IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #64

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Bird of Paradise said:
Both died on the same date according to the sealed coronors report.
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Agreed.

In the media thread and on previous threads the Petition To Seal Autopsy Report has been posted - http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...melines-NO-DISCUSSION&p=13299055#post13299055

It can be read in the media thread or searched at the link - https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase...XSTJOVGN4TnpFNU1EUXdPak0xTlRjME1qY3lNV009In19 under Case # 08C01-1703-MC-000094 (using the Refine Search" option.)

BBM;

"1) On February 13, 2017 Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed just outside of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana. 2) An investigation into these killings is ongoing. 3) No charges have been filed with connection to the killings. 4) The details related to the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German, if they remain confidential, make it easier for investigators to recognize a false confession as it is improbable for an innocent person to accurately describe the details of the deaths without personal knowledge. 5) Investigators are able to maintain a tactical advantage when speaking with a suspect if the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German are not made public."

These are the official records. IIRC the different dates came from the 2 separate Obituaries. IMO perhaps one family finds consolation in remembering their child on Valentines Day.

Also to answer the question, IMO, as to why LE would hold back any details relating to SA.
 
Off the wall question, mostly unrelated to this case but more in general about dealing with murderers...

Has any society dealt effectively with reducing murders?

I mean can a threat of severe punishment curb murders? As unpleasant as it is, has torture worked in the past as a deterrent when the fear of punishment actually reduces murder rates?

It just seems there are a lot of bad guys out there and 25 years in prison with 3 squares a day just doesn't seem like much of a signal to future perpetrators to think twice before killing someone.

I would like your thoughts on this?
 
Justice101 said:
Ok, so the date of deaths were what was different.

So... still.... what if one was killed outright and the other left to die from exposure (or partial choking, etc.)?

What if?
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The dates of death were both the same - Feb 13.
The court could not declare that both girls were killed on February 13, 2017 if it isn't true. That would invalidate the Order to Seal the Autopsy Report.

Only the Obits listed different dates.
 
Steleheart said:
The dates of death were both the same - Feb 13.
The court could not declare that both girls were killed on February 13, 2017 if it isn't true. That would invalidate the Order to Seal the Autopsy Report.

Only the Obits listed different dates.
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Well then, one of their obituaries is wrong since they show different dates of death.
 
Tinypeeps said:
Does anybody know if the placing of nationwide billboards by FBI was/is standard procedure in this kind of situation?
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It is unusual to say the least. My opinion has been that the FBI had already been hunting a serial killer at the time these murders occurred. The early involvement of the FBI with their forensics team actually being there to process the crime scene that afternoon - by the time of the first press conference because it was mentioned there - suggests that at least early on that they might have victims of whichever serial killer they had been waiting to strike again. Not to mention briefing the case up to the FBI Director.
 
Justice101 said:
Off the wall question, mostly unrelated to this case but more in general about dealing with murderers...

Has any society dealt effectively with reducing murders?

I mean can a threat of severe punishment curb murders? As unpleasant as it is, has torture worked in the past as a deterrent when the fear of punishment actually reduces murder rates?

It just seems there are a lot of bad guys out there and 25 years in prison with 3 squares a day just doesn't seem like much of a signal to future perpetrators to think twice before killing someone.

I would like your thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

Apparently nothing deters these monsters --> check out this link...

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/...cle_6d553c0e-d5b8-11e5-bf73-73f903540e8b.html
 
Jethro4WS said:
It is unusual to say the least. My opinion has been that the FBI had already been hunting a serial killer at the time these murders occurred. The early involvement of the FBI with their forensics team actually being there to process the crime scene that afternoon - by the time of the first press conference because it was mentioned there - suggests that at least early on that they might have victims of whichever serial killer they had been waiting to strike again. Not to mention briefing the case up to the FBI Director.
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So you don't think that the FBI was called in because the department didn't have the experience or resources to deal with two children being murdered???
 
I had read - didn't save the link, maybe someone has it - that there was an FBI agent in Delphi, either lives there or was visiting when they went missing and participated inn the search. Upon discovery of the bodies he got the FBI involved.

Maybe others remember this.

JMO
 
Steleheart said:
I had read - didn't save the link, maybe someone has it - that there was an FBI agent in Delphi, either lives there or was visiting when they went missing and participated inn the search. Upon discovery of the bodies he got the FBI involved.

Maybe others remember this.

JMO
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I remember reading this too steleheart.
 
Tinypeeps said:
That all makes sense. Though in a town that size LE should have had a chance to comb through the likely ones. I would think?
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I think so as well, but maybe they are only concentrating on the current bad news locals and not former bad news locals. Rather, the review of former locals who were bad news might limited to just screening criminal records of former residents (sex offenders list).

This is good, but I have a feeling that one could have been known locally as being very bad news, but not have an extensive criminal record. In either case, as you mentioned, there simply are not a lot of people to screen via local memories. The area is semi rural today and was even more rural say, twenty years ago.

Anecdotally, I can recall two individuals from my four years of by-gone high school days (a long ways from Delphi) whose criminality ran far deeper than their juvenile records would show. Lets say that there were three other "closeted" bad news types that I am not aware of.

My town was bigger than Delphi. So, maybe the Delphi area schools would produce maybe.... five truly bad news but closeted juveniles every four years? This could yield about 30 people over a twenty five year period. Perhaps a few more depending on how big the circle is drawn for being "local". In either case, it is a small number.

crhedBngr said:
Expounding on this, if I may, I wonder if he has ties to others who intimidate, bully, beat up and possibly kill anyone who gets in their way. In other words, it's well known in Delphi (and perhaps surrounding communities) that local don't mess with certain people because they may come to an unfortunate end. I'm not necessarily thinking narcotics, but nasty people in general. Seems there are always a few bullying types around.
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I think it is definetly possible. Even family members can live in fear of a bully's aggressive actions mixed with a willingness to go "all or nothing" concerning real and perceived betrayals. At the same time, it is very easy to give an anonymous tip about "Uncle Bad". That's why I am thinking that "Uncle Bad" might not live in the area anymore, but gained local knowledge about the creek as a youth, then returned.
 
Coroner pretty much summed up in his report that both girls died on the same day. Obits are done by family, they can use date of death, or date found/confirmed dead. They are not legal documents.

Also, not sure death by exposure would be that quick, i.e less than 24 hours unless the weather was very extreme. We certainly have seen enough tales of survival for many days, a week or longer in various circumstances. Jmo
 
cluciano63 said:
Coroner pretty much summed up in his report that both girls died on the same day. Obits are done by family, they can use date of death, or date found/confirmed dead. They are not legal documents.

Also, not sure death by exposure would be that quick, i.e less than 24 hours unless the weather was very extreme. We certainly have seen enough tales of survival for many days, a week or longer in various circumstances. Jmo
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I hope they didn't suffer at the end and that they went quickly.... It upsets me to think he spent any length of time with them beforehand...
 
Justice101 said:
Off the wall question, mostly unrelated to this case but more in general about dealing with murderers...

Has any society dealt effectively with reducing murders?

I mean can a threat of severe punishment curb murders? As unpleasant as it is, has torture worked in the past as a deterrent when the fear of punishment actually reduces murder rates?

It just seems there are a lot of bad guys out there and 25 years in prison with 3 squares a day just doesn't seem like much of a signal to future perpetrators to think twice before killing someone.

I would like your thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

No, I don't believe so. Among the more hardened criminals, serving time and getting out may be a "badge of honor". They will repeat their crimes again and again.
 
Steleheart said:
I had read - didn't save the link, maybe someone has it - that there was an FBI agent in Delphi, either lives there or was visiting when they went missing and participated inn the search. Upon discovery of the bodies he got the FBI involved.

Maybe others remember this.

JMO
Click to expand...

I don't have a link either, but my memory is that an FBI agent helped during the original night search. Indication was he wasn't called in special, but was "local". moo
 
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