For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

BigCityAccountant · Jan 26, 2017

Saul Vesalot said:
Thanks.

Overall, the pictures are still pretty disappointing. There are so many things that could have been cleared up with pictures. As of now, I don't think these pictures will supply us with any of the answers we are looking for though.

There are more good pictures of the Avery dog than there are of the burn pit.

- Fassbender during the Brenden interrogation.
This seat?
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/exhibit-371.jpg

This still has paint on it, unless I'm mistaken.
One method for removing paint from metal is using a household blow torch. And I don't think those get anywhere near cremation temperatures.

This one:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/exhibit-228.jpg
looks like they strung up a deer for butchering. Of course, a person could be strung up that way for similar purposes, but there is evidence for the deer and none for a person. If they did that, it could easily explain the "clean" spot on the floor (was hoping for a good picture of that!) and the luminol hit in the garage.

- page 81 of the CASO

.
Hi Saul :seeya:!! Don't know if I've ever offically said :welcome4:

I have to agree that I've seen many a make shift deer hangs and IMHO that is what that is...

Karinna · Jan 26, 2017

BigCityAccountant said:
.
I totally agree Missy. Not one splatter of blood in that garage anywhere after what was it 10, 11 shots pumped into poor TH.

Oh, and you can see in this picture another phone number on that same notepad in the Rolodex~~not sure if it has a name or not because you really can't see the whole page, but it would seem that it was common for SA to use that notepad to write phone numbers down. At least he was organized. I write down numbers on anything I can find to write on, then look back and say...who the heck is that. I can even admit to calling the number when I don't know who it was. Of course, I'd say Who is this? That is usually followed by WHO IS THIS? or the even more embarassing..Hello BCA ~~ and you still don't know who it is...

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/exhibit-180.jpg

BBM, How was it proven with evidence that TH was shot 10-11 times? I only recall the one bullet fragment found with TH's DNA on it. Were there more bullets with Teresa's DNA found? And if not how would they know she was shot multiple times? There were lots of bullets found around ASY weren't there?
I am even sceptical that the bullet found in the garage with TH's DNA, if she was shot in the head would of even exited the skull? I have read otherwise from a bullet of that caliber would of exited a person's skull.

Karinna · Jan 26, 2017

missy1974 said:
LOL looks like some kind of horn?

I agree. My husband had one like that but was hollow on the wider end of it. It belonged to his dad, and think he said it was a buffalo horn. I don't know what the thing is that seals the end of it in the picture? Maybe something placed in there to hang it up on a wall?

BigCityAccountant · Jan 26, 2017

Karinna said:
BBM, How was it proven with evidence that TH was shot 10-11 times? I only recall the one bullet fragment found with TH's DNA on it. Were there more bullets with Teresa's DNA found? And if not how would they know she was shot multiple times? There were lots of bullets found around ASY weren't there?
I am even sceptical that the bullet found in the garage with TH's DNA, if she was shot in the head would of even exited the skull? I have read otherwise from a bullet of that caliber would of exited a person's skull.

.
Hi Karrina~~

I was being sarcastic...LOL

It wasn't proven she was shot 10,11 times. However, there were 10 or 11 shells found in the garage.

I agree with you I question the DNA on the bullet found in the garage, 6 MONTHS after the initial searches.

Having some knowledge of guns~~you are correct~~that caliber would have a hard time entering and exiting. You would expect something like a 45 caliber to do that kind of damage.

BigCityAccountant · Jan 26, 2017

So, this one makes me question whether SA is guilty or not. I wonder when the pictures were taken?

You can clearly see something next to the red vehicle in the area where TH's RAV4 was found. Can make out if it is her vehicle covered with all that debris or not. I can see a tire next to the red car though.

But what's more interesting about that picture...Is the 2 people standing on the other side of the pond.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/exhibit-082.jpg

BigCityAccountant · Jan 26, 2017

This one looks to me like the contents of a charcoal barbecue dumped out or the contents of a burn barrel dumped out. Notice that all around the black area has leaves strewn about, but only 1 or 2 leaves on top of the black pile.

Oh, and did I mention the clear water bottle next to it as well? I'm sure some will say it was placed there afterward, but I can guarantee that if it was there on the night of the bonfire~~they it surely would have been melted.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/exhibit-050.jpg

Karinna · Jan 26, 2017

BigCityAccountant said:
.
Hi Karrina~~

I was being sarcastic...LOL

It wasn't proven she was shot 10,11 times. However, there were 10 or 11 shells found in the garage.

I agree with you I question the DNA on the bullet found in the garage, 6 MONTHS after the initial searches.

Having some knowledge of guns~~you are correct~~that caliber would have a hard time entering and exiting. You would expect something like a 45 caliber to do that kind of damage.

Oh haha, no problem BCA. You had me wondering LOL.
And yeah lots of spent bullets laying around the place so not a stretch to plant one with DNA on it months after. It makes me wonder why they would think to search so long after the initial searches, and then bingo the miraculous find of one little bullet. As if!

dexter75 · Jan 26, 2017

Karinna said:
BBM, How was it proven with evidence that TH was shot 10-11 times? I only recall the one bullet fragment found with TH's DNA on it. Were there more bullets with Teresa's DNA found? And if not how would they know she was shot multiple times? There were lots of bullets found around ASY weren't there?
I am even sceptical that the bullet found in the garage with TH's DNA, if she was shot in the head would of even exited the skull? I have read otherwise from a bullet of that caliber would of exited a person's skull.

Probably the same way it was proven ALL evidence points to Steve Avery.
Look at all the PROOF law enforcement had🙄
I mean they tested his BLOOD for crying out loud. Didn't test to be sure it was AVERYS blood BEFORE they tested it, but hey..no biggie. * shoulder shrug*

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missy1974 · Jan 26, 2017

BigCityAccountant said:
So, this one makes me question whether SA is guilty or not. I wonder when the pictures were taken?

You can clearly see something next to the red vehicle in the area where TH's RAV4 was found. Can make out if it is her vehicle covered with all that debris or not. I can see a tire next to the red car though.

But what's more interesting about that picture...Is the 2 people standing on the other side of the pond.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/exhibit-082.jpg

I don't think it's the RAV4, maybe it's the tarp laying there?

All the aerial photo's were taken after the RAV4 was found, the one way you can tell is the pond in the picture, it filled up after it rained on the 5th. There is one of the new aerial photo's where I can see Kuss Rd. and you can see the activity over there.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/exhibit-084.jpg

I can also see how easy it would be to get to SA's property from the deer camp/Kuss Rd. Can't help to think something happened over there. Remember that's where Loof tracked.

dexter75 · Jan 26, 2017

BigCityAccountant said:
So, this one makes me question whether SA is guilty or not. I wonder when the pictures were taken?

You can clearly see something next to the red vehicle in the area where TH's RAV4 was found. Can make out if it is her vehicle covered with all that debris or not. I can see a tire next to the red car though.

But what's more interesting about that picture...Is the 2 people standing on the other side of the pond.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/exhibit-082.jpg

Interesting..you've pointed out some great stuff for us my friend, thanks😊
My MAIN reason, the biggest thing for me that says Avery didn't do this ( aside from all of this hard evidence pointing right to a frame job ) is Zellner.

No way would she take a GUILTY man as a client.

No way would she then BOAST about evidence planting, who done it, how it happened.

No way would she seek out independent testing from world renowned experts.

No way would she be this deep into the investigation nearly a year later if he were guilty. ( certainly she would have bailed had she ran into ANYTHING that screamed GUILT )

Yep, aside from Avery himself... ( his behavior and cooperation re this case )
Zellners dedication to this case speaks volumes.

All JMO

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BigCityAccountant · Jan 26, 2017

missy1974 said:
I don't think it's the RAV4, maybe it's the tarp laying there?

All the aerial photo's were taken after the RAV4 was found, the one way you can tell is the pond in the picture, it filled up after it rained on the 5th. There is one of the new aerial photo's where I can see Kuss Rd. and you can see the activity over there.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/exhibit-084.jpg

I can also see how easy it would be to get to SA's property from the deer camp/Kuss Rd. Can't help to think something happened over there. Remember that's where Loof tracked.

.
Yep, your right Missy~~It would be way easy to get in thru the deer camp Kuss Rd. I thought they might have been taken after the RAV4 was found~~but then where are all the LE vehicles that showed up that day?

Karinna · Jan 26, 2017

dexter75 said:
Probably the same way it was proven ALL evidence points to Steve Avery.
Look at all the PROOF law enforcement had&#55357;&#56900;
I mean they tested his BLOOD for crying out loud. Didn't test to be sure it was AVERYS blood BEFORE they tested it, but hey..no biggie. * shoulder shrug*

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Yes all the evidence had to point to SA, and BD was just collateral damage for their case and charges to stick and get their conviction, and thats exactly what the net result was. All IMO.

missy1974 · Jan 26, 2017

BigCityAccountant said:
.
Yep, your right Missy~~It would be way easy to get in thru the deer camp Kuss Rd. I thought they might have been taken after the RAV4 was found~~but then where are all the LE vehicles that showed up that day?

It took a bit of searching but this is what I found in the transcripts in regards to the Exhibit 80's that are aerial photo's (there is more than one talked about that day)

THE COURT: For the benefit of the record and the jurors, counsel, do I understand -- and I know there's been a series of aerial photos introduced -- do I understand that all of those photos were taken after the date that the vehicle was removed from the scene?
ATTORNEY KRATZ: Yes.
ATTORNEY BUTING: That's correct.
THE COURT: Both party's understanding?
ATTORNEY BUTING: Yes, there are no -- at least that we have seen so far, we have not seen any aerial shots with the RAV4 still in this location.

A little more searching, and I found this...

ATTORNEY KRATZ: It's a digital photo,
Judge. I'm just telling the Court because just
something that I learned about the signature on a
digital photo. It was taken, at least if the time
in the camera is correct, on November 8th, 2005, at
7:15 a.m., using a Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT camera.

The above is in regards to Exhibit 25... also an aerial photo http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-25-aerial.jpg

I think the other photo of the tires, exhibit 71, my best guess is it was taken on the 4th, the day the RAV4 was found. I hunted it down in the transcripts (it was day 3 and not an easily searchable document because it was scanned) and it was used during Bobby's testimony, he was asked what and where it was. A pile of tires ... by the crusher. I haven't been able to find another reference to it in the transcripts so maybe it wasn't used again.

ETA: at least one of the aerial photo's shows the activity on Kuss Rd. According to the CASO report, that happened on the 7th.

Saul Vesalot · Jan 27, 2017

missy1974 said:
First, we see more photo's of the garage. Just how cluttered it is and I think it's smaller than I thought

We can play "Spot the Difference" with this photo. This is from the FBI, Curtis Thomas who is an Electronic Engineer with the FBI testified and said they used this exemplar (on the right) to identify the phone as a Motorola Razr V3. They are both Razr V3's, but there are different models, the burnt one I believe is a Razr V3i. The top buttons are different, and the top of the plate was different. I had read that the phones didn't match before, but now I "see" it. I searched last night and was unable to find any additional information about what model of phone TH had.

I noticed it was pretty small before, which seems a little weird for a car dismantling establishment.

It is interesting that they didn't photograph the box the phone came in, this new batch has the PDA box and the camera box and I recall in the transcripts that they found the cell phone box. Just another "why did they do it that way" moment.

You can still buy that model of PDA on Amazon. :scared:

I don't get burning the electronics. If you're trying to get rid of small gizmos that are evidence, just throw them away at a McDonalds or something. Get a meal, eat it there, put the stuff in the empty bag, put the bag in the trash can. Or you can burn them mostly and leave them around forever and ever.

Saul Vesalot · Jan 27, 2017

BigCityAccountant said:
...and what the heck is this hanging from the coathanger??? LOL:jawdrop:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/exhibit-163.jpg

That would be a powder horn. It is probably a hollowed out cow horn you put gun powder in. Why would you do that? That was the old timey way people used to transport their gunpowder during the musket era.

Why did Steven have one of those? He had a muzzle loader rifle and a lot of people that use muzzle loaders use powder horns.

Why was it there?

Didn't he have a gun rack above the bed? So I guess he kept the horn with the muzzle loader. Though the police probably should have just taken that if they took the muzzle loader as evidence.

BigCityAccountant · Jan 27, 2017

Saul Vesalot said:
That would be a powder horn. It is probably a hollowed out cow horn you put gun powder in. Why would you do that? That was the old timey way people used to transport their gunpowder during the musket era.

Why did Steven have one of those? He had a muzzle loader rifle and a lot of people that use muzzle loaders use powder horns.

Why was it there?

Didn't he have a gun rack above the bed? So I guess he kept the horn with the muzzle loader. Though the police probably should have just taken that if they took the muzzle loader as evidence.

.
THATS WHAT IT IS! Thanks Saul. I tried looking for canteen, decanter, etc. I know I have seen something similar before, but not with that piece that looks like a nipple on the bottom.

You are correct he did keep the guns above the bed and that makes total sense now.

Aleph · Jan 27, 2017

Guns above the bed? Talk about bad Feng Shui.

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missy1974 · Jan 27, 2017

Saul Vesalot said:
That would be a powder horn. It is probably a hollowed out cow horn you put gun powder in. Why would you do that? That was the old timey way people used to transport their gunpowder during the musket era.

Why did Steven have one of those? He had a muzzle loader rifle and a lot of people that use muzzle loaders use powder horns.

Why was it there?

Didn't he have a gun rack above the bed? So I guess he kept the horn with the muzzle loader. Though the police probably should have just taken that if they took the muzzle loader as evidence.

You are correct! I actually saw it in the CASO report yesterday when looking for something else LOL IIRC they didn't collect the horn or the gun rack, skirt hanging there, and lots of other things until March 2006.

The gun rack and the 2 guns that were recovered belonged to Roland Johnson. He actually owned the trailer and that 1 acre of land where SA and JS lived. The majority of the furnishings in the trailer belonged to him as well (except the master bed and the desk IIRC). I am not sure if that powder horn was also his.

dexter75 · Jan 27, 2017

Aleph said:
Guns above the bed? Talk about bad Feng Shui.

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Or just an ole country hick who thought nothing of it?

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Jaiddie · Jan 27, 2017

BigCityAccountant said:
So, this one makes me question whether SA is guilty or not. I wonder when the pictures were taken?

You can clearly see something next to the red vehicle in the area where TH's RAV4 was found. Can make out if it is her vehicle covered with all that debris or not. I can see a tire next to the red car though.

But what's more interesting about that picture...Is the 2 people standing on the other side of the pond.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/exhibit-082.jpg

Hi,BCA! I am very confused about these pictures and the supposed date these were actually taken. I found another one posted on another site that also shows no Rav4.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2EpQ8TxqKvrVHpmUUZrVW5rVU0/view

The questions I have regarding this is if these photos were taken on the 5th after LE already moved the vehicle, where are all the LE one would be expecting to see converging all over that property, first of all? Second of all, if the Rav4 had been discovered already, what was the point of doing another flyover? I can see where an arial view could show them the position of the vehicle, possibly, so the flyover on the 4th is explainable....I don't see what the reasoning for flyover's continuing after her car was taken away,though. It's very unrealistic to think that they expected to be able to find TH, herself, from such a height, so what was the point? :thinking:

For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

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