Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #12

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IApart from watching across the road, magine if you had that bank of phones tapped at the main Claremont post office.
You could hear the name of every person calling a cab from across the road.
Calling a cab appears the common variable in this crime.
Having the block public phone boxes tappped would mean you 'hear' every call to thd taxi company with the persons name and voice.
How many were going etc.

There apear to be some inconsistencies in the reporting.
Ill check but Im pretty sure a bouncer called a cab for one of the girls.1
Taxi company may not have known.
Maybe we are relying too heavily on the video.
I havent got Deb Marshalls book on me and who said the phone box was used across the road at the Claremont GPO?
I know SS rang from Stirling.
Deb Marshall was alluding to all the gorls being highly intoxicated. Does that sound like Sarah Spiers in nature?
Steve Ross couldnt get the taxi records showing his movements.
<modsnip>


Crabstick, please don't forget to post your source or retract this statement. The only victim known to have called a taxi was Sarah. A bouncer did not call a taxi for any of the victims.

<modsnip>
 
Stating information as fact without links to back it up is considered rumour. Such post and responses have been removed.

:wave:
 
Haha, I'm good with that.

I guess the point I'm making is you need to have caused or contributed to damages if you are to the subject of a civil claim. If that's suspicious then suspect away.
Yes, that was precisely the point l made. Thank you.

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I don't even think there's a source that he ever attended university let alone failed. There was an email address in the same name discovered at Curtin that was found not to be his at one stage a few weeks back. Also, short of having an academic transcript there's no way to tell why someone left university. I went to university with many people that pulled out for reasons other than failure.

A previous poster said they worked with BRE at UWA (as Telstra person we think) quite recently. He was there, but not as a student.
 
I don't even think there's a source that he ever attended university let alone failed. There was an email address in the same name discovered at Curtin that was found not to be his at one stage a few weeks back. Also, short of having an academic transcript there's no way to tell why someone left university. I went to university with many people that pulled out for reasons other than failure.

Hold up. Saying "I wonder" is not the same as stating fact.
 
It could be a fantasist. I gather she rang the papers, also

Nowhere in the article does it state that the woman contacted the Cambridge Post. The article states:



(modsnip)

'She phoned police after Bradley Robert Edwards (48) was charged last month over the Karrakatta crime and others, including the murders of Jane Rimmer in 1996 and Ciara Glennon in 1997.

In a horrifying twist, the woman was telephoned and taunted after she was raped by a man who said he was her attacker.

After the woman reported the rape and calls, police wondered how her assailant had obtained her phone number.'

'"As this matter is now before the courts, and there remains an ongoing investigation, WA Police will not be making any further comment,” a police spokesman said.

“We urge the media and public to also be respectful of the judicial process."

"Further, media reports on an active investigation can seriously jeopardise the investigation and negatively impact future prosecutions."'


Phone Fear in 90s rape
by David Cohen
Cambridge Post (p. 7)
January 21, 2017​

Nor can anyone assume the alleged victim is a 'fantasist'. Some victims do not disclose that they were sexually assaulted for decades afterward, if ever.
 
if he's used them as cover, their records to scout areas, find victims families numbers, their vehicles .... it's possible. Also the Shire. These girls families have some clout, l don't see them as being backwards in pursuing any person or entity.

Let's assume BRE pleads guilty to all of the charges, and there is no trial.

Then how are the victims families going to know if BRE has used Telstra as cover, and Telstra records to scout areas?

Can the families of victims then compel WAPOL to provide them with the evidence that they would have likely had as ammunition to use on any trial of BRE. Evidence that due to BRE pleading guilty (in this scenario), never comes to light in court?
Evidence provided by either
1. Telstra
2. Telstra Corporate customers or their staff or contractors that BRE was working for or alongside as a Telstra employee or contractor
3. Current or ex Telstra employees or contractors and their sub-contractors
4. Anyone else not covered by 1-3. above.

Who is responsible for the legal liabilities of Telstra incidents that occurred that long ago.
The Federal Government or the current Telstra?
 
Yes, that was precisely the point l made. Thank you.

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Please describe how Telstra contributed to or were negligent in the murder of the girls. Preferably things we know to be true rather than wild speculation such as use of reverse directories.
 
I used to work for goverment. One day they brought in these cards. They said you have to note everytime you leave the building.
One of the staff piped up.
The manager said it was in case someone robbbed a bank inside work hours.
While Telstra probably some pretty impressive policy and procedures, there will probably be some changes in locking down risk liability.
The same goes for end of mile ISP retailers handind out customer information at a whim.
It could bring an isp to its knees financially.

If someone is found to have abused the telecommunications act or used Telecom data it could be an opening for litigation.
There would be a pot of gold at end of rainbow for people selling off data to organised crime, especially in the age of streaming location coordinates.
 
Hold up. Saying "I wonder" is not the same as stating fact.

I agree, but I think the statement is said in such a way as to imply BRE failed out of university and the poster is wondering if it was Curtin and if it was electrical engineering.

There is just so much false info in this thread, and ambiguous statements are how a lot of it starts. Maybe the OP didn't mean to imply this as fact. Hopefully we can get a source posted or the poster can clarify that he or she has no knowledge that BRR failed at, or even attended, university.
 
<modsnip> from one or two autopsies from air accidents/crashes that I've previously read, the bodies of the deceased will produce alcohol as a by-product of decomposition. So unless further study and analysis was performed, the presence of ethanol on an autopsy report, cited by an author is largely meaningless IMO.

To clarify the science:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8263473

"This retrospective study of 286 autopsied medical examiner cases was undertaken to evaluate alcohol concentrations and distribution in various fluids and tissues in decomposed bodies. ..."

"... We were unable to determine the source of the remaining 62 alcohol concentrations."
 
Let's assume BRE pleads guilty to all of the charges, and there is no trial.

Then how are the victims families going to know if BRE has used Telstra as cover, and Telstra records to scout areas?

Can the families of victims then compel WAPOL to provide them with the evidence that they would have likely had as ammunition to use on any trial of BRE. Evidence that due to BRE pleading guilty (in this scenario), never comes to light in court?
Evidence provided by either
1. Telstra
2. Telstra Corporate customers or their staff or contractors that BRE was working for or alongside as a Telstra employee or contractor
3. Current or ex Telstra employees or contractors and their sub-contractors
4. Anyone else not covered by 1-3. above.

Who is responsible for the legal liabilities of Telstra incidents that occurred that long ago.
The Federal Government or the current Telstra?
Yes it could all be shut down quite neatly on a guilty plea and l'm sure there's a few out there hoping it is BUT the familes will have the right to sue for the files and if it were my daughter, particularly Ciara as the THIRD l wouldn't stop until l had every piece of information there was. Anybody, regardless of who or what they were had any role to play would be in my sights.

It would likely be the Government sued and as in most cases, settled out of court. Telstra nor the Government like adverse publicity and presuure to settle would be immense.

The acting Commissioner of Police today has warned of mistakes having been made and to prepare for those being exposed. I'm looking forward to finding out what they were and perhaps how many times he slipped through their fingers.



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I agree, but I think the statement is said in such a way as to imply BRE failed out of university and the poster is wondering if it was Curtin and if it was electrical engineering.

There is just so much false info in this thread, and ambiguous statements are how a lot of it starts. Maybe the OP didn't mean to imply this as fact. Hopefully we can get a source posted or the poster can clarify that he or she has no knowledge that BRR failed at, or even attended, university.

Agreed the statement is somewhat ambiguous, so perhaps the OP can clarify or provide links to substantiate.
 
Ok. We will see, if he's used them as cover, their records to scout areas, find victims families numbers, their vehicles .... it's possible. Also the Shire. These girls families have some clout, l don't see them as being backwards in pursuing any person or entity. [emoji79]

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To clarify Wyke and Shovel, in both your opinions if BRE is found guilty, the victims family will sue Telstra because Telstra gave BRE a car as part of his job and he was given access to databases in his daily work?
 
...I'm looking forward to finding out what they were and perhaps how many times he slipped through their fingers.

I get the feeling (IMO) that we'll have to wait for ABC, SBS or SKY/FOX to commission a documentary about the case to find anything out at all. Obviously that won't happen unless the accused is found (pending a long drawn out trial) or pleads guilty. 2019 anyone?

I really don't want to see a commercial station do one of their "docudrama" hack jobs either. I want to see a factual documentary.

I'm interested in the investigative process itself.
 
To clarify Wyke and Shovel, in both your opinions if BRE is found guilty, the victims family will sue Telstra because Telstra gave BRE a car as part of his job and he was given access to databases in his daily work?

Uh ? No, I simply made an observation, and I disagreed with Shovel's statement regarding civil suits. :tantrum: :confused:

:slap: :pillowfight:

:giggle:


EDIT: I was responding to shovel's post regarding if Telstra had records they might share:

Yes. Both Jane and Ciara's bodies were found and it didn't seem to bother him. Just a thought, wondering if he was nearly caught out disposing of Sarah, and he decided he'd gone too far into the bush or something? Telstra should have records if he damaged a vehicle around that time? If he used that. Insurance claim on his own vehicle? A record of the clock.

My response was (emphasis added):

I'm sure Telstra are assisting - did anybody notice how quickly the Telstra station wagon outside the Kewdale address was covered with a tarp? It reminded me of airlines quickly painting over their logos and company names on crashed planes.

With evidence of pics of the tarp appearing shortly after the arrest of the alleged - something that may show a close working relationship between management and WAPOL/MACRO/SCU
 
Please describe how Telstra contributed to or were negligent in the murder of the girls.
Great question CP.

Let's first take a step back and look at Australian/WA law related to employers liability for crimes committed by their employees or contractors during work hours, or using their employers assets, systems, information, intellectual property or any other employer resources, to assist in committing the crime either during work hours or outside work hours.

For starters (using google) I found this.
http://inspiringaustralia.net.au/are-employers-liable-for-their-employees-cyber-crimes/
Not sure how reliable or up to date this is to use from a legal point of view, but useful for discussion and to raise awareness for anyone to further research of this issue.

[FONT=&quot]there are some employees who, whether knowingly or unknowingly, commit cyber crimes in the workplace.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]This can lead to complaints and lawsuits against both employee and employer... are the employers liable if the employee is the one committing the cyber crime?

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]... there is a possibility that employers could be held liable ... [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the company or employer could be legally responsible if the cyber crime is committed during working hours, in the workplace, or any other means in which the employee is acting within the course and scope of his employment. This is due to the doctrine known as “respondeat superior,” which is Latin for “let the superior answer.”

[/FONT]
A sales company gives cars to its sales staff to make sales calls on the field. The salesperson hits a pedestrian, but the accident happened outside of work hours and because the salesperson was using the vehicle for personal reasons. In this scenario, the company is not likely to be liable; only the salesperson.

[FONT=&quot]So if CSK was not on call when the crimes were committed, or committed the crimes on weekends, in his vehicle, when he had access to a company vehicle in a private capacity, would the company be liable?

If the company vehicle was not used to kill victims: hit and run, or knock over using the vehicle as a weapon, but was just used to abduct victims, or transport deceased or victims, has the CSK broken any motor vehicle regulations in doing so?

[/FONT]
In 2005, there was a case in New Jersey that involved a certain employee who took nude photos of his stepdaughter and distributed them using his work computer. The mother of the child sued the employer and won the case. The court said that the employer breached a duty of care to the child. The employer should have investigated the said employee’s activities and promptly reported the matter to the police.
[FONT=&quot]

With the above being under US Law, it might not apply under Australian/WA law.
Applying it to the CSK, might there be a case against the CSK's employer, if he was using a Company Vehicle and the employer did not bother tracking where the vehicle had been used both during work hours and private usage?
Much easier and cheaper to do nowadays.
Likewise if BRE was issued with a company mobile, tracking where that mobile has been, (particularly if you are a Mobile Network owner company), when it's GPS, mobile data, wifi, or mobile network is turned on, is possibly although IMO, a legal minefield in terms of privacy issues.

How is monitoring of computer activity (inside and outside of work hours) on a company issued electronic device any different from tracking where a company issued vehicle has been driven or what it has been used for?

With the CSK, let's say the company was legitimately tracking the vehicle via GPS (pre-agreed to by the employee under them signing a policy saying this would happen if they were to use a company vehicle in or out of work hours).

That a body was discovered at a remote location in a high profile missing person case, and that the discovery was well publicised. Does every company who has tracked their employee vehicles, have a duty of care to cross check all of their vehicle tracking logs against the approx time range and location of the discovered body to see if one of their vehicles might be involved. Cross check without being asked to do so by the Police?

Much harder to get away with these sorts of crimes for very long nowadays.
What with all the tracking technology and cameras about.




[/FONT]
 
A previous poster said they worked with BRE at UWA (as Telstra person we think) quite recently. He was there, but not as a student.
Although it is important people can post information and be believed, it is also important that there is more than one source for some statements. There are 3000 or 4000 people who work at UWA so I would imagine more information would come of this topic. But until then we have had one person come forward and said BRE worked at UWA.
 
I get the feeling (IMO) that we'll have to wait for ABC, SBS or SKY/FOX to commission a documentary about the case to find anything out at all. Obviously that won't happen unless the accused is found (pending a long drawn out trial) or pleads guilty. 2019 anyone?

I really don't want to see a commercial station do one of their "docudrama" hack jobs either. I want to see a factual documentary.

I'm interested in the investigative process itself.
Four Corners might cover it? Agree though, not for some time unfortunately.

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Great question CP.

Let's first take a step back and look at Australian/WA law related to employers liability for crimes committed by their employees or contractors during work hours, or using their employers assets, systems, information, intellectual property or any other employer resources, to assist in committing the crime either during work hours or outside work hours.

For starters (using google) I found this.
http://inspiringaustralia.net.au/are-employers-liable-for-their-employees-cyber-crimes/
Not sure how reliable or up to date this is to use from a legal point of view, but useful for discussion and to raise awareness for anyone to further research of this issue.



[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]So if CSK was not on call when the crimes were committed, or committed the crimes on weekends, in his vehicle, when he had access to a company vehicle in a private capacity, would the company be liable?

If the company vehicle was not used to kill victims: hit and run, or knock over using the vehicle as a weapon, but was just used to abduct victims, or transport deceased or victims, has the CSK broken any motor vehicle regulations in doing so?

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

With the above being under US Law, it might not apply under Australian/WA law.
Applying it to the CSK, might there be a case against the CSK's employer, if he was using a Company Vehicle and the employer did not bother tracking where the vehicle had been used both during work hours and private usage?
Much easier and cheaper to do nowadays.
Likewise if BRE was issued with a company mobile, tracking where that mobile has been, (particularly if you are a Mobile Network owner company), when it's GPS, mobile data, wifi, or mobile network is turned on, is possibly although IMO, a legal minefield in terms of privacy issues.

How is monitoring of computer activity (inside and outside of work hours) on a company issued electronic device any different from tracking where a company issued vehicle has been driven or what it has been used for?

With the CSK, let's say the company was legitimately tracking the vehicle via GPS (pre-agreed to by the employee under them signing a policy saying this would happen if they were to use a company vehicle in or out of work hours).

That a body was discovered at a remote location in a high profile missing person case, and that the discovery was well publicised. Does every company who has tracked their employee vehicles, have a duty of care to cross check all of their vehicle tracking logs against the approx time range and location of the discovered body to see if one of their vehicles might be involved. Cross check without being asked to do so by the Police?

Much harder to get away with these sorts of crimes for very long nowadays.
What with all the tracking technology and cameras about.




[/FONT]

John Glover committed a number of murders and assaults while calling on nursing homes and retirement villages as a sales rep for a pie company. He used a work vehicle. I'm not aware of any civil action taken against his employer.


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