Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #13

mandy.maree said:

The problem is..theres no particular pattern with these crimes. He seemed to evolve,change MO and just go with whatever opportunity he came by.
With SS..i doubt she got in his car willingly -she had just booked a taxi!

Police seem quite certain JR and CG were killed close to where they were taken from then moved to a different site for disposal...all within 6 hours.
I dont know how they know this but i will trust their statements.
I believe taking a live and struggling victim all the way to where they were found would be very risky though.
If this pattern was followed for SS..he had only 4 hours until daylight with her instead of 6. Makes me think she would be closer to Claremont than the others. Probably not buried as he was too lazy for that apparently and would probably unlikely have taken a shovel with him that night.
Someone suggested a pre dug grave at the kk cemetery. ..
Mines...
Land that was about to be developed on


Sure hope she can be found

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lampformypath said:

Hey Zedx and Petedavo, think you're both onto something here! I said previously about the alleged CSK scoping out work sites for possible D sites. He might have been in a management position by this stage and had a crew/s so he could perhaps use one of the sites they were working at as a D site, that he'd never been near the site if anything was found, can't have been him. I'm sure WAPOL is seriously checking his worksheets etc. too.

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petedavo.au said:

The accused was known to be working on HFC TV installing at the time according to previous posts, but then, being in a new area, he might of been aware of other underground utilities like water, sewerage, gas and power that are buried at different depths to not intersect. I'll check with my old school mate, as he was doing the same job as BRE in those years. I'm sure he had maps and stuff in his work bag.

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7SJ707 said:

Perth is the most isolated city in the world. The level of shock and fear that was building as SS and JR went missing from Claremont, reached a crescendo by the time of CGs 1997 abduction and murder.
People were astounded the CSK had cheekily struck again in the same nightclub precint , literally right under the nose of a huge overt and covert police presence.
Radio, print and television media went into overdrive reporting on the case, and everyday citizens discussed events compulsively with neighbours ,friends and locals. People were afraid.
How powerful and omnipotent the CSK must have felt in the midst of all this attention about what he alone had done ,and he alone knew.
As the years passed it became obvious WAPOL really were really at a dead end in regard to any hopes of solving the crimes .Exhaustive reviews of the case again, and again turned up nothing new. No hope.
I wonder if a computer savvy CSK eventually felt emboldened and ' cheeky ' enough to start posting cryptically about the events on internet forums-obviously first using some sort of dark web encryption device like TOR or similar to disguise his online identity. Many of these encryption devices have a military origin and nature.
Media reports in recent years have stated that WAPOL brought in many overseas experts to assist with investigating the CSK including FBI profilers , NASA and ..... " even the Israeli Mossad.!"
If by chance it was absolutely imperative that someones secretive online presence from say Lebanon needed to be "cracked" who would be the one Military Agency in the world that could possibly do what no others could.... maybe by way of deception.?
I know WAPOL have publicly stated that they were confident the CSK was not posting online,,,had identified certain individuals etc etc....but in these murky matters often Black is white,, day is night,,,yes means no..etc etc......
Have got a feeling that despite the current media blackout about this case when the headlines do start appearing they will be coming thick and fast......Shalom.

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Perpendicular said:

I have posted about both topics prior so apologies for rehashing old stuff. Regarding Ted Bundy, my understanding is that he was from anything but a normal family; he was born an illegitimate child to a young mother who had him in a women's refuge, then returned to her family home where Ted was raised as her brother rather than son by his grandparents. His grandfather was supposedly very abusive in the household, so Ted would have been exposed to the primary male figure being violent, controlling and abusive towards the females in the household, which would have created a template for his understanding of power relationships and male dominance. He would have also experienced childhood trauma being exposed to family domestic violence, which significantly affects brain development and the ability to emotionally self-regulate. Antisocial behaviours can come about from dysregulated childhoods with ruptured or insecure primary care-giver attachments, initially it might be because they are 'acting out' to express emotional distress and becomes a more habitual behavioural pattern to seek attention. The impaired brain development, and lack of secure attachment can result in people developing poor levels of interpersonal empathy, but they also have higher tolerances for excitement and are more likely to be impulsive and seek out pleasure sensation through risk behaviours, so it's not hard to see how this lays the path to 'psychopathy'. On top of this apparently Ted 'knew something was not right' in his family, experienced a profound identity crisis, and came to develop a deep hated of his mother as he learned she had 'abandoned him'. It was also said that he had a huge chip on his shoulder about the family's social position and was a narcissistic striver from a young age. So, we're talking about a kid who was exposed to a most unfortunate upbringing and would have had a significantly messed up emotional development.

When he did that final death-row interview he basically abdicated all personal responsibility and placed it on 'hardcore *advertiser censored*', acting like a good concerned citizen, just another glib emotionless ploy from a profoundly psychologically damaged man with no grounding moral centre. Nonetheless, he was right about the effects of *advertiser censored*. We now know that sexual stimuli releases large amounts of dopamine into the brain along with other neurochemicals, and that *advertiser censored* is effectively mainlining sexual stimuli at levels far beyond we're naturally evolved for. After a while, the brain fatigues and doesn't create the same level of dopamine so a person often needs to seek out new and stronger material to achieve the same levels of excitement and stimulation. I would say that there are a significant number of men who have at least somewhat of a dependency or ongoing issue with *advertiser censored*, particularly because it is so readily available on the internet. Now, whether or not people have a 'moral' issue with *advertiser censored* is up to the user to decide, but regardless *advertiser censored* and the kinds of behaviours seen in it are normalised in users minds, and it is not uncommon for people to have 'cognitive distortions' about sexual relationships, expectations and performance. This occurs even in the minds of psychologically healthy people, but you can imagine the effect it might have when regularly consumed by someone with high sensation seeking tendencies towards risk behaviours and a poor sense of empathy for others where their needs are placed above the needs of others. So *advertiser censored* on its own does not an offender make, but it can be a contributing factor to an individual significantly predisposed to antisocial behaviour through childhood developmental issues.

I would feel very confident in speculating that the accused has a history of *advertiser censored* use. I believe that sexual excitement would have been his largest preoccupation at different stages of his life depending on the circumstances and that he would likely have been driving around fantasising about all manner of things, particularly all sorts of possibilities for himself, fuelled and justified by various cognitive distortions and beliefs. I suspect he is very private with this though, and while might have been distressed about a breakup with EE, that he also might have felt quite liberated to have space to himself to use as he pleased, which would have coincided with increased *advertiser censored* use. I also feel very confident that he would have continued to use *advertiser censored*, perhaps very extreme content only found on the dark web. I think he would have had an area in the house, spare bedroom perhaps, set up to be quite private for both gaming and other nocturnal activities, and that he would have been very protective and intimidating about this space. I think CGE would have found this very unusual and although frightened, possibly explored his computer setup while he was not there. This is all speculation, but I would bet that knowing what we've just said about neural wiring around pleasure seeking behaviours, that any WAPOL psych would have taken one look at a 48 y.o. man smack bang in the target offender age range with a highly unattended to yard but a private interest in gaming and computers and found it at least rather compelling.


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7SJ707 said:

This is a 48 year old man who is the President and the life member of a large childrens athletics club from which he has won a prestigious community award, His wife of ten years has just left him four months earlier, He is three months away from having the Tactical response group kick in his front door,arrest him at gunpoint and charge him with a number of historic. murders and rapes. He has already IMO in a roundabout way alluded to these crimes on Facebook in the "must have been a naughty Boy in your younger days " Taxi black list comment to his brother.
The killer clown pic is not on his timeline for comment and a laugh-he has nominated it as his only cover pic -left for posterity with not much else on his FB acc at all-and the comment " everyone loves a clown ".
His stepdaughters comment can be interpreted as "take it down ,this is so not appropriate for you at this time" and the emoticons would indicate she thinks it is hilarious he would put it up now -not scared at all.
It has nothing to do with so called confirmation bias and everything to do with seeing known facts in the context of a larger picture.... this guys world is coming crashing down....his image isn't a normal family man and long serving Little Athletics president anymore.
John Wayne Gaceys Pogo and Patches the Clown characters performed at fundraising events, parades, disabled children hospitals and children parties and his memorable quote.." you know Clowns can get away with murder".

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petedavo.au said:

You obviously hadn't read far enough back in the CSK threads where the question was posed "why do you think the CSK murders stopped?" And many ideas were canvassed but the one that suggested that the CSK went onto dogging, or BDSM, online dating etc is one theory that is sleuthable.
But web sleuthing isn't about theorising, except proposing avenues to sleuth, or finding connections to a case that have some basis in historical facts of similarities to these offences.
It's about slogging through online MSM and SM, and blogs and stuff to sleuth out the truth, and .maybe bring it the justice.
This isn't a general chit chat. If anyone's here for that or to rubber neck, harass, or just grandstand theories without sleuthing them out first, or showing a precedent, then I suggest they find their jollies elsewhere. IMO

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MsAnais said:

eace:

As ever, brilliant post Perpendicular!

Thank you.

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petedavo.au said:

The problem with attributing environment & psychology only to explaining serial killing and thus find or predict the serial killer is that the profiles don't quite work. It doesn't explain why some members of the same family are not offenders, not why many others that also fit the same profiles are not serial killers. Dr Adrian Raine https://crim.sas.upenn.edu/people/faculty/adrian-raine , found physical difference in the brains of convicted serial killers that agreed to being studied in the US. I've had an interest in his work for curiosity, just as I followed the work of Joe Navarro http://jnforensics.com and Associate Professor Haydn Green http://forensic-review.com.au/forensic-investigation/ (a former boss) for curiosity after reading their books.
In the case of serial killers there's an interesting intersection of their ideas though, that illuminates the predictability factor and thus the usefulness of psychological profiling to find serial killers out of the general community, especially when many other innocent parties share the same profile.

Reading some of the pop psychology profiling on here, I'd say my old school mate who also happened to be a Telstra technician in the 1990's would be a better fit than BRE. But he's not either BRE nor being accused of being CSK.

For the amateur criminologists out there, you might find these videos fascinating:

https://youtu.be/oLXr_slKg08

https://youtu.be/6PpKdwWHDMA

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Perpendicular said:

I have posted about both topics prior so apologies for rehashing old stuff. Regarding Ted Bundy, my understanding is that he was from anything but a normal family; he was born an illegitimate child to a young mother who had him in a women's refuge, then returned to her family home where Ted was raised as her brother rather than son by his grandparents. His grandfather was supposedly very abusive in the household, so Ted would have been exposed to the primary male figure being violent, controlling and abusive towards the females in the household, which would have created a template for his understanding of power relationships and male dominance. He would have also experienced childhood trauma being exposed to family domestic violence, which significantly affects brain development and the ability to emotionally self-regulate. Antisocial behaviours can come about from dysregulated childhoods with ruptured or insecure primary care-giver attachments, initially it might be because they are 'acting out' to express emotional distress and becomes a more habitual behavioural pattern to seek attention. The impaired brain development, and lack of secure attachment can result in people developing poor levels of interpersonal empathy, but they also have higher tolerances for excitement and are more likely to be impulsive and seek out pleasure sensation through risk behaviours, so it's not hard to see how this lays the path to 'psychopathy'. On top of this apparently Ted 'knew something was not right' in his family, experienced a profound identity crisis, and came to develop a deep hated of his mother as he learned she had 'abandoned him'. It was also said that he had a huge chip on his shoulder about the family's social position and was a narcissistic striver from a young age. So, we're talking about a kid who was exposed to a most unfortunate upbringing and would have had a significantly messed up emotional development.

When he did that final death-row interview he basically abdicated all personal responsibility and placed it on 'hardcore *advertiser censored*', acting like a good concerned citizen, just another glib emotionless ploy from a profoundly psychologically damaged man with no grounding moral centre. Nonetheless, he was right about the effects of *advertiser censored*. We now know that sexual stimuli releases large amounts of dopamine into the brain along with other neurochemicals, and that *advertiser censored* is effectively mainlining sexual stimuli at levels far beyond we're naturally evolved for. After a while, the brain fatigues and doesn't create the same level of dopamine so a person often needs to seek out new and stronger material to achieve the same levels of excitement and stimulation. I would say that there are a significant number of men who have at least somewhat of a dependency or ongoing issue with *advertiser censored*, particularly because it is so readily available on the internet. Now, whether or not people have a 'moral' issue with *advertiser censored* is up to the user to decide, but regardless *advertiser censored* and the kinds of behaviours seen in it are normalised in users minds, and it is not uncommon for people to have 'cognitive distortions' about sexual relationships, expectations and performance. This occurs even in the minds of psychologically healthy people, but you can imagine the effect it might have when regularly consumed by someone with high sensation seeking tendencies towards risk behaviours and a poor sense of empathy for others where their needs are placed above the needs of others. So *advertiser censored* on its own does not an offender make, but it can be a contributing factor to an individual significantly predisposed to antisocial behaviour through childhood developmental issues.

I would feel very confident in speculating that the accused has a history of *advertiser censored* use. I believe that sexual excitement would have been his largest preoccupation at different stages of his life depending on the circumstances and that he would likely have been driving around fantasising about all manner of things, particularly all sorts of possibilities for himself, fuelled and justified by various cognitive distortions and beliefs. I suspect he is very private with this though, and while might have been distressed about a breakup with EE, that he also might have felt quite liberated to have space to himself to use as he pleased, which would have coincided with increased *advertiser censored* use. I also feel very confident that he would have continued to use *advertiser censored*, perhaps very extreme content only found on the dark web. I think he would have had an area in the house, spare bedroom perhaps, set up to be quite private for both gaming and other nocturnal activities, and that he would have been very protective and intimidating about this space. I think CGE would have found this very unusual and although frightened, possibly explored his computer setup while he was not there. This is all speculation, but I would bet that knowing what we've just said about neural wiring around pleasure seeking behaviours, that any WAPOL psych would have taken one look at a 48 y.o. man smack bang in the target offender age range with a highly unattended to yard but a private interest in gaming and computers and found it at least rather compelling.


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lampformypath said:

I enjoy your posts Perpendicular, so knowledgeable. Should you perhaps become Verified on here now as I get the feeling this is more than casual knowledge? We have our wonderful MsAnais who is a Verified Psychologist, just helps that we are hearing from someone who definitely knows what they are talking about and is sharing their professional talents with us? Your choice of course. Thanks again.

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CaptainTurbid said:

As an additional theory to where the crimes were committed, in the event that the CSK is indeed BRE or another Telstra worker, has anyone considered the Telstra exchange on Clive St just a km down the road from Club Bay View off Stirling Hwy?

This is a warehouse type building opposite another warehouse type building (currently Automasters, not sure if it was this at the time).

Presents an excellent alibi for a Telstra worker to be in the area/building ie emergency works. Far less public or a chance for witnesses than the cemetery plus fits earlier theories that he would have killed the victims nearby.

Interested in the groups thoughts.


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lampformypath said:

Thanks so much Petedavo for sharing all that information. I'll have to sit and watch those videos when I have more time, (just clicked in and saw they are quite lengthy). My my we are going in very deep here aren't we, might need me wellington boots (AND floaties!)

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lampformypath said:

I enjoy your posts Perpendicular, so knowledgeable. Should you perhaps become Verified on here now as I get the feeling this is more than casual knowledge? We have our wonderful MsAnais who is a Verified Psychologist, just helps that we are hearing from someone who definitely knows what they are talking about and is sharing their professional talents with us? Your choice of course. Thanks again.

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petedavo.au said:

This might be a good short one to read firstly though to provide some balance. Before everyone starts deciding to euthanize babies with malformed brains. LOL
http://theconversation.com/not-all-...c-traits-are-actually-linked-to-success-51282

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Perpendicular said:

Thanks for the feedback LFMP. I'd be reluctant to go down that path unless facing a situation like MsAnais (thanks for sharing), especially when there are talented sleuths producing more case-specific quality posts.

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