PA - Grace Packer, 14, murdered, Abington, 4 July 2016 *Killer died*

david.r.feeney said:

I have been talking through this case with Mrs. F (I fancy she's akin to Mrs. Columbo).

Katherine Albright called 911 at about 328pm to report that she had found Jacob Sullivan unresponsive "in the bedroom". Sullivan was transported to Abington Hospital where he allegedly confessed, implicating Sara Packer.

Katherine Albright AGAIN called 911 at about 726pm to report that, after 911 emergency responders left the home with Jacob Sullivan, Albright subsequently found Sara Packer "unresponsive in the bathroom of the home. Albright advised that she had transported Sara Packer to Abington Hospital Emergency Room in her private vehicle".

5) With only Katherine Albright's word about the timeline and events between the 911 first responders taking Sullivan out of the home to Abington Hospital, and the time that Albright delivered Sara Packer to the same hospital, the events during this time could be significantly, even completely different from our assumptions or understanding.

I keep thinking about Katherine Albright's 726pm call to 911 Emergency. Why would Albright do what appears to be a bizarre and unnecessary action like that?

David[/B]

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Ahh... One more thing...

Pages 6 and 7 in linked docs , KA points out to LE on scene that she bought JS's phone. Why?

I can't pretend to think as a poly for one moment so my perspective is admittedly skewed, but to me this implies ambivalence or female competition or control issues or something along those lines.

Maybe she left SP to die and had second thoughts. Begrudgingly took SP once she realized she was still alive. Shrug. Makes sense to me (said the monoamorous female).

MOO.

In my few observations into contemporary polyamorous folks the main theme seemed to be that a loving threesome relationship inevitably turns into a bitter love triangle. IMO

flourish said:

In my few observations into contemporary polyamorous folks the main theme seemed to be that a loving threesome relationship inevitably turns into a bitter love triangle. IMO

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Thanks for saying so succinctly what I was getting at.

I had a male roommate once upon a time who was happily involved with another couple for years. But the dynamics of 2M1F is surely a different animal than 2F1M.

Could explain the failed suicide pact and the belated ER delivery drama. MOO

http://www.buckscountycouriertimes....cle_21afdc2c-dcfc-11e6-ab8a-1bafffc9dc9c.html

"Sara Packer had a “very good” reputation when she was working at the Northampton County Child, Youth and Families Division, first as a case manager and later an adoption supervisor, according to her court-appointed attorney Keith Williams, who said he has met with his client twice and described her as “obviously distraught.” Packer and Sullivan will each have two lawyers since the prosecution may seek the death penalty.

Packer was well liked, which is how she was able to have so many foster children placed with her and her husband, Williams said."

watergirl62 said:

Ahh... One more thing...

Pages 6 and 7 in linked docs , KA points out to LE on scene that she bought JS's phone. Why?

I can't pretend to think as a poly for one moment so my perspective is admittedly skewed, but to me this implies ambivalence or female competition or control issues or something along those lines.

Maybe she left SP to die and had second thoughts. Begrudgingly took SP once she realized she was still alive. Shrug. Makes sense to me (said the monoamorous female).

MOO.

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Thanks, Watergirl62 for following up and for adding important points.

I am sure the polyamory factor is important. I don't have any speculation about that to offer at this point.

Your post made me consider a scenario that I had not considered in the "Dec 30 2016" timeline:

SCENARIO: SP and JS carried out their "suicide pact", each with full intentions to die. To me, a "suicide pact" implies strongly that SP and JS started the suicide process A) at the same time, B) at the same location or room, C) using the same or very similar means, D) with the same shared intent to succeed. (NOTE: I am leaning AWAY from believing this scenario based on review of objective facts which I will discuss later).

Assuming the above scenario, do we then assume that KA was aware of SP's suicide when KA called 911 for JS (911 Call 1 328PM)? Because we know that 911 Call 1 responders did NOT discover SP during their response to, and transport of, JS to Abington Hospital.

Assuming the above scenario, are we assuming that KA took the risk of calling 911 responders into the home, knowing that SP was unresponsive/dying somewhere else in the home, outside the bedroom where 911 responders removed JS?

A point I will return to later: I believe SP must have walked out of the "basement apartment" at Summit Avenue to KA's private vehicle. While KA described SP in 911 Call 2 726PM as having been "unresponsive on the bathroom floor", I believe SP must have become responsive enough to self-ambulate to KA's private vehicle. Logic, physics, and physiology demands this.

Does anyone believe KA single-handedly hauled an unresponsive, unconscious, large person out of the home (flight of stairs?), then outside, and into a passenger vehicle?

I will bet on this: Sarah Packer walked to Katherine Albright's car, and that is pretty damned responsive.

David

Jffeeney3rd said:

http://www.buckscountycouriertimes....cle_21afdc2c-dcfc-11e6-ab8a-1bafffc9dc9c.html

"Sara Packer had a “very good” reputation when she was working at the Northampton County Child, Youth and Families Division, first as a case manager and later an adoption supervisor, according to her court-appointed attorney Keith Williams, who said he has met with his client twice and described her as “obviously distraught.” Packer and Sullivan will each have two lawyers since the prosecution may seek the death penalty.

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~~~~
from link:

The Northampton County employment documents show Sara Packer applied for a job as a child welfare agency caseworker in November 2002, about three months after she started working at a $10 an hour job as a mentor coordinator for a Lehigh County school dropout prevention agency.

In addition to her two years at The Impact Project, Packer’s job application stated she worked for two years as a case manager for Big Brothers and Big Sisters in Allentown and three years as an assistant teacher at a Lynchburg, Virginia, nursery school, while attending Randolph-Macon Women’s College, a private liberal arts college. In her application, Packer claimed she graduated with a bachelor of arts degree in psychology.

This news organization was unsuccessful in immediately reaching a spokeswoman at Randoph-Macon to confirm if Sara Packer attended the school and graduated.

In January 2003, the Northampton County Children, Youth and Families Division notified Packer that she was approved as an “emergency appointment” caseworker for the child welfare agency, meaning she was hired without taking the state civil service exam. Her weekly salary was set at $1,023.90, according to a letter from agency Administrator Kevin Dolan. The letter also noted that Packer would be required to not only take and pass the state’s civil service exam, but also score among the top three persons on the certification list to keep her job.

~~~~~

I would like to see confirmation of her BA and her CSE test scores. A former co-worker of mine lied about having received his BS from Ole Miss. We found over a year after he was hired. He was fired immediately. It happens.

Sounds to me like they were hurting for staff and hired the first person that came along. That sounds like a lot of money right out of school to me, for social services. Not entry-level pay anyways. Maybe she was very good in her chosen field 14 years ago.

Or maybe it's all NPD-esque or psychopath-esque manipulative conjuring. She was very good at something. MOO

BUF said:

"She's distraught and confused. This is not a situation that she's ever been through before," Williams said.

http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/...sara-packer-suicide-watch-20170117-story.html

By the way, she is the one who purchased the drugs and the saw with two additional blades per the charging doc.

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And someone intervened to stop her suicide...why?? Let her end her life.

Knox said:

Yet she was able to function as a supervisor overseeing adoptions for the County? Umm, don't they check that kind of stuff out? What about her own qualification as a foster parent? Nothing discovered there either? I call BS!!!

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Exactly! Some BS that is being used by the defense in Natalie Keepers case. Nope, sorry. Being manipulated by a man does not resolve you of the responsibility of your child. NOPE! And the details of what Grace was put through during her life....nah. There was plenty of options of notifying the police. Yet she was active in the torture and rape of Grace.

In these clear cut cases, a bullet and be done with them. I'm so sick and tired of their excuses. I'm sick of defense trying to come up with BS excuses. Make sure they get a fair trial, and then be done with them. The older I get, the more cases of extreme abuse and torture I see on here, the less compassion I have.

david.r.feeney said:

Your post made me consider a scenario that I had not considered in the "Dec 30 2016" timeline:

SCENARIO: SP and JS carried out their "suicide pact", each with full intentions to die. To me, a "suicide pact" implies strongly that SP and JS started the suicide process A) at the same time, B) at the same location or room, C) using the same or very similar means, D) with the same shared intent to succeed. (NOTE: I am leaning AWAY from believing this scenario based on review of objective facts which I will discuss later).

Assuming the above scenario, do we then assume that KA was aware of SP's suicide when KA called 911 for JS (911 Call 1 328PM)? Because we know that 911 Call 1 responders did NOT discover SP during their response to, and transport of, JS to Abington Hospital.

Assuming the above scenario, are we assuming that KA took the risk of calling 911 responders into the home, knowing that SP was unresponsive/dying [...]

[...]

I will bet on this: Sarah Packer walked to Katherine Albright's car, and that is pretty damned responsive.

David

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*clipped*

Excellent points. Maybe KA and SP staged it together, yes. Maybe SPs suicide was a complete farce. CYA performance art. So who is the puppet master? :thinking:
MOO


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david.r.feeney said:

THE GRACE PACKER MEMORIAL: MONDAY JAN 16 2017

I attended the Grace Packer Memorial on Mon 1-16-17 130PM at New Life Church, 467 N Easton Rd, Glenside, PA.

I plan to share a written journal of my impressions of the Memorial. The funeral displays, sermons, music performances, and the terrible public grief of Rose and Rodney Hunsicker were emotionally moving, beyond anything I have ever experienced.

In the meantime, below are Bucks County Courier Times video from the event, and the impressions of J.D. Mullane, BCCC editorial columnist. I sat directly behind Mullane at the event. David

Video: Hundreds turn out to honor life of Grace Packer
Tue 1-17-17 Bucks County Courier Times / Levittown, PA
http://www.buckscountycouriertimes....tml_26331fb8-1feb-533e-b5f7-a76a923fd75e.html

J.D. MULLANE: Searching for words to address a little girl's life and death
Tue 1-17-17 Bucks County Courier Times / Levittown, PA
http://www.buckscountycouriertimes....cle_a8d17862-dc09-11e6-8cb6-0f566d73bf0c.html

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david.r.feeney said:

THE JACOB SULLIVAN SUICIDE NOTE

I've been "talking Grace" with Mrs. F again.

FYI, Mrs. F is a Registered Nurse who has worked for many years in emergency room as well as correctional settings. Mrs. F brought up questions about the handwritten suicide note, presumably written by Jacob Sullivan (JS).

THE JACOB SULLIVAN SUICIDE NOTE (JSNOTE) was discovered by Horsham, PA Police on Fri Dec 30 2016, during "911 Call 1" initiated by Katherine Albright (KA) at 328pm upon "discovering" JS unresponsive in a bedroom of 429B Summit Ave, Horsham, PA (429B), a "basement apartment". Police and 911 emergency responders entered 429B and Jacob Sullivan was transported from a bedroom to Abington Hospital.

For a transcript of the note, see p.7 of charging documents available at https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3258309/Criminal-complaint-charging-Sara-Packer-with.pdf

We approach JSNOTE with as few assumptions as possible, and with awareness of the known (and assumed) context in which it must have been written.

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JSNOTE: "Dear Babies, I love you all so much. You are the only people that I have always been able to count on."

>> ASSERTION: JS IS WRITING TO MULTIPLE PEOPLE.

>> QUESTION: TO WHOM IS JS WRITING? Is he writing to literal "babies", that is, his biological or other children? Or is he writing to figurative "babies": his polyamorous partners Sara Packer (SP) and KA? Or is "babies" a term of endearment for everyone involved in the "family", legitimate or otherwise?

>> QUESTION: WAS SP PRESENT? Recall that SP claimed "a suicide pact" when KA brought SP to Abington Hospital later the same day. I am not aware that JS has confirmed "a suicide pact"... only SP claimed that, publicly, to hospital personnel who documented it. Regardless, a suicide pact strongly suggests that SP was present with JS when the mutual suicide attempt began, and perhaps when the note was written.

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JSNOTE: "I can't exist with Sara in jail..."

>> QUESTION: WHY IS JS TALKING ABOUT SP BEING IN JAIL IN THE FUTURE? As of Dec 30, 2016, I do not believe that SP had been jailed or even formally charged with any crime (please check my understanding). The police visit to 990 E Cherry Road, Quakertown, PA home had happened on Tues October 11, 2016, and this was obviously known to JS, SP, and KA who were all present for the police visit. Detective Pettinato was contacting relatives of SP and Grace Packer (GP) "during the month of October 2016" and these contacts may have become known to JS, SP, and KA. By November 8, 2016 recovered human remains were positively identified as GP, and this may also have been known to JS, SP, and KA. So, the "noose was tightening" leading upto Dec 30, 2016 in ways that could, and probably would, be apparent to JS, SP, and KA. But (and again, please correct me if I am wrong), SP was neither arrested or charged on Dec 30, 2016. This leads me to assert that JS is talking about SP being in jail not in the past, or perhaps for a lesser charge of misleading investigators. This statement leads me to believe JS believed SP would be going to jail IN THE FUTURE, and for a term of such consequence that he could not live without her absence.

Our 2 cents: Jacob Sullivan, in his last words on earth, thought Sara Packer was going to jail for a long time, naming that as his motivation for suicide.

David

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Bless you, David (and your wife) for continuing to discuss and question the facts of this case. I have been reading along without much to contribute. As you went through this very well thought out analysis, however, a thought occurred to me. What if JS did NOT write that suicide note?
We know that there was a note in Grace's school records that police concluded could not have been written by Grace. The obvious implication is that SP wrote that note in Grace's name for some reason. What if SP drugged JS to try to make it look like he committed suicide and then she could blame everything on him after he died? What if KA interrupted that plan when she found JS and called 911? Then SP felt she had to "cover" so she took enough pills to fake being suicidal but not enough to kill herself and had KA drive her to the ER? As you point out, SP was the one to say there was a "suicide pact", not JS. Also, JS confessed to a nurse at the hospital, including info that implicated SP as being a very active participant in the rape and murder of Grace. I'm not saying I believe everything he says but, the idea that he was so worried about SP being in jail in the future that he attempted suicide AND the fact that he sung like a canary to implicate her as soon as conscious again are not congruent. He could have confessed and still protected her if he was really so enamored and worried for her going to jail. He could have left her part out of the story--instead he tells the story as if she was the primary instigator of it all. In short, I suspect SP wrote the suicide note. JMO.

(Sara Packer and Jacob Patrick Sullivan) "are scheduled to appear in district court Friday in Abington Township." http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/01/death_of_15-year-old_adopted_g.html

Calling all Bucks County PA locals... if anyone has any intel about which Abington PA district court will be seeing Packer/Sullivan tomorrow (there are more than 1), please feel free to email me at david.r.feeney@gmail.com

If the proceedings are public, I am considering visiting and observing. Having seen Rose and Rodney Hunsicker in person, I would like to see Packer/Sullivan in person as well.

I hope this request doesn't violate any Community guidelines. Please advise.

David

Great points David! Another thing that strikes me as hinkey about the suicide note is the phrase "cowards way out". While this is something some people might say of a suicidal person, usually this is not the attitude nor phrasing of the suicidal person themselves. In my experience, people who are suicidal either think the world would be better off without them or they are trying to end their own personal pain or avoid future pain --in this case it would seem JS wanted to commit suicide to avoid jail and paying for his crimes and yet in the note he insists on his and Sara's innocence while simultaneously calling himself a coward-- these things just don't jive for me. And if he really intended to commit suicide, why not confess in the note? Since you have suicide hotline experience, what do you think? Do suicidal people often call themselves cowards for their suicidal attempts?

Hi David, you may want to check the time/date of tomorrow's hearing. I believe I saw on the public Facebook page memorializing Grace that it was moved to some time in February. I can't access Facebook from this computer (I'm working -- well, "working") or I'd try to pull the info for you myself. The information was somewhere in the recent comments on that page, however.

Thanks! Will do. Much appreciated...

Yup! Confirmed... rescheduled to Feb 24 it appears. Thanks again. David

Gardener1850 said:

Great points David! Another thing that strikes me as hinkey about the suicide note is the phrase "cowards way out". While this is something some people might say of a suicidal person, usually this is not the attitude nor phrasing of the suicidal person themselves. In my experience, people who are suicidal either think the world would be better off without them or they are trying to end their own personal pain or avoid future pain --in this case it would seem JS wanted to commit suicide to avoid jail and paying for his crimes and yet in the note he insists on his and Sara's innocence while simultaneously calling himself a coward-- these things just don't jive for me. And if he really intended to commit suicide, why not confess in the note? Since you have suicide hotline experience, what do you think? Do suicidal people often call themselves cowards for their suicidal attempts?

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The more you discuss JSNOTE, the more convincing you get.

I wonder if the same experts who determined the FAKE GRACE NOTE are examining the JSNOTE. I have a little familiarity with questioned document examination, but know nothing about the process of analyzing word choice, grammar, style, and "content" of writing. But clearly that's the analysis that determined the FAKE GRACE note was fake. Sounds like a rabbit hole I can fall into for a while.

RE: Content of suicide notes: I have had only basic training about suicide, and maybe 100 hours as a volunteer suicide hotline operator, so I wouldn't pretend to speak about typical suicidal behavior. Plus the added complexity of writing, and gender, and crime... I would defer to professional literature (if such can be found). Long story short, I dunno.

But as an amateur... IMO, etc... I think the writer of JSNOTE is questionable. I hope Bucks County DA is doing so!

David

THE GRACE NOTE: TYPEWRITTEN; DETERMINED TO BE FAKE; ATTRIBUTED TO SARA PACKER

"Police said Sara Packer gave police a fake note that she said was left behind by Grace when she ran away. The typed-letter was addressed to the family and discussed Grace being sorry for being a “burden” and said she left because of that. Police said the letter had no written signature and determined the “language and content to be inconsistent with being written by a 14 year old girl with the academic and social level of Grace Packer.” http://heavy.com/news/2016/12/grace...-dismembered-suspect-photos-pictures-facebook

QUESTION: HOW DID POLICE DETERMINE THE INAUTHENTICITY OF THE GRACE NOTE? As you may know, there are different standards, and certifying agencies, regarding examination of questioned documents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Questioned_document_examination

QUESTION: DO POLICE CHARGES OF FAKING WRITTEN NOTES AGAINST SARA PACKER INCREASE THE PLAUSIBILITY THAT SP ALSO FAKED THE HANDWRITTEN JACOB SULLIVAN SUICIDE NOTE (JSNOTE)?

david.r.feeney said:

The more you discuss JSNOTE, the more convincing you get.

I wonder if the same experts who determined the FAKE GRACE NOTE are examining the JSNOTE. I have a little familiarity with questioned document examination, but know nothing about the process of analyzing word choice, grammar, style, and "content" of writing. But clearly that's the analysis that determined the FAKE GRACE note was fake. Sounds like a rabbit hole I can fall into for a while.

RE: Content of suicide notes: I have had only basic training about suicide, and maybe 100 hours as a volunteer suicide hotline operator, so I wouldn't pretend to speak about typical suicidal behavior. Plus the added complexity of writing, and gender, and crime... I would defer to professional literature (if such can be found). Long story short, I dunno.

But as an amateur... IMO, etc... I think the writer of JSNOTE is questionable. I hope Bucks County DA is doing so!

David

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Thanks, I hope they will be examining it as well. Although, not sure if it would matter too much except they could add an additional charges to SP if she wrote the note and tried to kill JS.