Procedure and legal questions

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Normally, people go to law school so that they can practice law. Some just do it to know the law better in relation to their other work, though it's a hard three years just for that. I've heard of people with medical and legal degrees who serve as consultants on med/legal issues, but practice neither profession. The usual thing to do would be to sign up and take the bar exam as soon as possible, so that you could start practicing and be employed. You can't engage in the unauthorized practice of law (appear in court, sign pleadings, etc.) Some state's (at least this used to be true) only give a bar exam once a year, or twice, and many have rules about how often and how soon you can re-take the exam if you fail. So the process of taking, failing, re-taking could cause a lapse of time, though I don't know if that happened here. I guess someone could have other, specific reasons for not taking the bar exam right after law school, like going into another line of work, military service, etc.

I guess if you were in process of trying to pass the bar you could do legal related jobs that didn't require you to be a lawyer. There are also some internship sort of programs where people work under the supervision of lawyers before they are admitted to the bar.

I want to add that since JBaez doesn't possess any other degrees in any other specialties that we're aware of, I think it's safe to say that he simply couldn't pass the bar, especially since he was interning after law school and up to passing the bar. The "results" he claims to have achieved in his criminal work to date does include work done while an intern and, therefore, I'd guess he took the bar quite a few times before finally passing.

As far as the question "[c]an a person do any legal work without passing the BAR," I'd expand by saying that although there may be a few, limited instances where one could "do legal related jobs that didn't require you to be a lawyer," (such as research, drafting draft pleadings for an attorney to review/edit/etc., attending meetings and depositions with an attorney, summarizing medical or criminal records for an attorney, drafting correspondence for an attorney's signature, etc.,) my home state, for one, has VERY STRICT rules regarding people "attempting to practice law."

"Attempting to practice law" has been defined in my home state to include a whole host of things such as interviewing witnesses without a licensed attorney's supervision/presence, drafting pleadings without a licensed attorney's supervision/review, taking witness statements without a licensed attorney's supervision/presence, attending physicians' meetings with the client without a licensed attorney's supervision/presence, etc.

The point is that is if you aren't licensed, you'd better not be doing anything without a licensed attorney present and/or that isn't ultimately reviewed by someone who is licensed, or else you can be permanently barred from admission to the state's bar.
 
I've always had a bit of a question about the "results" claim made by JB about his prior cases. I know these days there are, in some states, state bar sanctioned programs that allow "interns" not licensed to practice law to participate in practicing law. Usually these programs involve serving the under-served somehow: indigent criminal representation, post-conviction matters, etc. Is there some program in Florida that would actually allow a non-licensed person to try cases, appear in court, etc. for a period of years? I don't intend to retain JB, so I haven't explored the issue, but was just curious about how behind the times I am. Most of his experience appears to have occurred before he was admitted to the bar, right?
 
Legal question:

Are statements and/or information provided as part of KC's defamation of ZG case all subject to being used in her criminal case?

For example, if a statement is issued in the defamation case that **advertiser censored* ZG kidnapped Caylee but not *this* ZG, then in the criminal case could a defense be used that, for example, one of the friends kidnapped Caylee with no mention of ZG? Or could the criminal case attempt to use insanity as a defense stating that KC was psychotic and believed because of her illness that a ZG existed and had kidnapped Caylee?

I'm just wondering how much latitude there is for differences between the cases, or if the two cases must align, and all statements/info in the defamation case are subject to being brought up by the SA in the criminal case.

Thanks in advance!
 
SNIPPED: "... 1. If Baez is obligated to keep confidential "privileged" communication information about physical evidence like the location of Caylee's body, what about P.I. Casey?
The general rule in FL is that if a private investigator hired by an attorney in anticipation of trial finds any information or thing relevant to the case while so employed by said attorney, all information and/or things, including all facts as learned/uncovered by that private investigator, whether said facts/information be capable of being transmitted/shared verbally or tangibly, are also protected by the attorney work product privilege.

Exceptions to this rule are:
(1)
when a party designates its own PI as a witness and/or (2) intends to rely upon the PI's surveillance tapes/other tangible work for any purpose, be it impeachment, corroboration, etc., and one can tell if this is the case if the attorney makes the mistake as listing said items as potential evidence and/or attempting to introduce it at a hearing or trial. BOTH of the foregoing mistakes are gnenerally curable, as the below case explains-but you have to know what you're doing when trying to get out of the hole you've dug (and an attorney who dug the hole in the first place, er, might not know how to do so.)
or (3) when the opposing party/side can show exceptional circumstances that require that the information be divulged, which is typically interpreted to mean that the other side/party could not within any reasonable means, acquire the same information/facts had it hired its own PI, which won't apply here, as there was nothing preventing the SA from sending a PI/deputy out to the places that the PI's hired by JBaez were going/looking/filming/etc.
NOTE: all of this presupposes that the PI's in question are licensed PI's in good standing, etc, which has been discussed some here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82091&highlight=witness

For those with Westlaw access, see this recent FL case, Huet v. Tromp, 912 So.2d 336, Fla.App. 5 Dist.,2005, here:
http://web2.westlaw.com/result/defa...me/53/default.wl&ifm=NotSet&cfid=1&rs=WLW9.03
SNIPPED:
"Information relating to a matter which is the subject of litigation, which is received by a party's attorneys from investigators and adjusters in anticipation of or in connection with litigation, is protected by the work product privilege.... An investigator employed by a party may not be required to produce the work-product of his or her investigations, except in unusual circumstances constituting compelling necessity for the discovery in order to reach the merits of the cause. ...However, a party may waive the work product privilege with respect to matters covered by an investigator's anticipated testimony when a party elects to present the investigator as a witness. ... In American Motors Corp. v. Ellis ... the Florida Supreme Court held that the contents of surveillance films and materials are subject to discovery in every instance where they are intended to be presented at trial, either for substantive, corroborative or impeachment purposes. The court reasoned that if materials are to aid counsel in trying a case, they are work product, but any work product privilege that existed ceases once the materials or testimony are intended for trial use. ...

[Turning to the Huets' matter,] The first order denying the Huets' motion for a protective order [regarding the facts and information known by their PI's]... was correctly decided because the Huets had included these investigators on their witness lists, and indicated they intended to call them to present testimony and evidence at trial. ...The controlling issue here, however, is the efficacy of the Huets' subsequent attempt to solve their problem by filing an amended witness list which removed any reference to the three investigators and then filing a motion for rehearing, arguing a change of circumstances.

[Therefore, the issue before the trial court was]...Can the witnesses be deposed as to “fact” work product? ... Clearly any documents, reports or video tapes prepared by the investigators are now protected by the work product privilege. Furthermore, the Tromps cannot obtain indirectly what they cannot obtain directly by merely labeling the contents of the investigators' reports as “observations.” The investigators' “observations” are the equivalent of any documents or *340 reports they may have generated in the course of their investigations and are discoverable only under the conditions in rule 1...

It is clear that communications, reports, memoranda, etc., prepared in anticipation of litigation and passing between a client and his attorney, and/or their employed investigators, are work product. An investigator cannot properly be required, in a discovery deposition, to reveal the contents of such communication or reports relating to the circumstances of the incident or his investigation thereof, absent proof of the adverse party's need and inability to obtain the materials without undue hardship [THIS IS WHERE WE GET INTO THE OTHER EXCEPTION I'D MENTIONED, #3]. Likewise, the investigators' “observations” are the equivalent of the contents of any video tapes they may have prepared in the course of their investigation. In Dodson, the Florida Supreme Court held that if surveillance movies or photographs will not be used as evidence, the contents are discoverable only upon a showing of exceptional circumstances:
n limited instances, the contents of surveillance materials that are not intended to be submitted as evidence are subject to discovery if they are unique and otherwise unavailable, and materially relevant to the cause's issues. ..."
---------------------------------------------------
Frankly, the SA would have to show that it was not possible for it to have hired a PI to video or tape these same areas to show exceptional circumstances, which I doubt it can do.
"If P.I. Casey found Caylee and did not remove or tamper with anything was he legally obligated to report his find?
No. He couldn't while employed by JBaez, and there's no law that I could find in FL that obligates a private citizen or a PI to report anything they see and don't touch or tamper with.
If P.I. Casey didn't find Caylee because of a random tip from a psychic but got the location from one of the Anthony's would that change his obligation?
No. The rule is that if, while the PI is employed by JBaez, he is compiling information for JBaez, then it doesn't matter from whence the information comes. He still ultimately answers to JBaez, has to receive permission from JBaez to go wherever he goes, and is being paid by JBaez on behalf of Casey in pursuit of Casey's defense. The point is that had JBaez not hired him to work for him, PI Casey wouldn't have been receiving any information from anyone.
HOWEVER, if PI was, at some other time, retained to work for anyone who is NOT an attorney for Casey, then there is no attorney work product privilege that covers ANY of the information/things said PI learns/finds/generates during said time while so employed by a non-attorney. The work product privilege applies ONLY to PI's retained by attorneys while they are so employed. Things could get muddy if, following the end of the work for an attorney, the PI goes to work for a non-attorney and uses/realies upon information he obtained while working for the attorney to then work for the non-attorney...really muddy. :eek:
2. Is there any way that Lee could officially be made an agent for Baez like a secretary or assistant?
I think Cindy and George knew before P.I. Casey was sent to Suburban to look for Caylee that Caylee was dead. Baez's objection to P.I. Casey being subpoenaed was that he had information that was privileged work product. P.I. Casey was allowed to go off the record when talking about the person who told him not to call 911 if he found Caylee.
John Morgan said Lee told P.I. Casey. I don't know how it is possible for information coming from Lee to be privileged.
But I also can't imagine Baez telling P.I. Casey to not call 911 if he found Caylee. ..."
The only way that Lee could be an agent of JBaez's would be if JBaez had formally hired Lee (e.g., complete with filling out tax withholding forms, paychecks, etc.,) in some capacity, which, to the best of my knowledge, he did not do. As a practical matter, this would not have been a wise thing for JBaez to do either, as it creates the obvious potential for conflicts that could disqualify him from representing Casey... ;)
While it is true that the PI cannot be made to testify about what he learned from investigating while employed by JBaez, the rule does NOT apply when he was retained by any non-attorney (see the above discussion for Q#1,) so if PI Casey was employed by the Anthony family AFTER his employment with JBaez ended, then he has to divulge what he learned and from whom, etc., and if Lee is asked these questions, Lee must testify and tell the truth.
 
If you read the current news thread it makes me feel the defense is going for a manslauter charge using "fillacide" a mother who kills their child.
 
Legal question:

Are statements and/or information provided as part of KC's defamation of ZG case all subject to being used in her criminal case?

For example, if a statement is issued in the defamation case that **advertiser censored* ZG kidnapped Caylee but not *this* ZG, then in the criminal case could a defense be used that, for example, one of the friends kidnapped Caylee with no mention of ZG? Or could the criminal case attempt to use insanity as a defense stating that KC was psychotic and believed because of her illness that a ZG existed and had kidnapped Caylee?

I'm just wondering how much latitude there is for differences between the cases, or if the two cases must align, and all statements/info in the defamation case are subject to being brought up by the SA in the criminal case.

Thanks in advance!

Yes and No

If the deposition was taken under oath and the transcript was signed and sworn accurate, by the deposed ... then under some circumstances their testimony from the deposition can be used in the criminal trial ... most likely though only to impeach testimony given at trial. In depositions, especially civil depositions you have a lot more leeway in questioning. You can ask for hearsay testimony, for example. In civil depositions, the relevance of a question or answer is rarely argued, because in the civil realm almost anything can be argued relevant.

Does that help?

I am looking for any good articles citing FL law concerning parallel proceedings. I will post if I find any.
 
I am really loving this thread! So many interesting questions and answers! Now I have a question and I hope it has not been covered elsewhere....if it has I apologize in advance.

When someone is deposed by JB is that person allowed to have their own attorney with them as they are deposed? Is anyone from LE present during the JB depositions? What or who would be present to assure that JB did not bully or try to sway someone's statement in KC's favor?

TIA
 
I am really loving this thread! So many interesting questions and answers! Now I have a question and I hope it has not been covered elsewhere....if it has I apologize in advance.

When someone is deposed by JB is that person allowed to have their own attorney with them as they are deposed? Is anyone from LE present during the JB depositions? What or who would be present to assure that JB did not bully or try to sway someone's statement in KC's favor?

TIA

Yes, a deponant is allowed to retain and have counsel of their choice present with them to protect their interests, which will generally also address your third question re: making sure that the deponant isn't bullied into testifying pro-Casey, etc. The deponant's lawyer will ensure that no such bullying occurs, as he has a duty to protect his client from same. No one from LE will be present, but the SA's office will have someone attending and participating.
 
Legal question:

Are statements and/or information provided as part of KC's defamation of ZG case all subject to being used in her criminal case?

For example, if a statement is issued in the defamation case that **advertiser censored* ZG kidnapped Caylee but not *this* ZG, then in the criminal case could a defense be used that, for example, one of the friends kidnapped Caylee with no mention of ZG? Or could the criminal case attempt to use insanity as a defense stating that KC was psychotic and believed because of her illness that a ZG existed and had kidnapped Caylee?

I'm just wondering how much latitude there is for differences between the cases, or if the two cases must align, and all statements/info in the defamation case are subject to being brought up by the SA in the criminal case.

Thanks in advance!

Yes and No

If the deposition was taken under oath and the transcript was signed and sworn accurate, by the deposed ... then under some circumstances their testimony from the deposition can be used in the criminal trial ... most likely though only to impeach testimony given at trial. In depositions, especially civil depositions you have a lot more leeway in questioning. You can ask for hearsay testimony, for example. In civil depositions, the relevance of a question or answer is rarely argued, because in the civil realm almost anything can be argued relevant.

Does that help?

I am looking for any good articles citing FL law concerning parallel proceedings. I will post if I find any.

The answer to BeanE's question is yes, they are all subject to being used.
When I use said phrase "subject to," I mean that the usual evidentiary hurdles must first be overcome.

As one_hooah_wife notes above, a deponant has the right to read and sign one's deposition transcript, but the reading and signing is for typographical errors/omissions ONLY. It is not allowable to make substantive changes. Further, many deponants, after being worn in at the start of a deposition, which covers the deponant being under oath part, agree to waive the right to read and sign. The point I'm making is that the reading and signing, if reserved by the deponant, has no bearing upon the deponant's duty to tell the truth, nor does it affect the transcript's subsequent admissibility at a trial or hearing, as that is covered by the oath that the court reporter administers to the deponant at the start of the deposition.

As far as actual use during other proceedings, the answer is yes, but one can expect opposing counsel to object to the blanket introduction of a deposition transcript into evidence for a multiplicity of reasons, including, as one_hooah_wife noted, hearsay, and also relevance, undue prejudice, etc.
 
Yes, a deponant is allowed to retain and have counsel of their choice present with them to protect their interests, which will generally also address your third question re: making sure that the deponant isn't bullied into testifying pro-Casey, etc. The deponant's lawyer will ensure that no such bullying occurs, as he has a duty to protect his client from same. No one from LE will be present, but the SA's office will have someone attending and participating.

THank you sooo much Chez......it puts my mind a little more at ease knowing that JB can't run rough shod over those he is deposing. And the fact that the SA is represented is good to hear.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:
 
I am really loving this thread! So many interesting questions and answers! Now I have a question and I hope it has not been covered elsewhere....if it has I apologize in advance.

When someone is deposed by JB is that person allowed to have their own attorney with them as they are deposed? Is anyone from LE present during the JB depositions? What or who would be present to assure that JB did not bully or try to sway someone's statement in KC's favor?

TIA

When someone is deposed by JB is that person allowed to have their own attorney with them as they are deposed? Yes always! In fact, if Baez is deposing a State's witness then, that person has the right to request a State's Attorney or assistant attorney be present ... of course, if the State cannot provide an attorney at the time of the request ... the deposition will proceed. But a witness, no matter which side, is allowed representation, either by the State or private.

Here is a reference to help out!
http://www.sao19.org/criminal_justice.htm

Is anyone from LE present during the JB depositions? What or who would be present to assure that JB did not bully or try to sway someone's statement in KC's favor?

Hmmm ... no one from LE, except as mentioned above. The State is going to really try to be present for all critical depos of their witnesses. But honestly, if the State wasn't given enough notice ... or if the deposed is not a wittness for the State ... then it is really up to them to have representation. FL is one of the only states that I know of that are allowed depos in criminal proceedings ... I don't know for sure, but I would imagine that because of this provision, the State is very aware and makes a point of being present in all depos of their witnesses. JMO
 
THank you one hooah....
BEAUTIFUL baby.....hope daddy gets home soon as little ones this age change so quickly!!
 
THank you sooo much Chez......it puts my mind a little more at ease knowing that JB can't run rough shod over those he is deposing. And the fact that the SA is represented is good to hear.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

:blowkiss:
 
THank you one hooah....
BEAUTIFUL baby.....hope daddy gets home soon as little ones this age change so quickly!!


OT ... Thanks ... I send him pictures EVERY day! Still I worry about him missing this crucial bonding time .... he was deployed when she was 5 weeks old! I try to tell her about daddy ... and when I take a picture, usually with my phone, I say "Smile for Daddy!" When he calls, I put him on speaker phone and say "that's Daddy" ... Honestly, I think she believes "daddy" is a cell phone!

LOL but not really!

It will be okay though!
 
Respectfully snipped:

But I also can't imagine Baez telling P.I. Casey to not call 911 if he found Caylee.

I'll bet you two chocolate chip cookies and a latte that Baez is the name DC gave LE when the tape was turned off. :blowkiss: Are we on?
 
Wasnt there meant to be a document dump this week?


I recall that too ... however a poster on the "You know its time for a document dump when ..." thread, cited an article from the Orlando Sentinel which stated it might be Monday!!
 
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