Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

mkay882 said:

I saw this question asked on one of the forums I read.
Never saw an answer.
I'll ask here.....

Can anyone recall if GA said he saw Caylee walk out the house on June 16?
Or was Casey carrying her?

TIA

LP seems to think she died in the early hours....

Click to expand...

In one interview early on IIRC GA said Caylee gave him a hug and a kiss before they walked out the door. I would assume this would mean she walking on her own accord, but I know what you are thinking and have pondered the same.

One more time KC proving how omnipotent she is by carrying an unconscious or already deceased child out right under her fathers nose. Talk about the ultimate F*&$ you!

Great job! I do think the computer usage shows KC was home on those days/times. I also think the flurry of calls coincides with the death. I dont think it was a drowning and that the chloroform was the natural chemicals though. Dont forget KC researched the how to make chloform to the T and per her own admission it was "if there was a death it was an unwitting overdose of a sedative" that to me says it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My wonder lies in how after the defense drops that bombshell/admission she doesnt get convicted???? Its as if they never let that cat out of the bag! How does JB say now that she is 100% not guilty? Isnt anyone going to bring this up????

mkay882 said:

I saw this question asked on one of the forums I read.
Never saw an answer.
I'll ask here.....

Can anyone recall if GA said he saw Caylee walk out the house on June 16?
Or was Casey carrying her?

TIA

LP seems to think she died in the early hours....

Click to expand...

IIRC they both left with their backpacks on.

So many threads on here about this case its hard to follow this case.Wish I would have gotten in here earlier during the first weeks of this case.

I consider myself a good read on body language and facial expressions.I have a take on this.


The more and more I watch the body language of Casee(sP) the more I feel she is protecting someone as much as she is guilty of killing her child.

I suspect she went to one of the family members,,either the brother or the father and told them she chloroformed the child so she could go out and party and it killed her.Then one of these two helped her dispose of the body.I do not believe that she could have done this alone.Its not like she has experience in burying bodies much less one of her own.

I am leaning towards the father.I saw the brother on Nancy Grace and his body language and facial expressions suggests that he is sincerely concerned for the child and is honestly looking for the child.

The father on the other hand seems to be detached from this.His interviews early on that have aired appears to me as someone that has rehearsed in his mind how he would answer questions to LE.Something really hit me when he talks about getting the lot attendant to check the trunk of the car with him.It smells fishy. Like he sat around for a couple of days planning a alibi.

GA fron NG transcripts - August 15
GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER:
"The gas can situation was someone had broken in to my shed, stolen my two gas cans.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Was it your daughter then that you found had taken them?
G. ANTHONY: All I can say is it was in front of her car. That`s all I can tell you. "

1)she didn't let me near her car trunk
2)I saw into the trunk and there was clothes
3)it was in the front of the car
Why 3 very different versions?

Caylee was admittedly in the pool on June 15th with Cindy, Cindy and KC had a fight on June 15th and were probably not paying attention to Caylee. Caylee may have died on June 15th from drowning or maybe not. But I do believe her body was place in the trunk of KC's car on the 15th sometime in the early evening maybe around 5:00pm and remained the 2.6 days until the afternoon/evening of June 17th when KC discarded her body in the area just off Suburban Dr.
KC was seen jogging in this area on the 17th by Chris S. She later went to see Chris S to feel him out and see if he had seen anything he shouldn't have.
That's my new theory and I reserve the right to change it at any given time.
Seriously though, I'm anxious to see over the coming weeks just how our theories here at WS weight in.

I don't post often, but I've thought and thought about how/why/when and all that, and I've finally come up with a theory. I haven't read through all of the theories (too many!) so forgive me if any of this has already been posted!

Perhaps after the fight with CA, Caylee kept on crying for CA. KC told Caylee something to the effect of, If you don't shut up I'm going to tape your mouth shut! But covering somebody's mouth with tape or anything else would not shut them up. It would prevent them from forming words, but they could still make plenty of loud noises. KC tapes Caylee's mouth shut as a punishment or whatever, but she's still crying and KC just can't take it anymore and grabs a pillow and holds it over Caylee's face, not neccesarily intending to kill her, just to shut her up.

OR I wonder if duct tape alone over Caylee's mouth could kill her? Same reason above for the tape being there, but if she's crying so hard and she can't breath through her mouth and her nose is so stuffed up from crying, and maybe she even vomited from crying so hard and choked on it?

Either way, it wouldn't have really been planned out at all, and not knowing what to do, KC just put the body in the trunk and left it there- out of sight, out of mind- until the smell got too bad and then she dumped it, and came up with her story.

I do think KC was using cloroform to sedate Caylee while she partied and claimed Caylee was with the made-up Zanny nanny, I just don't think that is related to how Caylee died necessarily.

Ordinarily I don't like to speculate without having cold hard facts but like everyone else here I can't help myself when it comes to wondering just exactly what happened. So here are my two cents regarding the day of the 16th.

Casey returned to the house with Caylee after her father left for work (what she probably did every day). She was either tired from not sleeping the night before and wanted to nap or quite simply - not be bothered with Caylee wanting attention. She was furious with CA for their fight and sadly - probably Caylee for getting in the way of her life. I think she tried to chloroform her & when that didn't work she taped her mouth shut. Regardless - I think KC was in a rage and either impulsively or methodically killed her... either way tragic and ending in the same result.

Because KC was entirely responsible for her death she had to conceal what she had done and called her parents repeatedly to make sure they weren't on their way home. I don't think she would have done this if it was an accident. She would have garnered more sympathy and attention from the tragedy which seems to be her usual MO. I don't understand why she didn't just leave town when she had a chance. Maybe she wanted to hang out with TL as long as he'd allow and then she'd take off when he had had enough of her?

Regarding the discovery of Caylee's remains. A few things are concerning me... a skull does not detach from a body easily... it has been reported that the remains were in a sealed bag.... more bones were discovered yesterday.... I hope she didn't dismember her to possibly distribute her in several areas delaying identification and providing her with more time to flee town if/when she was found. "They haven't even found her clothes".... maybe her remains & clothes were in separate bags...?

It seems pretty clear that she was forced to leave her where she did rather quickly. I think she used something from the A's house to weigh down the bag, probably one of the pavers as many think (pried up with the shovel on the 18th). I think she probably had Caylee in the trunk from the afternoon of the 16th until the 18th (enough time for some fluids to get into the carpet). I think the dogs hit on the area in the back from her taking her out and wrapping her body up in the backyard.

This horrible act of selfish violence is just devastating to everyone that has been affected by it.... my 11 year old son knows I've been watching this case from the beginning and he hasn't voiced much about it to me. The other night he said, "Why would she kill her? Look at her face... she is so cute. Why didn't she just leave her with her parents? It makes my heart feel good to know that you are my mom and would never leave me." I love that kid... he is awesome.

momtective said:

Caylee was admittedly in the pool on June 15th with Cindy, Cindy and KC had a fight on June 15th and were probably not paying attention to Caylee. Caylee may have died on June 15th from drowning or maybe not. But I do believe her body was place in the trunk of KC's car on the 15th sometime in the early evening maybe around 5:00pm and remained the 2.6 days until the afternoon/evening of June 17th when KC discarded her body in the area just off Suburban Dr.
KC was seen jogging in this area on the 17th by Chris S. She later went to see Chris S to feel him out and see if he had seen anything he shouldn't have.
That's my new theory and I reserve the right to change it at any given time.
Seriously though, I'm anxious to see over the coming weeks just how our theories here at WS weight in.

Click to expand...

It was the 14th of July that Chris S saw Casey jogging (per his text message to her).

Let's assume that the following are all facts (2, 3, 4 are currently rumors):

1. There was an abnormally high reading of chloroform in the car trunk. I have not seen any reports that indicate how abnormal, just that it was.
2. Duct tape was wrapped around the head, not just across the mouth.
3. Caylee was wrapped in either a sheet or towel, or possibly a pillow case.
4. Caylee had no clothes on. KC allegedly even made a comment to one of Padilla's bounty hunters that "they haven't even found her clothes" when commenting on the searches.
5. KC appears to be a narcissist, is lazy, clingy, and not particularly self-sufficient (needs help when she runs out of gas).

Thinking out loud...

In light of #5, do I really believe KC would have made chloroform?
Searches notwithstanding - No. While it may not be rocket science, it does take time and energy. It is a whole lot easier to steal money from mom to buy Benadril.

Whether she used chloroform or some other sedative, does it make even KC-sense to wrap the head in duct tape to keep her quiet in case she wakes up?
Well...if this was the very first time she pulled such a stunt, maybe she would have thought it to be the right thing to do. I do not believe this could have been done more than once. Try wrapping your head in duct tape and then removing it. It is an unforgettable experience, particularly for a child. On top of that, this report suggests a child will die rather quickly in the trunk of a car due to hypothermia or asphyxiation. High probability this could have happened but once, so I think it unlikely to have happened at all.

Would KC have murdered Caylee by using chloroform to put her to sleep and then wrapping her head in duct tape to smother her?
Seems like a lot of complicated work for someone like KC. Assuming she had chloroform, why duct tape around the head and not just over nose and mouth? Why duct tape at all, and not a pillow over the face? Caylee is asleep, after all, and there will be no struggles. On top of that, KC may not care, but where is the evidence that she is physically cruel? I think this is a very important thing to consider in understanding what happened.

I think the most likely scenario that bridges the above is as follows:

• Caylee drowned accidentally in the swimming pool while KC was on the computer / phone. The chlorinated water in her lungs reacted with organic decompositional fluid to form higher-than-normal levels of chloroform while in the trunk.
• Caylee was naked or in a swimsuit she put on herself when she climbed into the pool. If true, I do not believe there would be a diaper or pull-up on the remains either.
• KC wrapped Caylee in a towel or available sheet - probably the latter since bedding was clearly siezed.
• Duct tape was added on 19th by KC, not to stage a kidnapping, but to stop decomp fluids from leaking into the trunk from the mouth.

MOO, and I am well aware of a personal need to keep convincing myself that is was an accident and KC is guilty of negligence, manslaughter, and descration of a corpse. Easier to sleep that way, and it is getting close to bed time.

How did Casey get chloroform?

the theories that casey put duct tape around the mouth of caylee's corpse to prevent fluids from leaking from the mouth makes no sense . the mouth is not the only orifice of the human body. there are many more orifices that would leak fluids and would need to be duct taped so lets let that theory be gone with the wind already. if a lazy incompetent mother is going to sedate her daughter so she can go party, and if shes as lazy and constantly out of funds as casey anthony was, dont you think that party girl casey, who apparently had frequent access to booze and pot and other drugs, dont you think she would just put booze in caylees cup, or blow pot smoke in her face, or give her a xanax or percocet or any pill, geez, even friggin benedryl, or cough syrup, doesnt have to be crushed up to taste, can be stuffed into a candy or banana or peanut butter, whatever. do you really think someone with no money, no ambitions, but does have access to lots of booze and drugs needs to research chloroform and then buy the supplies and then make it to use that just to sedate her daughter? i dont dispute that she sedated her to go party. i do, however highly doubt that the chloroform was used to do that. the chloroform was for something much more sinister. it has been clear to me since day one she murdered this kid. and its been clear to me since the fist newsbreak of chloroform that she used it to kill the kid. purposely. intentionally. she had too much easy access to so many other things that could have been used to sedate caylee. you dont research chloroform, inhalation, death, neck breaking and missing kid scenarios by coincidence 4 months before you then just so happen to have incredibly strong human decomposition smell and fluids in your trunk, and then just so happen to have insane amounts of chloroform fumes in your trunk, and then you just so happen to have hair with a death band on it that can only come from you, your mom or your child and your child, and just so happen to have a dead child. who would tape up a corpse after its leaking and decomposing? are you kidding me? shes using the shovel to pick it up, but shes going to use her hands to tape it up? come on. duct tape was wrapped so tightly around the head of that baby that it remained in place when all other tissue dropped away. there was still tissue under the tape. you dont use duct tape with the intention of removing it later. you dont use duct tape around a child's head and hair with the intention of later removing it. she murdered her baby. and the last thing caylee saw were caseys eyes as she murdered her, plain and simple. i hope she fries.

No idea where to put this but have you all seen this
http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=6453888

Wow some interesting stuff and then look at part 2

Ames said:

Maybe Zanny is short for Xanax afterall, as LP suggests. So when KC told people that her daughter was with Zanny, it wasn't too far from the truth. CA even said that she believed that Zanny meant..anybody that was babysitting Caylee. Kinda like Nanny...but, with a Z. IOW...the Xanax (Zanny) could have been her "babysitter".

Click to expand...

I don't know, I guess about anything's possible. But, I just can't ascribe Casey taking LE to an apartment complex where someone by that exact uncommon name had recently inquired, Then, to the exact apartment the woman was shown,...once. The odds of that a far beyond astronomical and the sensibilities of logic.

Casey's knowledge of these facts alone imply a sinister and callous forethought. Not to mention just how, and when, she acquired the information.

That's a story's truth still to be revealed.

JWG said:

Let's assume that the following are all facts (2, 3, 4 are currently rumors):

1. There was an abnormally high reading of chloroform in the car trunk. I have not seen any reports that indicate how abnormal, just that it was.
2. Duct tape was wrapped around the head, not just across the mouth.
3. Caylee was wrapped in either a sheet or towel, or possibly a pillow case.
4. Caylee had no clothes on. KC allegedly even made a comment to one of Padilla's bounty hunters that "they haven't even found her clothes" when commenting on the searches.
5. KC appears to be a narcissist, is lazy, clingy, and not particularly self-sufficient (needs help when she runs out of gas).

Thinking out loud...

In light of #5, do I really believe KC would have made chloroform?
Searches notwithstanding - No. While it may not be rocket science, it does take time and energy. It is a whole lot easier to steal money from mom to buy Benadril.

Whether she used chloroform or some other sedative, does it make even KC-sense to wrap the head in duct tape to keep her quiet in case she wakes up?
Well...if this was the very first time she pulled such a stunt, maybe she would have thought it to be the right thing to do. I do not believe this could have been done more than once. Try wrapping your head in duct tape and then removing it. It is an unforgettable experience, particularly for a child. On top of that, this report suggests a child will die rather quickly in the trunk of a car due to hypothermia or asphyxiation. High probability this could have happened but once, so I think it unlikely to have happened at all.

Would KC have murdered Caylee by using chloroform to put her to sleep and then wrapping her head in duct tape to smother her?
Seems like a lot of complicated work for someone like KC. Assuming she had chloroform, why duct tape around the head and not just over nose and mouth? Why duct tape at all, and not a pillow over the face? Caylee is asleep, after all, and there will be no struggles. On top of that, KC may not care, but where is the evidence that she is physically cruel? I think this is a very important thing to consider in understanding what happened.

I think the most likely scenario that bridges the above is as follows:

• Caylee drowned accidentally in the swimming pool while KC was on the computer / phone. The chlorinated water in her lungs reacted with organic decompositional fluid to form higher-than-normal levels of chloroform while in the trunk.
• Caylee was naked or in a swimsuit she put on herself when she climbed into the pool. If true, I do not believe there would be a diaper or pull-up on the remains either.
• KC wrapped Caylee in a towel or available sheet - probably the latter since bedding was clearly siezed.
• Duct tape was added on 19th by KC, not to stage a kidnapping, but to stop decomp fluids from leaking into the trunk from the mouth.

MOO, and I am well aware of a personal need to keep convincing myself that is was an accident and KC is guilty of negligence, manslaughter, and descration of a corpse. Easier to sleep that way, and it is getting close to bed time.

Click to expand...

Very well formulated hypothesis. But why would she leave a dead body in her trunk? Why wouldn't she call police? Technically, if your kid dies while you're not paying attention, it isn't manslaughter or felony murder. Why did she hide it for a month?

I also doubt KC made chloroform. Maybe someone gave it to her; but I doubt she made it. Same with Xanax - that stuff is expensive.

dolly said:

the theories that casey put duct tape around the mouth of caylee's corpse to prevent fluids from leaking from the mouth is, pardon my bluntness, retarded. the mouth is not the only orifice of the human body. there are many more orifices that would leak fluids and would need to be duct taped so lets let that theory be gone with the wind already.

Click to expand...

When that body was placed in the bag and taped KC had not yet even decided where or even if to discard it. KC was focused on fixing an immediate problem which was a body leaking a mess in the trunk - without removing the body.

Remember that the mouth is a large orifice, and probably one that did not evacuate upon death. It is the most likely one to be leaking fluids soon after death. I maintain that if Casey saw something leaking from her mouth and leaving a basketball-sized stain on the trunk interior that a "KC response" would be to tape it up, then double-bag the body and tape that up.

Egoslayer said:

Very well formulated hypothesis. But why would she leave a dead body in her trunk? Why wouldn't she call police? Technically, if your kid dies while you're not paying attention, it isn't manslaughter or felony murder. Why did she hide it for a month?

I also doubt KC made chloroform. Maybe someone gave it to her; but I doubt she made it. Same with Xanax - that stuff is expensive.

Click to expand...

The why is probably due to KC not wanting to validate Cindy's assertion to KC that KC is a bad mother. First and foremost I think KC was hiding the death from Cindy. Making LE aware of the fact would have made Cindy aware.

Driving around with a dead body in the trunk for over a week and acting like everything is hunky-dory indicates to me that there was no plan, that it was an accident, and KC had no clue what to do about it.

I don't see even Casey trying to hide the accidental death of her child. The emotional trauma alone would have driven her to seek help. Now, trying to hide a murder? It's the only way everything that's followed makes any kind of sense, at all. IMO

A very stupid, callously self-centered, and marginally demented girl, did a very stupid, callously self-centered, and marginally demented thing. All of her stories have proven to be very stupid, callously self-centered, and marginally demented, as well.

To ascribe to her much more depth than this is to be guilty of the same.

*Or, maybe it's just me and I'm too cynical.

Sorry If this has already been posted. But if caylee's mouth was duct taped shut she would have had to bind her hands a well, If she was alive when the tape was put on she would have taken it off. If she were tring to make it look like a kidnapping she would have to still bind her hands to make it appear real. Sorry sounds so awful! I wonder if Tape was found attched to any other bones?