Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #17

b4u said:

My SNIP b4 and after

Is that a sort of Western Cross theory?
Are you counting the KK victim as one of the three CSK girls?

How come a 7-8 year gap (1988-1995-6) between the 1st and 2nd point in your spatial geographic body positioning theory?
Any reasonable explanation for this?
Did the CSK make other attempts during this period that failed to get the required body?

Were only 4 bodies required for your theory?
If so, had any successful attempts have been made to get the required number of bodies before 1995, might have the lives of the three CSK girls you refer to have been spared, and your spatial geographic body positioning killer, possibly retired 4 not out (until he would have likely later been caught when DNA advances caught up with him)?

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I don't know if you could give it a name, but taking the 0.28% (est) probability of GC and JR being on a line that intersects Bay View Tce and St Quentins Ave and reverse engineering that with a line west - east line from Cott to Noble Falls intersecting the same point, you would get the exact co-ordinates for the body position of SS. It also fits other clues posted in blogs as I've previously posted.

The position of the KK victim does fall on the line, but she survived. All the other were abducted and possibly taken to their place of discovery and this geographic position I think was deliberately chosen. This theory does only cover these four victims. There was something that was not random about the three CSK victims as admitted in court, not just connected because they were taken from Claremont.

Did he stop? I don't think there was a 7 or 8 year gap. IMO the abduction and murder of Kerry Turner (1991) could have been an opportunistic killing of his, and there could be others. However I think being in a marriage would curtail the killings. Lisa Brown IMO could have been known to him and the accused could turn out to be boot lined man. There was someone on here making suggesting this strongly, was it Fast Eddie?

I have no idea about other, only that the police even as early as 2009 were looking at many (16 to 20) other disappearances that may be connected.

Dan Baker on the Big Footy blog has posted a far more advanced geographical spatial body positioning theory involving a Fibonacci Spiral that covers CG, JR, possibly JC and other murders, including predicting the body position of Robin Santen, which is at the very centre of his spiral, maybe predicting she is his last victim?? If I could reproduce this spiral it may also cover my West East line with co-ordinates at Noble Falls for SS.

file:///F:/CSK/Big%20Footy/Happy%20West%20Australian%20day%20mofo_fibonacci.pdf

Not sure if this link will work by clicking on it but copy and paste it and it should. However here is Dan Baker's Fibonacci image I was talking about, with him indicating the centre of the spiral is the body of Robin Santen.




file:///F:/CSK/Big%20Footy/Happy%20West%20Australian%20day%20mofo_fibonacci.pdf

Here on the East Coast, we sometimes get some huge swells from far off storms and low pressure systems way out to sea.

The weather does not always need to have a storm nearby to have large swells.

Sometimes a couple of different location far away large storms combine to kick in a mean coastline swell for a shortish period.
One that keen surfers keep a close eye out for and take a sickie to get to before its gone, if the wind, tide and sandbanks are aligned to set up awesome wave conditions.

If I understand this correctly Meticulously, evidence going outward to sea and south in the current fits with where the back seat was found as having come back in to the shore south of where the fiat was located?

meticulously said:

Quote IC :
"I've had these on my phone for a few months now.

There is no need to predict or hypothesise, there was no storm on Sunday
or monday 20th June 1988."

________________________________


On Sunday the winds were onshore and the swell was BIG .

Buoy readings of
7metres at NAT buoy
5.5 metres at ROTTNEST buoy

The swells direction was 300 degrees west nor west . *See Red line on data
So totally unhindered on its arrival to metro beaches & cottesloe . Forecasts of up to 3 metres have been seen .

And i think its possible that it was that big because the information given by the swell data is astoundingly perfect to support that 3 metres size .

This swell direction combined with a strong leeuwin current would have set in motion a longshore current that was south flowing. ( Going southward along shore )
That current continued its southward flow over the following days at least until 24th june .
This current can be subtle if alls quite calm on metro beaches but further offshore around rottnest its much faster most commonly .
The winds on 20 , 21, 22 , & 23rd june were all aiding the southward current and with wind strength the current increases .
I think the chances of any evidence going outward to sea is very possible , out and to the south in the Current i mean .

Click to expand...

b4u said:

My SNIP b4 and after

Is that a sort of Western Cross theory?
Are you counting the KK victim as one of the three CSK girls?

How come a 7-8 year gap (1988-1995-6) between the 1st and 2nd point in your spatial geographic body positioning theory?
Any reasonable explanation for this?
Did the CSK make other attempts during this period that failed to get the required body?

Were only 4 bodies required for your theory?
If so, had any successful attempts have been made to get the required number of bodies before 1995, might have the lives of the three CSK girls you refer to have been spared, and your spatial geographic body positioning killer, possibly retired 4 not out (until he would have likely later been caught when DNA advances caught up with him)?

Click to expand...

Couldn't get a cray boat large enough to carry a car that close into shore at Cottesloe. There's reefs further out to negotiate, the sea near shore too rough, and how would anyone get a 2 ton car off the boat over the gunwales without capsizing the boat?
Cottesloe Beach is not far from Marine Pre at all. There's an access road all the way to the beach and groyne, which used to be part of the original car park before the Indiana was built in the 1990's, when the carpark had to be moved up-to Marine Parade because the Indiana encroached upon the old car park under the pine trees.

1st pic. Beach on the day of recovery. Note car tracks.

2nd pic. crane on the access road, years later, which was part of the old carpark, before Indiana was built.

3rd pic. People walking across that same carpark where the crane is seen in pic 2
This pic was from the 1980's. Note sand drift across the roadway where they're walking. Thus no drop off between road and beach.

1st pic courtesy of STW channel 7 Perth, as previously posted.

Last 2 pics sourced from West Australian Newspaper, Westpix site, previously posted.

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b4u said:

Here on the East Coast, we sometimes get some huge swells from far off storms and low pressure systems way out to sea.

The weather does not always need to have a storm nearby to have large swells.

Sometimes a couple of different location far away large storms combine to kick in a mean coastline swell for a shortish period.
One that keen surfers keep a close eye out for and take a sickie to get to before its gone, if the wind, tide and sandbanks are aligned to set up awesome wave conditions.

Click to expand...

Thats correct B4u , you can see the storms easily that caused the 2 major swells on 17th and 19th june .

Using the map IC posted from the 18th Newspaper .
Circled on the left is the storm on the 17th.
Circled on the right (18th) is the storm that created the big waves sunday 19th june .

petedavo.au said:

Couldn't get a cray boat large enough to carry a car that close into shore at Cottesloe. There's reefs further out to negotiate, the sea near shore too rough, and how would anyone get a 2 ton car off the boat over the gunwales without capsizing the boat?
Cottesloe Beach is not far from Marine Pre at all. There's an access road all the way to the beach and groyne, which used to be part of the original car park before the Indiana was built in the 1990's, when the carpark had to be moved up-to Marine Parade because the Indiana encroached upon the old car park under the pine trees.

1st pic. Beach on the day of recovery. Note car tracks.

2nd pic. crane on the access road, years later, which was part of the old carpark, before Indiana was built.

3rd pic. People walking across that same carpark where the crane is seen in pic 2
This pic was from the 1980's. Note sand drift across the roadway where they're walking. Thus no drop off between road and beach.

1st pic courtesy of STW channel 7 Perth, as previously posted.

Last 2 pics sourced from West Australian Newspaper, Westpix site, previously posted.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

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Picture 1. Beach day of recovery Ch 7. Tyre tracks are of the 4WD Tow Truck seen in the far mid left of picture IMO, they do not enter the water. Interesting though, as truck must have had to access the beach from far north of the recovery point.

Pic 2 and 3: Sand drift was always different and description in news report from June 1988, made no mention of car tracks on the sand and a one metre drop from the retaining wall including in front of boatshed.

Car in Surf Mystery Deepens (June 1988)snipped. The entry point of the car in the water remains a mystery. There was no evidence such as scrape marks, that the car had been driven or pushed off the groyne. To drive from the service road around the walkway to the groyne would have involved negotiating deep sand drifts that have blown across the walkway.

The other service road went from Marine Parade to the Cottesloe SLSC boatshed. Such an entry would involve running the car off a 1 m concrete retaining wall across a narrow stretch of sand and into the surf...

Commercial boats have own boom cranes to load and offload easily and deck space on cray boats especially is huge and vessel could easily navigate around groyne IMO.

Some examples of commercial charter boats. http://www.kailismarine.com.au/commercial/cap_charter.html

meticulously said:

Thats correct B4u , you can see the storms easily that caused the 2 major swells on 17th and 19th june .

Using the map IC posted from the 18th Newspaper .
Circled on the left is the storm on the 17th.
Circled on the right (18th) is the storm that created the big waves sunday 19th june .

Click to expand...

Am I talking to two different people? The other metic agreed there was no storm in another post as the weather map clearly shows. The first low circle is a weak low which has bought some rain to the lower SW and the second image the low is about 1000km off the coast.

Originally Posted by meticulously
snipped
So i will Agree with IC, that there was not much foul weather to be seen on the main land that suggested the fronts were rough or bad on the weekend prior to mon 20th. So fair enough , the weather wasnt bad enough to say "storm" . They were rather fronts ! Seen here in newspaper, 17th june , a broad front as north as shark bay .

The minimum temperature for Friday 17th June was 16 degrees at 10 pm in the middle of winter. That isn't a storm and the other metic agreed.

The largest swell is 2.5 m on Saturday and Monday 20th with SW winds. I have exact comparison images of what this BOM 2.5 m swell with SW winds is like at Cott beach. It looks very similar to the wave conditions shown in the recovery image of JC's car.

Friday 17[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988: Temp 16.1 at 10.10 pm and 21.5 at 11.30am

Saturday 18[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988: Morning showers. Outlook fine. Temp 14 – 20. West to SW winds 15knots easing to 10 knots by late morning. Seas 1 m on a swell to 2.5 m.
A high pressure ridge was located across the centre of the continent and was producing fine clear conditions with easterly winds in the northern half. Broad frontal cloud band should produce further showers in the southwest. However, these should contract to the lower southwest and coastal parts.

Extended forecast
As the high pressure ridge moves further southwards a return to fine conditions in inland areas should result by this afternoon. Coastal regions should experience isolated showers early this morning. Another weak front should pass near the southwest corner tomorrow, but showers associated with this system should be confined to the far southwest coast.

Source:The West Australian Friday 17th and 18th June 1988.

Innerchild said:

Commercial boats have own boom cranes to load and offload easily and deck space on cray boats especially is huge and vessel could easily navigate around groyne IMO.

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SNIPetty SNIP

Even in the dead of night, wouldn’t someone have heard or seen a whopper of a cray boat invade Cott Beach, do a bogsy lap around the Groyne, and dump a half candy crushed Italian no tomatoes 4 wheeler into the calm seas on that night of a thousand spas?

Innerchild said:

Picture 1. Beach day of recovery Ch 7. Tyre tracks are of the 4WD Tow Truck seen in the far mid left of picture IMO, they do not enter the water. Interesting though, as truck must have had to access the beach from far north of the recovery point.

Pic 2 and 3: Sand drift was always different and description in news report from June 1988, made no mention of car tracks on the sand and a one metre drop from the retaining wall including in front of boatshed.

Car in Surf Mystery Deepens (June 1988)snipped. The entry point of the car in the water remains a mystery. There was no evidence such as scrape marks, that the car had been driven or pushed off the groyne. To drive from the service road around the walkway to the groyne would have involved negotiating deep sand drifts that have blown across the walkway.

The other service road went from Marine Parade to the Cottesloe SLSC boatshed. Such an entry would involve running the car off a 1 m concrete retaining wall across a narrow stretch of sand and into the surf...

Commercial boats have own boom cranes to load and offload easily and deck space on cray boats especially is huge and vessel could easily navigate around groyne IMO.

Some examples of commercial charter boats. http://www.kailismarine.com.au/commercial/cap_charter.html

Click to expand...

IMO one can't assume tyre tracks were made by tow truck or recovery vehicle.
Beach inspectors drive along sand too. And surf club members have access too.

Looks to me like the tow truck parked on the concrete to winch in BLF. Unless I've missed another pic that shows tow truck, being a 4WD type, rescuing car


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

Your wave theories will amount to nought. JC's purse was found at her residence. It might be a decoy by the perp. JC might be in the bush out of Freo. Henderson even.Then the perp drives her car back to near where he lives. Cottesloe.

b4u said:

SNIPetty SNIP

Even in the dead of night, wouldn’t someone have heard or seen a whopper of a cray boat invade Cott Beach, do a bogsy lap around the Groyne, and dump a half candy crushed Italian no tomatoes 4 wheeler into the calm seas on that night of a thousand spas?

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Are you being snippy b4u? Or am I getting too close for comfort for some??

I like this forum as everyone has their own view or way they see things and it can add together to make a complete picture. My background and expertise influences my views and analysis.

I've always lived close to the coast in Perth and could hear fleets of fishing boats leaving most mornings in summer. A fleet leaving makes a low hum if you knew what to listen for or were awake in the hours before dawn. However, compared to hearing a road crash or car bouncing along the groyne rocks, having a boat do a bog lap of Cott would be nothing, it would also be dark at sea and unlikely to be noticed.

I do like your half candy crushed Italian no tomatoes 4 wheeler description, though.

PCS said:

Your wave theories will amount to nought. JC's purse was found at her residence. It might be a decoy by the perp. JC might be in the bush out of Freo. Henderson even.Then the perp drives her car back to near where he lives. Cottesloe.

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It’s quite common for females to leave their purse at home when going out for the evening. For a number of reasons, may not fit in evening bag, not wanting to lose cards etc. I do not see this as unusual.


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I do.

PCS said:

I do.

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If you have an evening event and you take a clutch bag - your purse won’t fit in it - so I guess the question is what type of bag did JC have?


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PCS said:

I do.

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Congrats PCS

I hope you 2 are very happy together.

Spooks-R-Us said:

IMO one can't assume tyre tracks were made by tow truck or recovery vehicle.
Beach inspectors drive along sand too. And surf club members have access too.

Looks to me like the tow truck parked on the concrete to winch in BLF. Unless I've missed another pic that shows tow truck, being a 4WD type, rescuing car


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

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I've mentioned the two truck a few times and pointed it out in this image. I'm glad you've mentioned the beach inspectors or rangers or what ever they were called then. They may have made these tracks and are paid by the council to patrol the beach every week day. That was one of my reasons why the car would have been noticed the day it went in the water. They were on the beach by 7.00 am every day even winter.

Surf club member had no vehicle access to beach. Skis and board were carried up and back to the clubhouse, which is the building high on the top of the hill to the south of the boatshed. Surf boats were carried and rolled into boat shed.

Innerchild said:

I've mentioned the two truck a few times and pointed it out in this image. I'm glad you've mentioned the beach inspectors or rangers or what ever they were called then. They may have made these tracks and are paid by the council to patrol the beach every week day. That was one of my reasons why the car would have been noticed the day it went in the water. They were on the beach by 7.00 am every day even winter.

Surf club member had no vehicle access to beach. Skis and board were carried up and back to the clubhouse, which is the building high on the top of the hill to the south of the boatshed. Surf boats were carried and rolled into boat shed.

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Just because they patrolled the beach doesn't mean they would or could see the BLF soon after it hit the water.

Patrols were looking for swimmers in danger and weren't on the look out for submerged Fiats!

And no, my mentioning that the beach was patrolled was not validating your point mentioning the car would've been seen soon after it was dumped. Uh rrrrrr
No way


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

It does look like a key, maybe police divers have tried to refasten the boot to secure it down before it was towed to forensics and accident investigators who incidentally, would have been able to tell if Julie's car had been t-boned prior. So I think we may dispel any notions of another car's involvement. If there had been, it's such a great lead imo we'd have known about it.

Most people have all their keys on the one ring, where's the rest of them? House key etc., could the offender have taken them?

Innerchild said:

The key looks to be definitely in the boot before it is clear of the water and possibly in all the images. Recovering the Fiat would have been a long process and tide was clearly going out as you can see the wet sand. Could have been afternoon before they had the Fiat clear of the water. They would have looked in boot before then IMO. However it does seem sloppy not to close or lock boot again before the Fiat was fully upright.

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Spooks-R-Us said:

yes sloppy - and IMO about as sloppy as handling kimono evidence with bare hands.

Policing protocols and processes weren't obviously that strict re forensics back then.

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Just a thought: could the key be in the boot because police decided to check there wasn't a body in there before winching the car out?

Spinnaker said:

If you have an evening event and you take a clutch bag - your purse won’t fit in it - so I guess the question is what type of bag did JC have?


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The bag was distinctive according to this report and image. It looks big enough to have money in it, whether it is in the purse or not. Is it possible someone placed the purse back in her home after the abduction? Don't know why, but not much makes sense in this case.


Source: The West Australian. June 1988. Missing Julie, Murder 'Seems Certain'