Forensic Astrology - CAYLEE ANTHONY Reported Missing 7/15/2008: #3

Tuba - I see that Saturn in Virgo in house 6 is inconjunct Neptune in Aquarius in house 12 - ?possible someone becomes ill during the proceedings?

The candle is slowly burning out for the A's .

Their last hope for any appearance of credibility is gone, that being MN.

Their empty house must be deafening...am waiting for GA to BREAK

AquarianEssence said:

Saturn can be any type of person in a position of authority so doesn't need to be older. Also, the 11th could indicate some type of group endeavor, even a child kidnapping or pedophile ring, a gang, any type of group endeavor.

Connie

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I think you should have explained a pinch more about this and why it could include children for those not savvy in astrology.

The 11th house usually signifies group, community, civilization on a greater scale.

The 5th house governs children, dramatic arts, creativity, romance, etc.

The 5th and 11th houses are on the same axis and are therefore extensions of each other.

Interesting note, Connie.


For those interested in studying horary astrology, I found this website:

http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/horary.html

Take a look at this site too:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary.html

aksleuth, thanks bunches for the links!

aksleuth said:

I think you should have explained a pinch more about this and why it could include children for those not savvy in astrology.

The 11th house usually signifies group, community, civilization on a greater scale.

The 5th house governs children, dramatic arts, creativity, romance, etc.

The 5th and 11th houses are on the same axis and are therefore extensions of each other.

Interesting note, Connie.


For those interested in studying horary astrology, I found this website:

http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/horary.html

Take a look at this site too:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary.html

Click to expand...

Yes, each axis works together, when in balance and integrated. The 11th is other people's children, adopted or surrogate children too so would be involved with child care providers, besides showing up through the work axis. I also see the 11th house showing up strongly with forums like this one, along with internet or other technology. The forensic evidence might fall here too since it is a science. Astrology is also said to come from the 11th.

Welcome AquarianEssence!
Thank you so much for your input.
Like many others have said, this is the most interesting threads here at WS for me and the reason I joined. All of you guys hard work and insight is most appreciated!

Tuesday, as marked in the center of the chart, is ruled by Mars, and the hour set to hear motions coming out of this case is ruled by the Sun. The part of misfortune is 7:02 Pisces and Mars squares the part. Prosecution is asking for a Mercurial matter, the gag order and that should be taken up and argued first. (Because Defense has a whole set of motions to present for rulings) Mercury rules the Prosecution and its request, Virgo on H. 7.

After the time devoted to the Prosecution's request for a gag order, Aries will take the horizon, ruled by Mars. Mercury and Mars will dispute the motion heatedly. Sun in the Sign of news dissemination Sagittarius, will also argue for openness, 1st Amendment interests, public's right to hear, etc. As discussed earlier, the quintile promises a worthy debate, edge to the Prosecution. Mercury is quintile Saturn: impressive!

Venus, ruler of the intercept in the Prosecution's House, is elevated and in its element, Earth. The judge is favorably disposed toward the conduct and arguments the Prosecution will make.

Expert witnesses are forensic witnesses and the experts important to the evidence in this case deal with the human minutiae of Virgo. Lawyers have horrible nicknames for them because they sell themselves & their testimony to one side or the other much of the time. Juries are impressed, nonetheless. Because they are not disinterested nor objective, they can appear as "no friend to the court". Saturn in H. 6 in Virgo disserves the public, the Defense and the Prosecution. Though a drag on the Defense and a problem for the team (Saturn is saying lack of evidence, insufficiency) they are in the Twelfth House of the Prosecution and thus a hidden enemy to that side as well.

If such testimony were expert analysis free of the taint of bias, the witnesses would be a friend to one and all. By nature of the legal system, the Prosecution and the Defense are fully loaded advocates, pushing everything that favors the side they represent, ignoring & refuting everything that does not. That does not pretend to be the whole truth, it is at best one side of the truth. But an expert witness is charged with giving his best and purest opinion. Justice often depends on it so they needs must be held to that standard or the trial mocks the most basic principle and the reason behind the oath.

Thank you Scarlet. My pleasure. This case has interested me for some time as well a the McCann case but I have to try and squeeze it in after my work with my clients is finished and homeschooling priorities under control so there is never enough time. My dream for the last year is to formulate a precise way to exactly locate missing people.

Tuba, excuse me for interjecting, but I believe that the ascendant is always the prosecution and plaintiff, the descendant is the defendant, just as Mars is the aggressor and Venus the one that sometimes needs to defend herself in order to balance the scales of justice or make war as a last resort. When I studied a series of legal charts, even when the defendant filed a motion or appealed to the higher court, she still was the descendant rather than ascendant because in this case she was named the defendant. Correct me if you have knowledge otherwise though. I'm an eternal student.

Connie

Yes, I have found otherwise. Baez sought this hearing and thus initiated the action for this hearing on the criminal calendar. Prosecution's motion was held over from an earlier essay to obtain a ruling.

Baez also took the Aries ASC when he filed a l. action against Zenaida. In this chart for Tuesday, 25 November, Casey's Sun is first to rise. It is the Mercury ruled Virgo Prosecution who is seeking the Saturn gag and in quintile with all that it represents.

I have to respectfully disagree. the ascendant and descendant should describe what both parties are seeking to back up who is who. In this case, Pisces represents silence or the gag order and Virgo isn't too likely to be silenced as she spits out all the details. Baez is asking for evidence which is also ruled by his significator, Mercury. Also, Mercury so likes to multi task, describing his multiple requests or motions. Mercury also rules the media. Lily was quite detailed about legal procedures and his work seems to hold up to scrutiny.

I think you should use what works for you. Astrological writers are in conspicuous contention over who holds H. 1 and 7 and this can be seen in works that treat buyer vs. seller. There are similar arguments about the ASC DSC in event charts. If you feel the P should always take the First House, fine. I just look at it differently, in terms of the initiator.

AquarianEssence said:

Thank you Scarlet. My pleasure. This case has interested me for some time as well a the McCann case but I have to try and squeeze it in after my work with my clients is finished and homeschooling priorities under control so there is never enough time. My dream for the last year is to formulate a precise way to exactly locate missing people.
Tuba, excuse me for interjecting, but I believe that the ascendant is always the prosecution and plaintiff, the descendant is the defendant, just as Mars is the aggressor and Venus the one that sometimes needs to defend herself in order to balance the scales of justice or make war as a last resort. When I studied a series of legal charts, even when the defendant filed a motion or appealed to the higher court, she still was the descendant rather than ascendant because in this case she was named the defendant. Correct me if you have knowledge otherwise though. I'm an eternal student.

Connie

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my bold
Welcome to our thread AquarianEssence. The beautiful thing about this Astro thread is our seasoned Astro contributors respectfully confer amongst themselves and present actual charts and analysis along with 'layman' language so the rest of us can attempt to grasp the depth of this science.

Can you expand upon your prospective and analysis as to the LOCATION of Caylee?
CAYLEE is so worth it. She is why we have all come together. Power in numbers.

Looking at today's collected news on the case at google, I see that both Channel 9 and The Orlando Sentinel, as hoped, will argue against the gag order requested by the prosecution. Sun in Sagittarius for the two entities. Their arguments are persuasive and weighty. The Sun participates in the quintile to Saturn.

I think this will be an important hearing and I hope there are cameras in the courtroom, because of the Jupiter - Neptune sextile, the judge should favor televising the proceeding. The Uranus Neptune mutual reception is useful in these circumstances because there is a taped record even if the live telecast is unavailable or interrupted.

Speaking of Neptune, the prisoner's absence is notable once again and Pluto at the H. 10 Cusp at 29:57 Sagittarius is pressure for an appearance as it denotes someone important to the case missing. John Morgan planned to have cameras in for his deposing of Casey. He made all dates this week available; has she not agreed to any!!?

Tuba said:

Looking at today's collected news on the case at google, I see that both Channel 9 and The Orlando Sentinel, as hoped, will argue against the gag order requested by the prosecution. Sun in Sagittarius for the two entities. Their arguments are persuasive and weighty. The Sun participates in the quintile to Saturn.

I think this will be an important hearing and I hope there are cameras in the courtroom, because of the Jupiter - Neptune sextile, the judge should favor televising the proceeding. The Uranus Neptune mutual reception is useful in these circumstances because there is a taped record even if the live telecast is unavailable or interrupted.

Speaking of Neptune, the prisoner's absence is notable once again and Pluto at the H. 10 Cusp at 29:57 Sagittarius is pressure for an appearance as it denotes someone important to the case missing. John Morgan planned to have cameras in for his deposing of Casey. He made all dates this week available; has she not agreed to any!!?

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I can't resist saying this here (and I'm being as conservative as I possibly can be at the moment as I am un-nerved by her 'getting over' on people and sliming away from being responsible for her actions): I wanna watch her squirm like the snake she is and watch her work her many faces for those present and the cameras of course.
I did get the impression Mr. Morgan was going to pursue that 'appearance' route if possible.

I see that the part of misfortune for Tuesday's hearing is the prisoner cusp for her filing of a countersuit/motion to dismiss ZFG's action. That seems, for now, to be "her" degree. Of course it is minutes away from her natal Jupiter,which is 6° + Pisces. Leinbach's degrees terms it a degree of confusion, many ups and downs and changes of direction. Extremes, possible possession. Watching John Morgan's interview by a local reporter, I did think he was determined to expose her, absolutely.

She was emotionally fraught on Wednesday and I doubt she has recovered from her personal crisis. Kaitland focused on the sickness connotation to the Saturn Neptune inconjunct, which is real, of course. That aspect also represents the need for the Defense to pay the expert witnesses. That might be a hefty bill. The inconjunct is also her refusal to come down from the fantasy, her refusal to provide truthful information and how it puts her at strain with searchers, LE, FBI, public, prosecutors.

The chart for 12:50pm June 16 when George A last saw them leave, shows the Moon with a strong Southward pull, just after one of the high tides of the day, with an increasing Westward pull. The Sawgrass apartments are NorthWest from the Anthony home, about 300*. From the tower to Sawgrass is about 73* NW, the same exact angle as Moon to ascendant. So, it looks as though the tower is better to measure from than their home. All of the odd pings from 1 to 21 are at this tower. The even numbered pings are at the South tower.

Even when Moon goes void with the conjunction to Pluto, she is able to operate when in Jupiter's home because she makes him such a welcome guest in hers. Jupiter preserves and protects the family, much like a guardian angle, which is why they have such a natural rapport. Some say that Jupiter rules children but I'm not quite sure what this is based on, other than perhaps because Jupiter multiplies in order to make the earth fruitful, just as the Moon-mother does. This ability to operate even while void may be compared, in this case, to the ability to trace her movements, even when not using her phone because of the signals the cell phone company sends out periodically.

The ascendant would rule George with the descendant ruling Casey and Caylee because the ascendant is the entrance door, the descendant being the exit where the Sun enters the grave each day, so to speak. Pisces fits the mystery surrounding all of this, her incarceration, along with all the apparent lies. It also fits two of them leaving but one headed in an opposite direction as the other. But notice both are Rx indicating that both will return to where they are leaving. Also notice an accident or other unexpected event waiting to happen with Uranus in the 7th, in mutual reception with Neptune. It could also represent an explosion of sorts or sudden movements. Whenever Pisces is involved, things aren't quite what they appear to be, which is why I'm not quick to jump to conclusions. Pisces rules dreams, other planes of existence, things that aren't tangible or easy to see with the normal eye.

Recent contacts from Moon were square Saturn and contraparallel Sun and Venus, just before entering Sag. This likely represents any argument they had regarding her lack of self discipline. The relationship may have been in crisis mode, shown by the node degrees, those on the IC/MC and with Moon and Saturn nearly in a critical degree. He may have told her she needs to get a job or she may have said she was going to work.

I can't help but notice that Mars is also at a critical degree, conjunct the S. node in her house of work. I've often wondered if she may really work for Universal after all, but that it must be hidden because of the nature of her work. Here, I see the distinct possibility that she works as an escort and/or in the field of entertainment. The karmic degrees of all Hallows eve and Beltain on 3/9 support this possibility. Beltain (notice Bel hidden in this name, also tattooed on Casey's shoulder) is the cross quarter festival that celebrates fertility in the springtime, May 5 when the Sun reaches karmic 15*. At one time, everyone set aside their marital vows for that one night and coupled with whomever. Any child born of that union was sacred and was dedicated to temple service. And of course, the holiday opposite is Halloween, the time we honor the dead that have come before us.
Neptune's degree can indicate a mental imbalance, even homicidal tendancies under the right circumstances. It can indicate a photographer. I can't help but notice all of the pictures Casey took.

The Sabien for the descendant representing Casey, is a butterfly with the right wing more perfectly formed. If we consider this the right hemisphere of the brain, she may be not as logical as some, working more from the creative forces. This reminds me of Casey's natal Sunrise chart (used when time is unknown) which shows a t-square imbalance with Moon opposing Neptune square Venus. She likely has a hard time balancing (Libra lacking) and blending her role as both mother and vital woman. Venus in Aries has a lot of drive, sexual or otherwise.

Jupiter's degree is said to be like a relay race, dedicated to service, cooperative and planned group behavior. If negative, a complete lack of cooperation and ability to supply self-resource.

Uranus must also be looked at as a co-significator. This is the planet of the unexpected, rebellion, accidents and explosive nature. This degree is one of a materializing medium summoning weird ghostly shapes. Charubal says this degree rising indicates unexpected and disastrous loss of life, not fated but tending on the same course as already indicated. If negative it is instability and confused perspective. Uranus would magnify that.

While this may be a degree of non fated upheaval or disaster, there are two yod formations that do indicate fate involved. Mars is the finger of the first and tightest, inconjunct both Jupiter and Uranus. Now, this could be pointing to an illness, Mars in her 6th, or to her goal to go to work, if she had a job, Jupiter in her 11th, also ruling her career and boss. Jupiter would also represent her parent, usually the mother or same sex parent in this case. It could possibly indicate an explosive temper. But, with Jupiter Rx it looks more like the energy would be directed inward rather than outward, attracting any of the Mars energy toward self, whether Casey or Caley.

The other hand of God or yod is pointing a sextile between Sun and Mars to Jupiter. Again, this could be read as her plan to leave her home to go to work. But it could also be showing the fated end to Jupiter's life. Jupiter falls in Capricorn, literally or figuratively.

Although the 4th house can point to the end of life, it could also be pointing to the end of her living at home, or the end of the matter that was just beginning. Jupiter in the 11th points to the house of adopted children. If she was kidnapped, it has an 11th house connection. She is either with someone they thought of as a friend, is being adopted, or otherwise involved in some kind of group activity. The 11th also could be an airport.

Moon last square Saturn, ruling the 5th and the 11th of the 1st house open enemy of the 7th could be pointing to someone who isn't able to have children and perhaps doesn't have the means to adopt through legal channels. Here we have the possibility that Mercury rules Caylee's natural father or someone who kidnaps for illegal adoption, for themselves or as a service to others. Mercury is so much stronger here than Jupiter, even more so than Neptune in mutual reception with Uranus. Mercury traditionally rules commerce and thieves. Looking at the 1st representing George, who was the last one to see them that day, Virgo also fits his job as a security guard, that job being sort of like a military, 6th house position. He provides a service. Mercury being in Gemini, travel, and Aquarius ruling his 6th also fits him working at a car dealer. Uranus governs combustion engines. He works the graveyard shift which fits the mutual reception between Uranus and Neptune, the latter ruling sleep or dream time for most.

Mercury's Sabien is two people, living far apart in telepathic communication. I think we can take this literally with Mercury in the 9th. In looking at Lily's assignment for Mercury in Gemini countries or towns where the other potential 1st house person may be from, I think it is still in North America, so possibly Mexico, Puerto Rico or other US territory. New York is also listed for Gemini. I think I recall reading ZFG is from there, maybe Tony also. I find it interesting that the MC is almost exact for the position Lily gives to London. He says all of Gemini but especially 17Gemini54, only 22 minutes inside the 10th house of success and destiny. This could be the house of where she/they end up or there may be some connection. I haven't been able to test Lily's country and town significators yet. Mercury seems to be a foreigner, in another country or some place far away but returning, Rx. This fits something Casey said about ZG being gone to her sister's wedding somewhere. The 9th is other countries or just farther away, another state. I've wondered if anyone checked to see if this ZG or any other had a sister that was recently married.

On July 30, 2008 Corporal Melich interviewed Casey's childhood friend, Ryan Pasley at 6:22pm. On page 7 of that discovery transcript he tells the officer that Casey had told him about Zenaida the morning she was arrested but he'd never heard that name before and thought it strange. She told him she was from New York and either N or S Carolina. He said she had mentioned a Caucasian name to him, like Jenny or Krista or Kristin, maybe Christina as a babysitter in the past but never this name. Still, New York fits this chart so this might be a clue that she was leaving with him. Casey couldn't have gotten that information from myspace or the guest card.

Casey and Caylee's movements once they left the Anthony home:
Moon is out of bounds so I need not look for declination contacts.
Venus is in mutual reception with Saturn through triplicity. I read this as the child of the ascendant person, and their grandchild openly receive each other, that they have affection for one another. It can also be read that the child comes from another country since Saturn rules the 5th and Venus rules the 9th. Another possibility is that the 7th house person, in this case Casey, plans (11th) to pay the money back (2nd) she took from her family or tells (her 3rd house) George that. Also ruling the 2nd, money changed hands at some point. Saturn in the 12th, it was a secret deal or connected with Casey's “work”. Here is a hint that she may have had some work connected to being an escort or using her good looks. Mars at a critical degree in Leo in her 6 and ruling her skills/resources support this too. Opposing Neptune in her 12th, secretive and possibly drugs involved. Jupiter in Capricorn is pretty down to earth though.

Now, a nanny would be considered either the 6th house employee or perhaps being in a 10th house position to the child, having authority over them. But it might also be correct to read them as an adoptive sort of parent which would put them in the 4th house position, opposite of the 10th, just as adopted children are opposite the 5th. If we use her 6th, then the nanny, here represented by Saturn by being in her 6th, is in mutual reception with a co-significator or the surrogate parent, Venus being in the 4th of the 7th. I think there was a nanny or at least someone posing as one. Sun rules the servant of the 7th and is in the same house, turned 4th, supporting this. Venus, the surrogate parent, only has dignity in through this mutual reception, during the daytime so fits being a nanny. She falls in Virgo otherwise. They are both peregrine and Saturn only has dignity in Gemini, with children by day. If the two trade signs as they can through the MR, then Moon has just had a conversation with her, Saturn being opposite rather than square, and in the 3/9 axis. The time, according to the normal timing would be a longer time frame but I will look at nearly half an hour, day and week. The preceding two calls were from the towers nearest her home. The calls late on the 15th and into the 16th were all made in the area close to home. 407-242-7686 I believe is the number to access voice mail.

She had an incoming call from her dad:
6/16/2008 15:04:06 x 407-403-3564 George 26 28.5028444 -81.2863333 Goldenrod Road, FL 551
This was likely right after he clocked in for work if he works 3-11 shift. This is 2 hours or 1 degree of actual movement of the Moon. Moon would be sextile the vertex in his house of children then. Perhaps he was calling to smooth things over. But there was something quite fated about that call. Looking at Caylee as the 5th house child of Casey, or the 11th house person, she is represented by Moon.

Black Moon Lilith, the Lunar apogee
The only contact I see here quite soon, without looking at minor asteroids, is Moon conjunct true Black Moon Lilith. This is quite significant though, since Lilith in mythology was responsible for protecting infants during their early life and judged as responsible for taking their life also, when they died. Caylee's BML is at 24Leo, mean at 11Leo, a very wide gap showing Caylee likely demands a lot of attention in order to feel equally special as others. Since the Lunar apogee, BML, shows the footprints of when Moon was the furthest away from earth, we can look at this as when mother is furthest away from her child. What it seems to be, (mean BML) is much less than what is true. Casey's true BML is at about 2Gem11 with mean BML at 2Gem15, only minutes apart. What you see is what you get with Casey. She likely voices any repressed anger regarding inequality.

Unfortunately, Moon representing Caylee, puts her in detrimental contact with both the natural and derived houses of death. After Moon crosses Lilith she opposes Mercury, Sun, Venus ruling the turned house of death, trines Mars, ruling the natural house of death then finally conjoins Pluto, the lord of the underworld. Now, it is possible these contacts represent another 8th house area like a pedophile or simply abduction for sale but I am concerned she could be dead. If so, I think she is to the NW. When Moon completes her business she is in the house of the grave but near home. She's not far, I don't think. Sag is on high ground, not water. If not dead she is in an upper floor, on a hill, near stairs, near a heat source, horses. It could be near or in a park since Moon is in the 5th of the 11th. I'll have to do some more work to take a stab at distance.

In order for me to say I think Casey killed her daughter, I'd need to see a hard aspect between their significators and connection to the house or sign of death. Using Jupiter and Moon, there is only a sextile, not cause for death. Using the interaction between Mercury and Jupiter, there is no contact. The same with Mercury and Neptune. Mercury is backing off. Moon does oppose Mercury but that is not contact between a mother and child in this chart. Maybe a surrogate child but not a blood relative. I'm not sold yet on Casey's guilt.

I hope this isn't so wordy you don't want me to post again. cguru:

I just saw one way Casey could be responsible. If we use Saturn for George's daughter, (most everyone has her labeled as Satan anyway) and Venus for his grandaughter, we can see the past square of Moon, mother, with Saturn, herself as a responsible cargiver, not working well, condemning herself, as the child of George's wife, her mother. Moon rules the 5th from George's spouce in the 7th. This puts her mother's child in the grave, Saturn being in the 8th from the 5th. Could it be in her mind, she killed sweet little Caylee, as symbolic of herself, being killed by her mother? A psychological suicide carried out through her own child. Oh, the thought of it makes me so sad.

AquarianEssence said:

Yes, each axis works together, when in balance and integrated. The 11th is other people's children, adopted or surrogate children too so would be involved with child care providers, besides showing up through the work axis. I also see the 11th house showing up strongly with forums like this one, along with internet or other technology. The forensic evidence might fall here too since it is a science. Astrology is also said to come from the 11th.

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Thanks for more clarification. I never thought to check the natal charts for websites and forums, except for my private astrology groups I started a few years ago.

When was Websleuths officially begun? Interesting note, Connie. Thanks. You're a great asset. :blowkiss:

AquarianEssence said:

Tuba, excuse me for interjecting, but I believe that the ascendant is always the prosecution and plaintiff, the descendant is the defendant, just as Mars is the aggressor and Venus the one that sometimes needs to defend herself in order to balance the scales of justice or make war as a last resort. When I studied a series of legal charts, even when the defendant filed a motion or appealed to the higher court, she still was the descendant rather than ascendant because in this case she was named the defendant. Correct me if you have knowledge otherwise though. I'm an eternal student.

Connie

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Connie, one thing we have learned here and I've previously learned in astrology groups is not every astrologer comes to their conclusions the same way others do. We have found we can do things very differently and somehow manage to end up with similar answers. It's like taking different roads and all of us meeting at the same intersection. Quite interesting. Similar to astrologers using different house systems (Placidus, Koch, Regiomontanus, etc.). I'm interested to watch your way of doing things, too. Watching how others work is a great learning tool.

Glad you're here.

AquarianEssence said:

In order for me to say I think Casey killed her daughter, I'd need to see a hard aspect between their significators and connection to the house or sign of death. Using Jupiter and Moon, there is only a sextile, not cause for death. Using the interaction between Mercury and Jupiter, there is no contact. The same with Mercury and Neptune. Mercury is backing off. Moon does oppose Mercury but that is not contact between a mother and child in this chart. Maybe a surrogate child but not a blood relative. I'm not sold yet on Casey's guilt.

I hope this isn't so wordy you don't want me to post again. cguru:

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It is a bit wordy and I haven't read through all of it yet, but I did skip down to the final paragraph to see your "outcome" or "overall opinion". My questions are about the time and date. You chose the last time George claims he saw Caylee. What if he's not being honest? What if the final time both the grandparents saw Caylee was the evening before, or even earlier that than? Wouldn't that possibly change everything? Have you considered any times for the day before? Or any time earlier than that? I ask this because I have my doubts, and especially the way CA corrected GA when he was saying what he was doing when he said he saw Caylee (Cindy wasn't even home at the alleged time).

Your idea about looking at the cell phone tower instead of the Anthony house for the directional work is interesting. I've been asking if we could consider another location instead of the A house, just because I was looking for an easier way to get those location directionals.

Now I have to go back and read your post more thoroughly. Thanks a bunch.