IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 13, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #3

I think the guy has a fanny pack on.
I don't think that is a watch we see.

roseofsharon said:

For WSer's who want to look at the picture, I find that the smaller I make the picture, the clearer I can pick up things. Example: It's just what I think I can see and that is a middle-aged man, slightly overweight, who toes-out with the right foot. Maybe someone doing therapeutic walking due to bad hips or a recent hip surgery. He appears to be looking down. He may go to different trails so he won't get bored, so checking cameras at other trails may be helpful. Just my own analysis for now until there is more clarity to the picture.

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The thing about his gait, is thst he's on the railroad planks, many of which are rotted and have pieces missing. You could never discern my gait from walking up there because my stance and stride would be askew and my muscles would be stiffer. I also would be looking down predominantly, just as he seems to be. Jmo. But otherwise I agree with your other observations.

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There was a poster on here last night (?) that said he was going to use his super duper imaging program to cancel out the blurs. I haven't seen what he came up with. Did I miss it?

Where were the girls supposed to meet their ride? Was it the same place they were dropped off or a location across the Monon Bridge? Am I correct that they were dropped off on the 300 side of the bridge?

If it were the W300 N side, it would have been easier for the perp to watch and cut them off as they were about to come off the bridge to meet their ride. The instagram photos show that they obviously made it out onto the bridge.

The instagram photo posted with Abby Williams in the photo appears to have been taken in the direction toward where I believe they were dropped off. There is the alleged figure in the rear of the photo and I can see what people have debated could be a person, but it is hardly conclusive. It does show that nobody else is on the bridge with them.

The black and white instagram photo was taken looking in the other direction and again there is nobody else on the bridge.

It makes the most sense to me that they were approached or ambushed from the north side of the bridge(same side they were found and dropped off) for several reasons. I'm attaching an aerial image I've added some comments to for reference.

1. the bridge is elevated over a considerable distance and not easy to traverse. If they were approached from the South side and redirected North, then they would have been able to see someone approaching or had to have been walked back across. Walking back across would seem risky in broad daylight because it would take time because of the condition of the bridge. This is the main reason I feel that they likely encountered the perp just off the end of the North Side of the bridge or close to it.

2. The rough terrain on the side where they were found makes me wonder how the ended up where they did. Were they chased or lead? Were they found together? From maps I've seen online, they were reportedly found near the bend and close to the rear of a home on W300N. This is across 3 drainage ditches and through rough terrain when looking at online topo maps. The creek banks have steep areas as well and it is wooded. This leads me to believe that the perp had control of them for the entire duration of them traveling from the bridge to where they were found. It would seem unlikely that they would run through such rough terrain over such a distance from someone and not naturally get separated from each other. This would be risky for the perp as well.

3. So if the perp controlled them from the bridge until the location where they were found, it makes me wonder how much was planned and the level of sophistication involved. Did the perp control them and take them where he did because it was in the direction of where he planned to exit the area? Where he had a car parked?

4. If the POI on the bridge has something to do with it, when was the photo taken and what direction was he heading? If he is the perp, then it wouldn't make a lot of sense to me that he'd be back on the bridge after the crime unless it didn't go at all as planned or if it was even planned at all unless he had reason for parking a car on the opposite side of the bridge from where the crime occurred. Also, it would lead me to believe that there should be a second set of photos from a stationary camera with him heading in the opposite direction. I have read nothing that suggests those are the only photos of the POI. I have also not seen it confirmed as to whether are not those are trail cam/stationary cam photos.




I hope I'm not breaking the rules by discussing these items and will gladly delete if so. This is such a sad and troubling case and it has some puzzling aspects. I'm a father of 2 little girls and this type of thing scares me to death. I really want to see this resolved.

eucalyptuz said:

...snipped for space conservation...

Super sleuthing!
It does look like a watch reflection. And if the image has not been flipped for any reason (like when taking selfie videos) then I think there is a very good chance that the unidentified man is left-handed.

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I am left handed and wear my watch on my left wrist. Maybe not the norm, but thought I'd share.

Welcome Bob Saccamano! Great first post and map!

MsMarple said:

During the time the girls went missing the Pokemon Go Valentine's Day Event was in full swing. And you're right that most trainers (players) would focus on urban areas. There may be a pokestop at one of the landmarks but even a small town will have many more.

Slightly off-topic: I play the game and while I enjoy catching pokemon and battling at the gyms I mainly do it because it gets me outside and walking. Since I started in July I've dropped 13 pounds and my jeans are finally back to being able to be zipped up, lol!

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I need to download this pokemon go. I'm right now laying on my couch, looking out the window, remarking how nice it is out today...[emoji12]

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This guy has to be known at the local Piggley Wiggley or bar or something. Jmo.

Another couple things I wanted to point- Timeline, while it is tight, whoever did this had at least 3.5 hours to get out of there and possibly more. All we know is that they were supposed to be picked up at 3 or 3:30 pm and they weren't answering texts. That doesn't mean they weren't still alive. I also haven't seen a confirmed time when someone actually went there to pick them up. There wasn't a call put in to LE that they were missing until 5:30 and I would imagine it would take at least a few minutes to get anyone out there.

What I don't know is if a family member showed up at 3 or 3:30 after texts weren't answered or if they waited around a bit for them to answer and then headed out. I do recall hearing that someone went out there to pick them up and maybe yelled their names, but I do not know if that was MSM.

The fact that they weren't found that first night absolutely baffles me. Within 3/4 of a mile from where they were seen last and no reports have made it sound like they were hidden at all. That would have been just a few minutes walk away. Even when toddlers walk away it seems 1/2 mile or so is the initial search perimeter. They were searching for 5 hours at least and they didn't make it 3/4 mile down a creek?

I agree with whoever mentioned LE treating it as a runaway case from the very beginning. Do the girls have a history of running off? Did they have reason to believe it was a possibility other than the fact they are teenage girls?

Again, time of day regarding the cam grabs.

Time is 5:30 PM, 5 days after the incident. I see shadows which are roughly parallel with the ground here in Indiana. The current angle of insolation, or solar angle, appears to be roughly the same as what I see in the cam grabs.

An earlier post of mine had him there after 4PM. I now believe the cam grabs are from 4:45 PM to maybe 5:15 PM or so. Plenty of daylight, but considering the time of year not much daylight was left at that point.

He had a 'window of opportunity', and took advantage of it

EllieBee said:

I am left handed and wear my watch on my left wrist. Maybe not the norm, but thought I'd share.

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Same here.

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DexterMorgan said:

This guy has to be known at the local Piggley Wiggley or bar or something. Jmo.

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I don't know why but this made me think of a silly movie called Porkys that my older brother would watch and never let me. When I was older I realized why. Hahah


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Bob Saccamano said:

Where were the girls supposed to meet their ride? Was it the same place they were dropped off or a location across the Monon Bridge? Am I correct that they were dropped off on the 300 side of the bridge?

If it were the W300 N side, it would have been easier for the perp to watch and cut them off as they were about to come off the bridge to meet their ride. The instagram photos show that they obviously made it out onto the bridge.

The instagram photo posted with Abby Williams in the photo appears to have been taken in the direction toward where I believe they were dropped off. There is the alleged figure in the rear of the photo and I can see what people have debated could be a person, but it is hardly conclusive. It does show that nobody else is on the bridge with them.

The black and white instagram photo was taken looking in the other direction and again there is nobody else on the bridge.

It makes the most sense to me that they were approached or ambushed from the north side of the bridge(same side they were found and dropped off) for several reasons. I'm attaching an aerial image I've added some comments to for reference.

1. the bridge is elevated over a considerable distance and not easy to traverse. If they were approached from the South side and redirected North, then they would have been able to see someone approaching or had to have been walked back across. Walking back across would seem risky in broad daylight because it would take time because of the condition of the bridge. This is the main reason I feel that they likely encountered the perp just off the end of the North Side of the bridge or close to it.

2. The rough terrain on the side where they were found makes me wonder how the ended up where they did. Were they chased or lead? Were they found together? From maps I've seen online, they were reportedly found near the bend and close to the rear of a home on W300N. This is across 3 drainage ditches and through rough terrain when looking at online topo maps. The creek banks have steep areas as well and it is wooded. This leads me to believe that the perp had control of them for the entire duration of them traveling from the bridge to where they were found. It would seem unlikely that they would run through such rough terrain over such a distance from someone and not naturally get separated from each other. This would be risky for the perp as well.

3. So if the perp controlled them from the bridge until the location where they were found, it makes me wonder how much was planned and the level of sophistication involved. Did the perp control them and take them where he did because it was in the direction of where he planned to exit the area? Where he had a car parked?

4. If the POI on the bridge has something to do with it, when was the photo taken and what direction was he heading? If he is the perp, then it wouldn't make a lot of sense to me that he'd be back on the bridge after the crime unless it didn't go at all as planned or if it was even planned at all unless he had reason for parking a car on the opposite side of the bridge from where the crime occurred. Also, it would lead me to believe that there should be a second set of photos from a stationary camera with him heading in the opposite direction. I have read nothing that suggests those are the only photos of the POI. I have also not seen it confirmed as to whether are not those are trail cam/stationary cam photos.

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I've been struggling with a map half the day... trying to figure out where the bridge was located in relation to Mears Cemetery. Many thanks for posting !

For those who may not have seen the interview with the property owner.

"You are going to be just as confused as I was as to how did these two little girls got here from the high bridge with all of this rough terrain without somebody making them come here," said Logan."

http://cbs4indy.com/2017/02/16/prop...discovery-of-missing-delphi-teens-bodies/amp/

The orangish brown object in the foreground of the picture, my first thought when I saw it was shotgun casing. I can't zoom in on my phone but don't see that color or shape repeated (I.e. Leaves, twigs) in rest of photo.

Elainera said:

This one? Two black vehicles is what I see. Looks like LE to me. jmo

These are good pictures btw, giving a good look at the area surrounding the crime scene.

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...tent&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

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fred&edna said:

I've been struggling with a map half the day... trying to figure out where the bridge was located in relation to Mears Cemetery. Many thanks for posting !

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I'm not sure I have it totally accurate, but I put it together using maps from news sights and comparing it to a topo and aerial I found online.

Difficult to get up to where they were found from the banks of Deer Creek. Not so hard going down from Mears Cemetery.

Gardenista said:

Matt McCutcheon
‏@matt_mccutcheon

Video: this is the crowd of bikers & even more waiting to sign in for Delphi memorial ride for Abby & Libby. #WTHRSunrise


[video=twitter;833003975616106496]https://twitter.com/matt_mccutcheon/status/833003975616106496[/video]

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Wow. HUGE turnout.

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mi_hiker said:

The orangish brown object in the foreground of the picture, my first thought when I saw it was shotgun casing. I can't zoom in on my phone but don't see that color or shape repeated (I.e. Leaves, twigs) in rest of photo.

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I noticed that early on too and don't know what it is. Zoomed it looks like a lighter or candy wrapper--something flat. I've played with the picture earlier but still can't figure it out.

Bird of Paradise said:

For those who may not have seen the interview with the property owner.

"You are going to be just as confused as I was as to how did these two little girls got here from the high bridge with all of this rough terrain without somebody making them come here," said Logan."

http://cbs4indy.com/2017/02/16/prop...discovery-of-missing-delphi-teens-bodies/amp/

Click to expand...

I did see that and looking at topography, I tend to agree.

Which raises the question- why there?

Is it the first spot that they reached that the perp felt they were out of view of the bridge? I recall the landowner said something along the lines of it being a short walk to the have a view of the bridge.

Is it in the direction where the perp planned to make an exit?