Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

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ZoriahNZ said:
Forgive my ignorance, but do people who are close to the deceased not have a say in who gets to attend a funeral? I'm not comfortable around people who are just acquaintances, I dislike any gathering of public crowds, but I have felt pressured to attend funerals of those whom I knew and were friends with, no matter how 'slight' that friendship might have been over the years. Perhaps it's a societal thing, but believe me, if I could have gotten away with not attending I wouldn't have attended, but I owed those people a show of respect for their lives, their connection to me, and their impact on others. It's sad to think that their loved ones might have thought I was intruding upon their grief. That's the last thing I would have wanted.
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I have had several family members pass unexpectedly and I felt comfort in seeing the large number of people who showed up to pay their respects. It was amazing to see the impact my loved one’s life had on so many people that I never knew about. I heard neat little stories and memories from people that were so beautiful; I discovered that my loved one was just as amazing to others as they were to me.


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New here. So go easy on me for my simplistic theory.

If I understand correctly, there was underground parking?

Honey could have been carjacked outside somewhere, and forced to drive back to her house.

Driving her own car back home into garage/parking would not arouse suspicions.

Perp hides/ducks down in car as they drive in. Honey has electronic means to access garage/doors/pass security and is forced to use it.

Honey could have even been forced to shut her own security system off REMOTELY before they even neared the property.

From underground parking we are possibly near/at level of the (windowless?) pool. From there Honey is either presented as hostage to husband and/or killed and dragged to pool.

Either way, the perp is now in control, and the ugly hanging deed gets done.

Only issue is perp leaving the scene. Well, if security system is already shut off, then perimeters / house security is blown.

Perp awaits/exits in cover of darkness.

Discuss. . .
 
Ice Tea said:
New here. So go easy on me for my simplistic theory.

If I understand correctly, there was underground parking?

Honey could have been carjacked outside somewhere, and forced to drive back to her house.

Driving her own car back home into garage/parking would not arouse suspicions.

Perp hides/ducks down in car as they drive in. Honey has electronic means to access garage/doors/pass security and is forced to use it.

Honey could have even been forced to shut her own security system off REMOTELY before they even neared the property.

From underground parking we are possibly near/at level of the (windowless?) pool. From there Honey is either presented as hostage to husband and/or killed and dragged to pool.

Either way, the perp is now in control, and the ugly hanging deed gets done.

Only issue is perp leaving the scene. Well, if security system is already shut off, then perimeters / house security is blown.

Perp awaits/exits in cover of darkness.

Discuss. . .
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Welcome to WS, Ice Tea. :seeya: Great first post. It certainly could have happened that way. Do you think it was a random hijacking or someone who knew them?
 
Had to be somebody who knew them. Possibly knew their routine, had to be watching them. Somebody knew only two of them were home!! That house could have been loaded with other guests. Even "sleepover" guests. Somebody was studying & watching.

A random carjacking is supposed to somehow extort money/gain. We don't know yet if perp tried to extort funds, but hanging them is a lot of trouble if they don't comply.
 
Just a quick one in response to those thinking it was a very large funeral. I presumed it was a memorial service - not the funeral. The funeral would be more private and religious in tone, not in a convention centre. I was under the impression that the coffins were empty. Famous people often have a large scale memorial service and a quiet funeral.

Under jewish law there are specific rules to follow with funerals - they have to be done very quickly so they are probably in a hurry to get the bodies released and a second autopsy done. Though usually I'd expect a memorial service to happen later, after the funeral. Maybe they just needed to do something in the wake of all the speculation and grief after this tragedy.

I have to say it was very moving watching the children and hearing Jonathan's words. It is very, very hard to imagine it being anything other than double murder after hearing it. So tragic and completely perplexing. At first I had thought it likely to be a murder suicide - we cannot know what goes on inside self contained introvert's heads - people who suddenly snap (though of course not most introverts), but hearing the family and understanding more about their ceremonies and family rituals, a close knit jewish family, and the manner of their deaths its just really hard to see it as anything other than a macabre, deeply disturbing and tragic double murder.

JMOO...
 
JDG said:
Thank you for agreeing with my post. I do feel, however, that frugality has its limits. When you are the 15th wealthiest person in the country, a multi Billionaire, it would be prudent to take some measures to protect yourself. Perhaps he was a bit naive.
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I find it odd how frugal he was. Verging on mental illness if you ask me. There is nothing frugal about driving a car in to the ground. Breakdowns and repairs become frequent, costing valuable time. Time is money, and when you are as wealthy as Sherman, what does half a day in a repair shop cost you?
 
Something that I haven't seen discussed here is insurance policies. Certainly these people had a ton of life insurance. I know that unless there is a suicide clause built in to your policy, it is not valid if you kill yourself. I wonder if this plays in to the family's denial of LE's suicide theory at all?
 
andreww said:
I find it odd how frugal he was. Verging on mental illness if you ask me. There is nothing frugal about driving a car in to the ground. Breakdowns and repairs become frequent, costing valuable time. Time is money, and when you are as wealthy as Sherman, what does half a day in a repair shop cost you?
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Doesn't strike me as odd at all. Some of his actions remind me of my own father, who was also a successful businessman (though not a billionaire!). It makes financial sense...and common sense not to throw out and buy new all the time. I rather admire it.

jmo
 
Further to article linked in first thread, which said that Honey had registered a property in her own name last year, it turns out it was the same one they were demolishing and rebuilding, from this article -

About a year ago, on Nov. 30, 2016, Ms. Sherman became the registered owner of a house in Forest Hill that used to belong to the late Al Green, a philanthropist and founder of Greenrock Property Management Ltd.

"They wanted the house. Mrs. Sherman had approached me, expressing interest and we made an arrangement, it worked out very well … they were going to build a new home," Mr. Green's son Barry said in an interview on Wednesday.

Earlier this fall, the Shermans obtained building permits to demolish Mr. Green's house and construct a new two-storey detached dwelling with an integral garage.
They also listed their North York house for sale.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...s-of-barry-and-honey-sherman/article37400589/
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andreww said:
Something that I haven't seen discussed here is insurance policies. Certainly these people had a ton of life insurance. I know that unless there is a suicide clause built in to your policy, it is not valid if you kill yourself. I wonder if this plays in to the family's denial of LE's suicide theory at all?
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If their personal net worth is $4 billion, what sort of life insurance would be required? It’s basically pointless.

As for suicide clauses the old standard was that they were voided after two years, and I think it has since been relaxed.

It is is possible that Apotex had a key man policy on Barry Sherman, but I can’t see that being a big concern especially as it is unlikely a suicide would affect coverage.
 
andreww said:
I find it odd how frugal he was. Verging on mental illness if you ask me. There is nothing frugal about driving a car in to the ground. Breakdowns and repairs become frequent, costing valuable time. Time is money, and when you are as wealthy as Sherman, what does half a day in a repair shop cost you?
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I would wager that Barry Sherman didn’t hang around the repair shop when his car was being serviced. Happy to be proven wrong.
 
I can't imagine these intricate deaths being carried out without some evidence of a third person at the scene.
 
andreww said:
I find it odd how frugal he was. Verging on mental illness if you ask me. There is nothing frugal about driving a car in to the ground. Breakdowns and repairs become frequent, costing valuable time. Time is money, and when you are as wealthy as Sherman, what does half a day in a repair shop cost you?
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I read an excellent book years ago by a sociologist who did a detailed, years-long study of millionaires. (The Millionaire Next Door is the title I believe.) First generation millionaires get to BE millionaires by being frugal and hard-working is the gist of the study. And a shocking number of them never do what WE - the unwashed masses of hundredaires - think that millionaires do. Really interesting book.
 
kiwi50 said:
Interesting that Jonathon alluded to going through surrogacy himself. Was his partner at memorial?
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I believe his partner was there. Jonathan said his partners name...I believe he is in a same sex relationship, hence the need for surrogacy. Someone correct me if I am wrong,
 
andreww said:
I find it odd how frugal he was. Verging on mental illness if you ask me. There is nothing frugal about driving a car in to the ground. Breakdowns and repairs become frequent, costing valuable time. Time is money, and when you are as wealthy as Sherman, what does half a day in a repair shop cost you?
Click to expand...

That's usually not what we mean by "driving a car into the ground" - when it spends more time in the shop and starts having high repair costs, it's not very frugal unless you repair your own cars. But when you do the recommended maintenance on a regular basis, which helps keep things from breaking in the first place, you can keep an old car very frugally, and remotely modern cars can be reliable for a long time if you take care of them. I have an economy car that will be turning 15 soon.
 
Tortoise said:
Further to article linked in first thread, which said that Honey had registered a property in her own name last year, it turns out it was the same one they were demolishing and rebuilding, from this article -
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:thinking: I guess Barry wasn't as frugal with their housing as he was with his car. Honey is the one who ended up getting him a newer car. I wouldn't be surprised if the new home was Honey's idea and maybe Barry wasn't happy about it.
 
Inthedetails said:
I am the opposite. I will go to funerals of acquaintances if I can. It's a comfort to the grieving family. I was so grateful to the people who showed up at each of my parents' funerals. I understand some people don't want to attend, but after my father's funeral, I made a promise I would show up whenever I could for someone else.

Everyone is different.

jmo
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I'm there if I can to support the family and honor their loved one.
The company I work for is a little over 100 employees.
If there were a funeral for the spouse of a work colleague (who many of us never met or know by name only), we would typically shut down for the day and make it a point to attend the funeral.
 
Inthedetails said:
Doesn't strike me as odd at all. Some of his actions remind me of my own father, who was also a successful businessman (though not a billionaire!). It makes financial sense...and common sense not to throw out and buy new all the time. I rather admire it.

jmo
Click to expand...

I heard that Sam Walton ( Walmart Founder, and multi-Billionaire) had some of the same characteristics -- worked very hard, loved to drive his old truck with his hunting hounds in the back, and Warren Buffet drives a modest car that is not always the newest model, as well as living in the same middle-income type of home he bought I think in the 60's sometime. People who have money are often frugal. If they are self-made, that is usually a factor in how they became wealthy. It also is a security factor, not drawing attention to yourself with a flashy new car.

I saw some videos of the Shermans on You Tube. They both look like pleasant, well adjusted people to me. IMO
 
JDG said:
He always drove older vehicles and was quite proud about running them into the ground. Honey would get him a newer (not new) model.
I doubt he would ever drive a new car, maybe a matter of pride or his frugality.

Not having a security system just tells me that he felt quite comfortable in that neighbourhood where his family had lived for many years. JMO
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His unwillingness to spend money on things he saw a unimportant, like a new car, shouldn't be surprising - many very wealthy people are frugal and some are even real cheapskates. The most notorious example is 19th century millionaire Hetty Green: when her son developed an infection in his leg, she refused to take him to a doctor because doctors charge for their services and she didn't want to pay. The infection worsened and eventually the leg had to be amputated. Just because you have lots of money doesn't mean you want to spend it.
 
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