FL - Somer Thompson, 7, Orange Park, 19 Oct 2009 #18

Just going by what I was told. I think she also met someone in that area. Could have been an SO, or could have been a teen?

twocents said:

While speaking to FDLE on the 21st, the officer told us that she was tracked into the woods on Debarry. That is why that area was searched 4-5 times with and without dogs.

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I wonder if that was her scent from the Friday before. In the video posted, they said a person's scent could last a week.

Watching the video really made me curious when THAT was filmed because there are a lot of cars on Gano. I mean from the perspective of someone seeing something. (not bumper to bumper)

Could be her scent from Friday, but to have LE have the area searched 4-5 times?? Makes me go hmmmm... We were not looking for Somer at that point, just evidence of her possibly being there.

ccane said:

We know she stopped at the vacant house and talked to workers

Then spotted again on sidewalk outside of the home

Also the dogs tracked to Debarry then stopped.. someone had to have picked up in a car or she back tracked toward the school.. maybe she did forget her hat and scarf or homework?

Dog tracks Somer to the intersection of Debarry and Gano, and then loses the scent
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/video...listId=search&maven_referralObject=1303253181

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Thanks for that link. Unfortunately at the end the reporter asks whether the dog really picked up the scent from Somer that day or just a scent from her normal path home. I guess if it were from her normal path you would expect the scent to continue but who knows...That video is from a few days after she went missing. I haven't heard LE mention the scent trail again and the Sheriff didn't say anything about it on AMW.

twocents said:

While speaking to FDLE on the 21st, the officer told us that she was tracked into the woods on Debarry. That is why that area was searched 4-5 times with and without dogs.

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Question on this: How long does the scent of a person linger? Is it possible that she had been in the woods, or on the swings prior to the day in question?

I believe the scent lasts for a few days, and depending on the environment could be longer. But I think LE took what the previous babysitter had said about her liking the woods and they ran with it. Now my question would be... what is a 7yo doing in the woods? She was too young to be out and about on her own, or even with other children unsupervised.

Strange that she would have made it all the way to DeBarry and yet, the last known sighting by an adult of her was at the burned house at 1080G.

FWIW, in the video, the dog handler, St. Johns County Sheriff Department Melanie Russell, said her scent could have lasted a week.

MR used bedsheets to give to Kahlua (sp) for a scent.

But she also said that the conditions on Gano were less than ideal, and if it was all grass or in the woods, that would have been ideal conditions.

Urban conditions bake the scent off the pavement esp. with the contamination of the cars going by -- could have blown her scent from the other side of the street.

One plus was that it was not 85-90 degrees (temp at which scents bake off)

I'm sorry, and I try not to do this often, but I feel a rant coming on.

(not picking on anyone's specific post, as I think that looking into the puppy info is as valid as anything else we're doing right now. But I did want to make some observations for the record, because this brings up some stuff for me).

While animals are used to lure children (so much that its become a veritable cliche), it doesn't take a puppy (or a kitten, or candy) to lure a child. Particularly if that child is lonely or upset or has increased needs for attention and affection in general. Perps seem to be able to smell vulnerability. They can assess a child very quickly, much the same way a batterer seems to be able to zero in on a vulnerable woman - someone he can control - within 3 seconds of meeting her.

And despite what media says that DT says that LE says (about DT prob not knowing the killer), that's third hand info that isn't substantiated at the moment. The killer may actually have been known to Somer (even if that only meant she'd seen him in the neighborhood - that would still be enough to lower her guard).

Some variation on, "Your mother sent me to pick you up," or "your mother was hurt and I'm supposed to come get you," or "hey, my son Tommy wants to play with you. He'll be back soon, come inside and wait," or, "you seem upset, come talk to me and tell me what happened," would make for a fast and easy way to get her into a car or a house. Because despite what DT said in one presser about having warned Somer about "Stranger Danger," this is a child who reportedly stops to shoot the breeze with construction workers - walking inside a fence and right up to them. She's not described as being timid. I can see her walking up to/inside a home in the neighborhood if someone beckoned or called out to her (In fact, she must have frequently gone into the homes of others in order for her mother to have that list of names to call when she was late).


And another thing - while I'm ranting... It may not be applicable in this case, because this perp could well be a stranger or near stranger, BUT I don't get why parents almost exclusively emphasize "stranger danger" to children. The vast majority of children are abused by people they know, if not by people in their own families. Most sex offenders on the registries are there because they got nabbed for abusing kids they knew, many of them relatives or the children of friends and neighbors. After all, every perp is a member of SOMEONE's family, and he lives in SOMEONE's neighborhood. And how well can we ever really know EVERYTHING about another person? Why don't parents tell their children the truth, that some people like to hurt children, and that they don't look different from anyone else - and that sometimes they can be somebody we know. This would open a much more effective dialogue with kids (in my opinion) about how to stay safe.

I think parents emphasize strangers because it makes them really uncomfortable to recognize that this uncertainty exists regarding other people who are part of their lives. People like to think of others as "all good" or "all bad" because it gives them a sense of security and control (however false) if they think they "know" definitively about someone's character. It's like the sex offender registry. It's a great thing to have it, and I'm glad we have access to that info. But people do seem to forget that there are easily ten times more unregistered offenders who live in our communities, and we have no idea who they are. Just going by the odds, its more likely that one of these unregistered offenders will abuse our children. It's important to remember that all SO's, both listed and unlisted, are someone's boyfriend, someone's assistant pastor, someone's uncle, someone's teenage son. And its important for our children to know that too.

Noway - I just don't know. Perhaps the 1080 Gano house is just an innocent stop on the way or it may play a big part. As for the video of the dog stopping. LE was not going to let that information out that she was tracked into the woods because hundreds of people would have descended on that area. My question is..... if they did not believe she went into those woods, then why was it searched on 10/19, 10/20 and again on 10/21? Something sparked their interest.

who was the officer that DT flagged down? Does he live in Orange Park?

Didn't a neighborhood child give a location turning on DeBarry towards home? But this was discounted due to Kyle saying he was the last person to see her? LE could have just been pressuring him him though in saying that. Although Kyle didn't say LE told him that it is an assumption as how would he know of course.

twocents said:

Yes, the big woods on Debarry. I have no doubt she was at the house, but then traveled past the house turning on Debarry (crossing guard was probably already gone at that point) and ending up in the woods. Lots of homes back up to those woods . She was even determined to be at a swingset at one of these houses. This is what FDLE told us as we were searching the area.

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Stopping to talk to workers, at swingset just enjoying her day
hummm is it getting close to 4pm time frame when Mom is driving home yet

twocents said:

Noway - I just don't know. Perhaps the 1080 Gano house is just an innocent stop on the way or it may play a big part. As for the video of the dog stopping. LE was not going to let that information out that she was tracked into the woods because hundreds of people would have descended on that area. My question is..... if they did not believe she went into those woods, then why was it searched on 10/19, 10/20 and again on 10/21? Something sparked their interest.

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Do you know if they searched it again after finding her body?

ETA: It made perfect sense to search those woods based on what they did know from people. And there were reports that she got that far (or the assumption was made) and those were on the 10 pmish news because searchers went out after that looking for her.

It was only later that the last known sighting of Somer became 1080.

That I don't know. I stayed out of the area for a couple of days. Just to hard to go back.

Also, funny how the dogs didn't stop at that Gano house and go no further.

sadnpod said:

I have been told by numerous family members that DT let the older kids "raise" the others. That A had complained that he and AT was the one always taking care of the twins. RUMOR: but it came from a VERY reliable source, but i dont know how to verify it that DT was investigated by CPS when ST was deployed because kids were roaming neighborhood,, twins still in diapers and asked a neighbor if they could have dinner with them.. she called CPS....I think they were stationed in SC..

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The children's father has a legal right to request any past/current CPS investigations. I suggest he do that for every county in which they have lived - you may need a form from their office, but you may be able to download it online.

Does anyone know how late the crossing guards on Somer's route were there that day?

I cannot find anything on the OPPD site but other Florida towns indicate that the crossing guards work two hours in the afternoon.

I don't know how long they are there. I would imagine the would not be there after 3:30. I don't think they are there for the Jr. High kids.

Cheewawa007 said:

You've got my interest up sorrell - what kind of "tells" do you see?

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Hey Chee - thanks for the question! I wish I could link to specific videos that could illustrate what I have personally perceived. I should have kept better records of links! If others are willing to take on that task, a BIG TY!!!

One of the 1st things that stood out to me, in terms of a "tell", was in the videos that were available immediately after the victim was ID'ed. The mother's speech was very rapid, verbose, rattling on in a nervous manner, as if trying to "fill in the blanks". There were times when media asked a question, and the mother started to answer the question, but stopped mid-sentence, and motioned with her hands toward the bystanders behind her. One of the questions I remember that was asked was regarding how her children were dealing with the death of their sister (this is not verbatim). I know you all remember how she started to answer the question "They're a mess..." and then she interrupted herself and talked about her oldest son punching things, and how a child, a boy, a son ( this is not an exact quote!) doesn't express "re..."

How many words begin with "re" in that context? Not many.

That was a tell. She stopped herself from finishing her sentence. And immediately, she began to gesture toward the bystanders and talked about the grief of the community, and her speech pattern became rapid as her arm and hand movements drew attention away from herself, and drew the eye of the viewers to others nearby (and the media camera followed her gestures!).

But she never finished her original sentence, when talking about her oldest and his response, and his expression of some emotion that began with "re...".

In my experience (regarding crimes), when someone tries to draw attention away from themselves, they do it on purpose. One of the reasons is that they have something to hide. The natural question to ask at that point is: what do they have to hide?

When a witness answers questions that weren't asked, or gives more information than was asked for, they're attempting to conceal something, and are hoping not only that the verbosity of their words will satisfy those asking the questions, but, more importantly, that the original question is forgotten altogether.

I would like to address additional "tells" in future posts.

I am hesitant to post my own perceptions, since I have been in Diena's position to a certain extent (with my own daughter). But if what I have to say might help, which is why I originally joined WS, then I am willing to take that risk, in order to help solve this horrific crime.

So please, ask away!

I will try my best to answer.