, Nicola knows it's a high probability, what's her next move? I can certainly tell you what I would do as a mother.

I would present Corrie as a happy carefree person, winging it and happy to take risks such as get into a strangers car. I would push the abduction third party theory. Why? Because an adult person who has expressed signs of wanting to leave his life is not a high priority. By pushing a criminal angle there is priority, resources and police help to locate him.

Now, how do you keep his case in the public eye and increase momentum and pressure so the police continue searching even with no third party involvement? You build a rapport with the public based on social media. You claim transparency by providing updates and information.

Except there is no solid information, he's awol remember? So out comes the irrelevant information, attempted car burning, raf marham abduction attempt links, efits and pizza workers (awful to do publicly imo) each talking point brings more exposure and furore. This would explain why facts are so muddied, because they're irrelevant. If believed he left of his own accord why push the bin lorry?

This has achieved a huge impact in both supporters, donations and pressure on police to do more to find him.

This is not meant to be victim blaming or bashing, it's an honest opinion on what I would consider if I were in this situation. Because the alternative is to let corries case fade into oblivion with the only hope of locating him being family resources and family money, if he left the country who knows if they'd be able to find that search?

The only issue I see here is who helped him? And where did he go? He must have some loyal friend/s or partner to assist him.

cottonweaver said:

unfortunately Tony W hasn't YET put the family update on the main FC website so we can't discuss it on this thread, at the moment.

If they don't post it on the official site I wonder if GThan could make a new thread after all ( parking lot.)

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GT, please could you consider opening up the parking lot again if this happens?

MidsummersDay said:

If he was meeting his friends in the 'Horseshoe' for a lift back to base, he has potentially five numbers to contact to secure a lift back....two of which are drivers (if they stayed sober). If he was trying to get a lift back with them then the Shortbrackland route is an excellent egress from the town centre...provided that the driver is north of BSE...which his mates weren't.
I'm wondering if they decided to bundle all five mates into one single car after one of the driver's decided to drink and two cars weren't needed and then realised at the last minute that Corrie had disappeared and had his own car anyway?
The answer to that question may lead to whether he walked or not. He was skint apparently so he would be limited to a taxi, scrounging a lift or walking.
I'm just seriously wondering if <modsnip> Corrie did actually walk past the Cornwalk Shopping Centre CCTV camera. If Greenwoods is pointing the other way (remember by now Corrie has disappeared behind the bins so the Greenwoods camera has nothing to auto view) that leaves an open area to walk from the 'Horseshoe', past the CSC and onwards home. I'm really wondering about the image that's been presented to the public now compared to my enhanced image...........snipped

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Like what you've done there but can i just ask in relation to the diagram of cameras from FC website:
Are there not 2 other cameras ( near McD's) that can catch the dark figure as he continues his journey? Are you thinking that this image truly is the best the police have got of this figure? ( Logic says maybe yes. )

I was previously assuming that she had disregarded him being Corrie as she had also seen a follow-up photo of this figure and so she could be definite it was not him.

My bold - I probably need to go back and find the names of these 2 cameras and whether they are private/council/footage was collected OR I've missed something simple.


PS. Dark figure - He's carrying a skateboard now!



ETA - OK I have found that pdf now
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/319850/response/802518/attach/5/Bury%20St%20Edmunds.pdf


and bumping up shire's & polo's posts in relation to the attached image , so it's all in one place

Could anyone who knows edit this as to which rotate, which are static and which only take stills. Also are these just the public cameras?
Working anti-clockwise from top left, I believe to be as follows:

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Adnams - from inside of shop (CCTV shown)
McDonalds - from inside but no footage that I have seen
Cornhill Walk - from inside small shopping precinct (CCTV shown)
Car park / private? (CCTV not shown)
Greenwoods - roaming (CCTV shown)
Edmundos - from inside restaurant (CCTV shown in hub)
Corner of Thornton's (CCTV not shown)

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McDonalds - from inside but no footage that I have seen

Shiressleuth said:

GT, please could you consider opening up the parking lot again if this happens?

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Does he visit WS? :thinking: