Rogue DNA

JMO8778 said:

good thoughts there,IF PR did it,one thing that comes to mind is that thumbprint on her neck,as well as her neck was likely very red after being manually strangled.If she went to get JR,one would think he would have held out some hope and called 911.BUT...(I'm not sure they thought to feel her head at that point),he didn't b/c there was no way they could say it was an accident with her neck looking like that...at that point,they could no longer say she fell down the steps or something.
If PR did it,I think he aided and abetted her in it b/c he was worried about his image and his business..that would have been way beyond embarrassing for him.I think he would have been far to angry with her to feel sorry for her.
But yes,he did appear far too anxious to be seen on tv and in church,(as well as HE was the one who wanted to get out of town asap after JB was found)so much so that I think he's guilty of something,the least maybe being sexual abuse of JB..which he knew would be found at the autopsy.

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HE was the one who wanted to get out of town asap after JB was found)so much so that I think he's guilty of something,the least maybe being sexual abuse of JB..which he knew would be found at the autopsy.

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JB..which he knew would be found at the autopsy.

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Solace said:

Yes, lets; because any proRamsey reading this line of thinking would be positive that the Ramseys are innocent and they are not. That line of thinking is exactly what John Ramsey would want posted so he could say "you see how insane these people are".

Patsy did it in a rage and John covered for her.

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Ames said:

The End!!

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UKGuy said:

JMO8778,



There is no reason to discount the possibility that John killed JonBenet and was assisted in the staging by Patsy.

Both knew about her death, both are linked, by forensic evidence, to the wine-cellar crime-scene, that neither pointed the finger at the other, suggests collusion, and the hiring of separate attorney's implies individual guilt?


But this a good attorney would claim has nothing to do with her death, maybe she was being molested at school, maybe she was being molested at the pageants, and if you stage her death as a lust murder then this can also explain away any prior injuries, but evidence of prior sexual molestation, on its own, cannot demonstrate that John was responsible, and the reason for this is, JonBenet is dead, she cannot speak, she is a silent witness.

So not dialling 911 and requesting medical assistance for JonBenet, tells you her killer did not want her to be talking to anyone, discovering evidence of sexual molestation after she cannot speak, is no longer relevant.

Patsy must have known all about this to go along with it, she was not particularly surprised when she was told the investigators had evidence that JonBenet had previously been chronically abused, not a tear, would it not cause any mother anguish to realize what her daughter had been suffering, which is now compounded by her death?

Why this response, why not a memory lapse, or a hanky moment, why a confrontational attitude, because she knew at some point, that question was coming, and she was expecting this question precisely because she colluded in the sexual abuse of JonBenet.


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Dru said:

Ames, I do respect you and the amount of time and effort you've put into this.

But can you explain some things for me?

1) If toilet rage was the motive for the death, why put the urine-soaked longjohns back on JBR? Why not redress her completely in something that wasn't soaked with urine?

2) Who decided to inflict the sexual wound? Remember, even if the parents REALLY didn't know JBR's heart was still beating, it was, when this wound was inflicted, meaning that it had to have been inflicted relatively soon after the head wound (no more than an hour at the outside limit). So who said, oh, gee, looks like she's dead, no, don't bother calling 911, oh, I know, let's make it look like a sex crime, hey, hand me that paintbrush? It just seems so implausible.

Thanks!

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Dru said:

I don't agree with UKGuy's theory, but I do think that JR is the killer, and that covering up sexual abuse may well have been the motive of this crime. Hi Dru, it is possible but I don't think so. I think it is a rage assault.

I've mentioned her before, but has anyone read [SIZE=-1]Marilyn Van Derbur Atler's story? This former Miss America was molested by her father until she was eighteen! Outwardly, she was a child a lot like JBR: bright, confident, vivacious, a 'pageant kid' who seemed to have everything going for her. But beginning at age FIVE her own father sexually abused her, and the abuse continued until she left home for college! [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]An early article about JBR actually mentioned that Boulder Police at one point consulted with Ms. Atler on the subject of her incest experiences. So to brush the sexual abuse theory aside as if it has somehow been proved that PR lost her temper when JBR awoke with damp sheets and that any other theory is groundless is going a bit too far, IMHO. I know she was contacted by the Boulder Police and I have read her story - a grim one indeed. And I am not passively dismissing the sexual abuse theory. I am open to there may have been abuse, but I lean towards there was not. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]I can see PR 'losing it.' I can see PR panicking. I can see PR frantically shaking JBR, too.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]But I can't see the cold cautious JR being summoned by her to "help" and then not calling 911, but instead carrying JBR down to the basement, inflicting the sexual wound on the still-living child, strangling her with the rope, and engaging in all the elaborate cover-up that went on that night, for no other reason than to keep PR out of jail. Steve Thomas agrees with you. But I disagree. I think he realized the head wound was fatal and he could feel it, that the skull was split in two all the way to the bridge of her nose, and Patsy was probably near convulsing with what she had done and JB was probably no where near responding. I could see him helping her.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]The person that committed this crime is someone who does become enraged when he feels threatened (by a questioner, and by a child threatening to tell, or showing signs of noncompliance perhaps?). But once the unthinkable has occurred, the rest of the crime shows careful thought and attention to detail, to the extent that time allowed for it. I believe that every single element of the staging can be accounted for if JR is seen as responsible for the crime instead of PR; further, I think her own clumsy innovations/interferences are clearly hers, and would have hampered JR considerably if these clumsy things hadn't ended up focusing LE's attention on her![/SIZE]

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UKGuy said:

Dru,

Also dont forget, the other inconsistency, why go to the bother of inflicting an alleged staged sexual assault, then wipe JonBenet down and bury this beneath her blankets, underwear and longjohns which as you point out were urine-stained, so patently hiding a Toilet Rage incident was not uppermost in the killers mind? Well someone put the blanket on her and wrapped her papoose style. That is a loving thing to do UK, so that staging there is strong evidence that someone who loved JB was prepping her and wiping her down in an effort to clean her up before they leave her forever is not unheard of, as much as you would like it to be.

So there are two not one major inconsistencies in the accident theory, there is a third which is not as compelling as those two. Nope.

JonBenet's death was no accident ...

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Dru said:

Ames, I do respect you and the amount of time and effort you've put into this.

But can you explain some things for me?

1) If toilet rage was the motive for the death, why put the urine-soaked longjohns back on JBR? Why not redress her completely in something that wasn't soaked with urine? Maybe Patsy woke her up to go to the bathroom before she went to bed and JonBenet did not want to get up and rage ensued. Why are you assuming that the longjohns were urine soaked. Maybe they did not get urine soaked until she was garrotted.

2) Who decided to inflict the sexual wound? Remember, even if the parents REALLY didn't know JBR's heart was still beating, it was, when this wound was inflicted, meaning that it had to have been inflicted relatively soon after the head wound (no more than an hour at the outside limit). So who said, oh, gee, looks like she's dead, no, don't bother calling 911, oh, I know, let's make it look like a sex crime, hey, hand me that paintbrush? It just seems so implausible.

Thanks!

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SuperDave said:

What's that old saying, UKGuy?

"Two people can keep a secret and that's if one of them is dead."

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Solace said:

It was a rage accident.

Who is to say that JB did not urinate in the longjohns after she was garrotted. She is unconscious at this point and the garrotting is a staging and she urinated. They probably thought she was dead when they staged the garrotting.

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UKGuy said:

Solace,

The police and the investigators, since if she wet her longjohns after being garroted and wrapped in those blankets, then the blankets should contain urine too. The police and the investigators (what?) To answer the rest of your question. Why should the blanket have urine on it. And do you know how much urine we are talking about?

Also you do not know the location where JonBenet was wrapped in those blankets do you? No, do you? But I am assuming she was wrapped right before she was placed there or she was wrapped in the basement.

She may have been wrapped upstairs, and then brought down to the basement already wrapped in blankets, because the original plan had been to dump her outdoors? And she could have been garrotted upstairs. But then again you already said no to that one, yes?

Also if JonBenet had a staged sexual assault why is there no blood stains on her longjohns? Why does their have to be blood stains on her longjohns? The staged sexual assault comes after the headblow, the blood is not running freely, so why?

If it was simply an accident as you suggest and there was no sexual abuse why was JonBenet denied medical assistance? Because when Patsy heard that ever loud crack as JonBenet's skull split in two, she decided, after checking her head, that JonBenet was dead, and she was pretty much right.

Because it was no accident. Not in the everyday sense of the word. But if she had to do it over again, Patsy would not have done it. So I am going to call it a rage accident - you know like "what have I done". That sort of thing.


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UKGuy said:

SuperDave,

Absolutely, otherwise why deny JonBenet medical assistance?


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How is that for starters.

Solace said:

Welllllllllll, maybe because Patsy knew she would at the very least be charged with reckless homicide (since the crack in JonBenet's skull extended the length of her head and she likely was dead or dying) and Patsy didn't want to be charged with it. She probably knew her chances of living more than 10 years were nil, and did not want to spend her last years in jail.

How is that for starters.

Many have killed for that reason alone.

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Ames said:

Just wondered if you ever get tired of repeating yourself??? I gave up a long time ago.

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Solace said:

It was a rage accident.

Who is to say that JB did not urinate in the longjohns after she was garrotted. She is unconscious at this point and the garrotting is a staging and she urinated. They probably thought she was dead when they staged the garrotting.

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Solace said:

Lets say Patsy threw her against the tub after she dragged her from the bed, we know that someone was strangling her, they left her thumbprint and so enraged was that person that she dragged her from the bed and threw her into the bathtub near the toilet. A loud crack was heard, because that crack was JB'S skull splitting. John and Patsy had to have felt the crack in her head. It is not implausible that John would take over and make a garrotte and stage a sex crime, not if he wants to save his wife. It is not it looks like she is dead, they can feel the split in her skull.

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Solace said:

Welllllllllll, maybe because Patsy knew she would at the very least be charged with reckless homicide (since the crack in JonBenet's skull extended the length of her head and she likely was dead or dying) and Patsy didn't want to be charged with it. She probably knew her chances of living more than 10 years were nil, and did not want to spend her last years in jail.

How is that for starters.

Many have killed for that reason alone.

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Solace said:

It was a rage accident.

Who is to say that JB did not urinate in the longjohns after she was garrotted. She is unconscious at this point and the garrotting is a staging and she urinated. They probably thought she was dead when they staged the garrotting.

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