Four People Murdered in VA College Town #3 - Page 59

PAXIMUS · #**1451** 11-09-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gxm

Authorities believe both the hammer and the maul were used on each of the victims, according to the source close to the investigation. All four victims were bludgeoned beyond recognition, the source added.

source link:
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/ne...223004/303535/

Jesus, Sam, what the ****?

dangrsmind · #**1452** 11-09-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndresEscobar

The use of two these two different weapons on each victim doesn't bode well for Sam's argument against premeditation.

I agree.

He's going to need a miracle such as some very compelling physical evidence that someone else committed the murders.

dangrsmind · #**1453** 11-09-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAXIMUS

Jesus, Sam, what the ****?

Seems like maybe he focused on the faces...

PAXIMUS · #**1454** 11-09-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndresEscobar

The use of these two different weapons on each victim doesn't bode well for Sam's argument against premeditation.

Indeed, it goes far beyond simple death blows to mutilation. Im sickened at what those first responders saw. Sams done, I seriously doubt we will see a trial, they will likely plead this out somehow, HOWEVER, Sam may WANT a trial, he may insists on it just for ****s and giggles.

PAXIMUS · #**1455** 11-09-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangrsmind

Seems like maybe he focused on the faces...

Im thinking he totally smashed the skulls in to pretty much nothing, however, that may not be the case since we do have evidence that they used dental records to ID some of the victims so the skulls may have been somewhat together and not completely smashed.

gxm · #**1456** 11-09-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndresEscobar

Sam is not a serial killer by definition.

From Wikipedia: "A serial killer is a person who murders three or more people over a period of more than 30 days, with a "cooling off" period between each murder, and whose motivation for killing is largely based on psychological gratification."

I'm the one who (for the time being) thinks Sam is a failed serial killer, mainly because of his signature behavior (bashing heads in). IMO, it is something he had fantasized about doing for quite some time. Clearly, he did not plan the aftermath of the murders out well, but I do believe that once he began his spree he was enjoying himself. Maybe he ultimately realized that he didn't have the head for planning that would be required to continue along this career path.

From the same Wiki link:

Disorganized/asocial offenders
Disorganized asocial offenders are often of low intelligence, have a below average IQ (<90), and commit their crimes impulsively. Whereas the organized killer will specifically set out to hunt a victim, the disorganized will murder someone when the opportunity arises, rarely bothering to dispose of the body but instead just leaving it at the same place where they found the victim. They usually carry out blitz-style attacks, leaping out and attacking their victims without warning, and will typically perform whatever rituals they feel compelled to carry out (e.g., necrophilia, mutilation, cannibalism, etc.) once the victim is dead. They rarely bother to cover their tracks but may still evade capture for extended periods of time due to the anonymous nature of the crime. They are often introverted, socially inadequate with few friends, and they may have a history of mental problems. Richard Chase is an example of a disorganized serial killer.

Serial_killer

PAXIMUS · #**1457** 11-09-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gxm

I'm the one who (for the time being) thinks Sam is a failed serial killer, mainly because of his signature behavior (bashing heads in). IMO, it is something he had fantasized about doing for quite some time. Clearly, he did not plan the aftermath of the murders out well, but I do believe that once he began his spree he was enjoying himself. Maybe he ultimately realized that he didn't have the head for planning that would be required to continue along this career path.

From the same Wiki link:

Disorganized/asocial offenders
Disorganized asocial offenders are often of low intelligence, have a below average IQ (<90), and commit their crimes impulsively. Whereas the organized killer will specifically set out to hunt a victim, the disorganized will murder someone when the opportunity arises, rarely bothering to dispose of the body but instead just leaving it at the same place where they found the victim. They usually carry out blitz-style attacks, leaping out and attacking their victims without warning, and will typically perform whatever rituals they feel compelled to carry out (e.g., necrophilia, mutilation, cannibalism, etc.) once the victim is dead. They rarely bother to cover their tracks but may still evade capture for extended periods of time due to the anonymous nature of the crime. They are often introverted, socially inadequate with few friends, and they may have a history of mental problems. Richard Chase is an example of a disorganized serial killer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer

Its a good point to consider, if he did in fact start enjoying what he was doing then he certainly could be considered a serial killer in the making.

We also have the lyrics to Sams song "My dark side" which I believe DM posted a bit ago which has the words "youre not the first I have killed before and I kill them slow."

Is it possible Sam has killed before, I wonder if investigators are looking in to any cold cases in Castro Valley right now?

gxm · #**1458** 11-09-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAXIMUS

If Sam were to walk away from these murders and not be suspected at all of being the perp and went back home to cali do you think he would kill again? I am beginning to think he MIGHT but I am not sure. If we think he would because he enjoyed it so much than we could consider that he was a serial killer in the making. But generally serial killers take drastic measures to avoid detection for as long as possible which Sam obviously did not do.

At this point, yes, I think he would have killed again, and he might have even become competent at it. But, fortunately, he was caught.

AndresEscobar · #**1459** 11-09-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAXIMUS

Indeed, it goes far beyond simple death blows to mutilation. Im sickened at what those first responders saw. Sams done, I seriously doubt we will see a trial, they will likely plead this out somehow, HOWEVER, Sam may WANT a trial, he may insists on it just for ****s and giggles.

Well, you can't really put too much faith in the news reports. What i got from that was the author read the warrants and other stuff we got last week and wrote it. I almost wonder about whether both the maul and hammer were used on the pastor. We had previous reports that he was either bludgeoned with the maul or a piece of wood.

tapu · #**1460** 11-09-2009, 02:06 PM

Not sure this says enjoyment. Seems like this boy had some major mutha-****in rage going down in him. Kno'wham' sayin'?

PAXIMUS · #**1461** 11-09-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangrsmind

Seems like maybe he focused on the faces...

This is probably your area, what do we need to ID through dental records, must complete/jaw/bite be in place or can they use just a couple of teeth, I suppose they could put the jaw/teeth back together if they were all smashed in to pieces??

dangrsmind · #**1462** 11-09-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gxm

I'm the one who (for the time being) thinks Sam is a failed serial killer, mainly because of his signature behavior (bashing heads in). IMO, it is something he had fantasized about doing for quite some time. Clearly, he did not plan the aftermath of the murders out well, but I do believe that once he began his spree he was enjoying himself. Maybe he ultimately realized that he didn't have the head for planning that would be required to continue along this career path.

From the same Wiki link:

Disorganized/asocial offenders
Disorganized asocial offenders are often of low intelligence, have a below average IQ (<90), and commit their crimes impulsively. Whereas the organized killer will specifically set out to hunt a victim, the disorganized will murder someone when the opportunity arises, rarely bothering to dispose of the body but instead just leaving it at the same place where they found the victim. They usually carry out blitz-style attacks, leaping out and attacking their victims without warning, and will typically perform whatever rituals they feel compelled to carry out (e.g., necrophilia, mutilation, cannibalism, etc.) once the victim is dead. They rarely bother to cover their tracks but may still evade capture for extended periods of time due to the anonymous nature of the crime. They are often introverted, socially inadequate with few friends, and they may have a history of mental problems. Richard Chase is an example of a disorganized serial killer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer

The kids is a whiz with web image creation and web sites. It's not my style, but he was clearly pretty good at it. I don't think he has an IQ below and it wasn't an anonymous crime. However a lot of this makes sense otherwise.

See also:

A new classification of necrophilia
Get your own at Scribd or explore others:

and consider the section on "necromutilomaniacs"...

IMO.

PAXIMUS · #**1463** 11-09-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapu

Not sure this says enjoyment. Seems like this boy had some major mutha-****in rage going down in him. Kno'wham' sayin'?

Thats the question rage or enjoyment or both. Personally I think he killed whoever went first out of rage, the others had to go to keep that first murder hidden and then once they were dead he really started to experiment a little "lets see what a ball peen hammer does to an eye socket," type thing.

I think in Sam's mind it was like, well they are dead now lets see some of the gore I have been reading about all these years, lets see what happens when you take a maul to someones skull.

gxm · #**1464** 11-09-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cc22

http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-farmvi...,1321614.story

This article says the three females were found in one room. So this would mean they were found downstairs while the father would have been found upstairs.

Which is really strange because they found the father's body first. The woman were, IIRC, on the first floor which would lead one to believe that the cops would have found them first before heading upstairs.

dangrsmind · #**1465** 11-09-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAXIMUS

This is probably your area, what do we need to ID through dental records, must complete/jaw/bite be in place or can they use just a couple of teeth, I suppose they could put the jaw/teeth back together if they were all smashed in to pieces??

You don't need an entire jaw, but in general a couple of teeth wouldn't be enough to do it. It depends though, for example if the tooth has a filling. Also in this case they knew who the victims were, they just didn't know which body was which. This is a much simpler problem than trying to identify an unknown person from dental records...

PAXIMUS · #**1466** 11-09-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangrsmind

The kids is a whiz with web image creation and web sites. It's not my style, but he was clearly pretty good at it. I don't think he has an IQ below and it wasn't an anonymous crime. However a lot of this makes sense otherwise.

See also: A new classification of necrophilia and consider the section on "necromutilomaniacs"...

IMO.

As I understand it Sam did most of the graphics for almost all the CDs SKR and WIR sold including their websites, merch etc. I was thinking last night that SKR will probably have to actually pay top dollar for that stuff now with no more Sam to do it for free merch, CDs and pocket change.

gxm · #**1467** 11-09-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangrsmind

The kids is a whiz with web image creation and web sites. It's not my style, but he was clearly pretty good at it. I don't think he has an IQ below and it wasn't an anonymous crime. However a lot of this makes sense otherwise.

See also: A new classification of necrophilia and consider the section on "necromutilomaniacs"...

IMO.

I'm a graphic artist and I'm not impressed with Sam's work. But, I agree, as best we can tell Sam doesn't have a below average IQ. Now, if we're talking emotional IQ then that's a whole 'nother story.

dangrsmind · #**1468** 11-09-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAXIMUS

As I understand it Sam did most of the graphics for almost all the CDs SKR and WIR sold including their websites, merch etc. I was thinking last night that SKR will probably have to actually pay top dollar for that stuff now with no more Sam to do it for free merch, CDs and pocket change.

Nah, they'll find another kid down on his luck to do it for free.

gxm · #**1469** 11-09-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangrsmind

So apostles get free CDs and merchandise or ???

What sort of promotion activity is expected? Just posting on MySpace etc.?

What a racket they have going on!

dangrsmind · #**1470** 11-09-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gxm

I'm a graphic artist and I'm not impressed with Sam's work. But, I agree, as best we can tell Sam doesn't have a below average IQ. Now, if we're talking emotional IQ then that's a whole 'nother story.

OT: Ever used Kai's Power Tools? I sued to work for Kai.

PAXIMUS · #**1471** 11-09-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gxm

Which is really strange because they found the father's body first. The woman were, IIRC, on the first floor which would lead one to believe that the cops would have found them first before heading upstairs.

I recall one detective saying that the room the females were found in was a seperate area from the main house seperated by what he called in his words, "a sort of BREEZEWAY" this would imply to me that it may have been a small GUEST HOUSE and that was likely where Emma lived. When the cops came in to the main house they immediately went upstairs to check bedrooms, then after realized there was a guest house and thats where the females were. IMO and from what I have read.

This also suggests that Emma and Mel were possibly killed first in their little seperated guest house and when mom came back the next morning maybe to check on them Sam blindsided her. This is also why the cops didnt smell anything when they came to the mainhouse and checked the basement.

When Dad came over he saw Debs van in the driveway went in and called out and she didnt answer so he went upstairs to what was probably moms bedroom to see if she was in there, Sam sneaked up behind him up there and whacked him.

LaWanda · #**1472** 11-09-2009, 02:22 PM

Lets move over to a new thread. This one is wayyy too long.

Four People Murdered in VA College Town #4 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

LaWanda · #**1473** 11-09-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaWanda

Lets move over to a new thread. This one is wayyy too long.

Four People Murdered in VA College Town #4 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Lets move to the other thread. This one will be closed soon.

Thanks!