Was Burke involved?

Agatha_C said:

I think he would cover for Patsy, if he thought daddy would cut him off from the cash flow. Hey wouldnt that make Patsy the cash cow? Money is a very strong motivator, its what drove that whole family and their circle of friends and acquaintances. We tend to ignore the potency of the almighty dollar.

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Or, he knew that his Dad was equally involved. He truly did seem the most upset of everyone in the fancily. That could be love, anger, guilt, or a combination of the above. I am also not totally convinced that the suitcase wasn't more important.

SunnieRN said:

Or, he knew that his Dad was equally involved. He truly did seem the most upset of everyone in the fancily. That could be love, anger, guilt, or a combination of the above. I am also not totally convinced that the suitcase wasn't more important.

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Sunnie,

I agree that the suitcase was important, I'm just not sure if the things inside of it were. Those things could have been in the suitcase for any number of reasons and like you, I feel its another question unanswered as well as unasked.

If he brought the duvet home for laundering, in the suitcase,as John suggested, then it should have been near the washer. If he did bring it home in the suitcase, why in heavens name was a Childs book in the suitcase with it? As I asked before, was someone trying to cover their own behind, by implicating JAR? Or, what? Not at all the norm, and if someone was cleaning up, as suggested earlier in the thread, why put a book inside of JAR's suitcase?

If you read about the basement, certainly nothing else was 'cleaned up'.

Remember that John established that it was JAR's suitcase. Maybe another deflection from John himself? Was John deflecting and got lucky that JAR's semen was on the duvet, thereby always a suspicion being left behind that JAR was JonBenets abuser? Grrrr this makes my head ache sometimes! It also makes me wonder if John was as evil as I am beginning to believe he was?!

This should have been talked about, as you said Agatha!

Detective Science Crime Solving Case Breaking Crook Catching Ativities for kids


[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Detective-Science-Crime-Solving-Case-Breaking-Crook-Catching/dp/0471119806/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1298329560&sr=1-2#reader_0471119806"]Amazon.com: Detective Science: 40 Crime-Solving, Case-Breaking, Crook-Catching Activities for Kids (9780471119807): Jim Wiese: Books[/ame]




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Copyright 1996 Reed Business Information, Inc.

From School Library Journal

Grade 4-7?Wiese offers readers the opportunity to delve into the world of crime detection and forensic science. Through 40 projects and experiments, youngsters are encouraged to develop their skills of observation and creative thinking; investigate the scene of a crime; analyze evidence by means of chemistry; use biology to learn more about a crime; and analyze documents to solve it. Each project includes an introduction, a materials list, step-by-step procedures, questions, and an explanation. For many of the projects there is also a "More Fun Stuff to Do" section for extending the investigation. Notes on the need for adult help and safety cautions appear in bold print. Scattered throughout the text are "Detective Science in Action" inserts that relate the science principles behind an activity to its use in solving real-life crimes. Robert Sheely's Police Lab (Silver Moon, 1993) and Robert Gardner's Crime Lab 101 (Walker, 1992) also explore crime-detection methods, but the range of projects and Wiese's clear, lively writing make his book a particularly fine choice for this audience. It will be a valuable addition to collections where science activities are in demand, especially where Wiese's Roller Coaster Science (1994) and Rocket Science (1995, both Wiley) are popular.?Carolyn Angus, The Claremont Graduate School, CA
Copyright 1996 Reed Business Information, Inc.

SunnieRN said:

If he brought the duvet home for laundering, in the suitcase,as John suggested, then it should have been near the washer. If he did bring it home in the suitcase, why in heavens name was a Childs book in the suitcase with it? As I asked before, was someone trying to cover their own behind, by implicating JAR? Or, what? Not at all the norm, and if someone was cleaning up, as suggested earlier in the thread, why put a book inside of JAR's suitcase?

If you read about the basement, certainly nothing else was 'cleaned up'.

Remember that John established that it was JAR's suitcase. Maybe another deflection from John himself? Was John deflecting and got lucky that JAR's semen was on the duvet, thereby always a suspicion being left behind that JAR was JonBenets abuser? Grrrr this makes my head ache sometimes! It also makes me wonder if John was as evil as I am beginning to believe he was?!

This should have been talked about, as you said Agatha!

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I found this in my notes today and thought I would share it with you Sunnie. I'm curious to know what everyone thinks about this interview.


0712
19 LOU SMIT: Okay. I would like to
20 talk to you about John Andrew's suitcase.
21 That's a suitcase that you thought might be the
22 one in photograph number 248. This was a
23 suitcase in the train room that you said you
24 moved a little bit.
25 JOHN RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

0713
1 LOU SMIT: And I would like to ask
2 you just some questions. Do you know what a
3 sham is or a duvet?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: (Shaking head).
5 LOU SMIT: Two type of things?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: Sham is a blanket,
7 right? But duvet, I don't know.
8 LOU SMIT: Do you recall any shams
9 or duvets being in your house? I know if you
10 don't know what a duvet is, you probably don't
11 know to say it was in there but --
12 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I don't.
13 A sham, I mean I don't know if I
14 know what a sham was, a small blanket. That's
15 purely a guess, but we had lots of little
16 blankets and stuff like that around.
17 LOU SMIT: How about a Dr. Suess
18 book, do you remember anything in a Dr. Suess
19 book, either associated with John Andrew or
20 associated with JonBenet or anything that --
21 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, we had lots of
22 kids' books. We had bookshelves full of them.
23 I know that they had -- I know I read to 'em,
24 Dr. Suess books, so I am sure they were there.
25 LOU SMIT: Do you know why there
0714
1 would be a sham and duvet and a Dr. Suess book
2 in that suitcase?
3 JOHN RAMSEY: Could you tell me
4 what a duvet is?
5 LOU SMIT: A duvet is also
6 something that fits on like on a couch or almost
7 a little blanket that fits on a couch.
8 JOHN RAMSEY: A square or does it
9 fit?
10 LOU SMIT: Yes. I have never seen
11 this, I don't have a photograph of it, but can
12 you think of why there would be a sham or duvet
13 in John Andrew's suitcase along with a Dr. Suess
14 book?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: No. My recollection
16 of where that suitcase came from was he brought
17 some clothes from Atlanta, where he went to
18 school, and when the kid left to go to school be
19 and every port in a storm in his apartment, and
20 it ended up and it was in his room for a while,
21 then it was in the laundry room outside of his
22 room for a while, and then I carried it
23 downstairs. I presumed it was empty.

LS seems to be mistaking a "duvet" for a "divan". A divan is a little couch. A duvet is a comforter that has a removable cover. This way, only the cover needs to be laundered instead of whole thing. They come in any size EXCEPT a small square like a throw. They come in bedding sizes- twin, full, queen, king. And JR still dances around why the children's book was in there. He "assumed" the suitcase was empty. He admits the duvet was JAR's. A sham is a pillowcase cover that matches a comforter, duvet or bedspread. JR tries to hide behind the "I'm a MAN so I don't really know about these things" BS.
JR's whole line of replies is hogwash. So are the questions, IMO.

Ageed 100% DeeDee! He was not questioned, he was led to give a non sensical, non explanatory statement. Which was incomplete at best. So, was this duvet from college? lS didn't establish anything. Why was it moved from upstairs? When? Didn't the duvet need to be laundered and returned?

If John did carry the suitcase downstairs, that means it was brought from a room upstairs. If it had been there for quite some time, as John insinuated, I find the fact that the book was also in there, even more questionable.

I honestly see LS deflecting as much as possible away from John, rather than away from 'the R's.'

gngr~snap said:

Honestly I voted Burke did it. Nothing planned, not jealously, just kids being kids. Maybe JBR ticked him off... and he whacked her with something. Up until now I thought PR. Then a girlfriend of mine told me how she at 10 pushed her 6yo brother out of their tree house. He ticked her off she pushed and out he went- passed out cold. She covered him with leaves and left him for
dead. When he was late to dinner her mom was MAD! HE DID show up shortly and as his mom was fixing his plate and yelling at him for not being home on time, my friend told him "if you tell on me... I will kill you next time! " He got grounded she got away with it. (she NEVER struck me as being a mean kid) she and her brother are very close now! 40 years later! and have been since High School. She had NO IDEA at 10 he could have died during the night of a closed head injury. And they NEVER told their mother not then and not up until the day she died. Her brother got her back as he got older, lying to their mom about her boyfriends he didn't like. She knew why.
So yes, Burke did it IMO and the Ramsey's covered for him so he wouldn't be labeled as a kid that kills.

MOO

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I remember when this story first broke. My first reaction was JR...then, just the way B was being talked about, it occurred to me that they were protecting him. I have always thought that. Everyone said it was because of his age and they wanted him away from the drama, which I can understand. But other families I have seen stay just that...a family. Everyone is there, everyone endures the same thing. JMO IMO :cow:

Agatha_C said:

17 LOU SMIT: How about a Dr. Suess
18 book, do you remember anything in a Dr. Suess
19 book, either associated with John Andrew or
20 associated with JonBenet or anything that --

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what is he talking about?
a note maybe ?a photo?
this is interesting

and JR changes the subject,LS gets no answer

madeleine said:

what is he talking about?
a note maybe ?a photo?
this is interesting

and JR changes the subject,LS gets no answer

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Maddy, It could be as simple as JARs name being written in the book or perhaps they found something we havent heard about (being that we only know about 10% of the goings on). However, it could be more complicated and let me share my speculations with you.

I have had many a child in my house and with all children there comes a day when they leave, for what ever reason, they all spread their wings and fly. I always give to those leaving me, usually for school (thank the higher power) a book by Dr Sues, titled "Oh! The Places You will Go!"(A link to where you can read it http://www.teamhope.com/seuss.htm) Excellent gift for kids going to college a reminder of the child they had been and the adult they are becoming. It very well could have been a graduation present from his mother or any family member. Could be why it was still in the suitcase. JR said the suit case belonged to his first wife and the kids used it go back and forth, but it ended up with JAR, when he moved to Colorado for college. Maybe he never took it out of the suitcase.

Also, it could have been something read to Jonbenet and BR while their mother was fighting cancer, but the book still belonged to JAR as his name was written inside.

What ever the books title was, this book eerily fits this family.

The book was a Dr. Suess book, right? Wouldn't it be creepy if it was, "How the Grinch stole Christmas,"?

What does everyone make of the picture at the link below; it's the one in the corner:

http://www.acandyrose.com/12141998PM-UnsolvedMysterypg131(44).jpg

It says it was taken in 1997 so it wasn't even a year after JonBenet's murder. Maybe I'm looking too much into it but Burke seems to be loving all the new attention by his parents due to him being an only child now.

eileenhawkeye said:

What does everyone make of the picture at the link below; it's the one in the corner:

http://www.acandyrose.com/12141998PM-UnsolvedMysterypg131(44).jpg

It says it was taken in 1997 so it wasn't even a year after JonBenet's murder. Maybe I'm looking too much into it but Burke seems to be loving all the new attention by his parents due to him being an only child now.

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I totally agree. Actually, it seemed BR loved being an only child from the day his sister died. He went to the White's that morning, smiling and holding his new Nintendo. Within days, he told a doctor that he was "just getting on with his life".
No more "Mega- JonBenet". No more mommy & JB pageant Sundays. No more mommy carting JB to her many dance and pageant coaching sessions, fittings and photo shoots. It was HIS time now. Sad, but I can understand.
To be fair, children do have remarkable powers of recovery, and a year after JB's death, I am not surprised to see him happy and smiling, even if he had been devastated by her death. As for his parents, they, too, had no one else to focus on, so they were able to give him the undivided attention he probably had always craved.

eileenhawkeye said:

What does everyone make of the picture at the link below; it's the one in the corner:

http://www.acandyrose.com/12141998PM-UnsolvedMysterypg131(44).jpg

It says it was taken in 1997 so it wasn't even a year after JonBenet's murder. Maybe I'm looking too much into it but Burke seems to be loving all the new attention by his parents due to him being an only child now.

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I totally agree. Good find!

I think BR was not directly invovled in JB's death,but I do think he knows more than he is saying.It would be interesting to know exactly what he said to LE on the morning he was questioned without his parents present for 41 mins.

dunno,this first interview (only 5 days after the murder) always bothered me...okay maybe religion does help people recover but does it happen THAT fast?come on!

JOHN B. RAMSEY, JONBENET'S FATHER: And we want to thank them, to let them know that we are healing

RAMSEY, J: I know. Well, we were fortunate from almost the moment that we found the note to be surrounded by friends, our minister, our family doctor, a personal friend of mine who is also an attorney

RAMSEY, J: Not because we're angry, but because we have got to go on.

CABELL: Do you take some comfort in believing that JonBenet Ramsey is in a better place.

RAMSEY, J: Yes. That's the one thing we want people dealing with us to know, to believe that, we know that in our heart.

RAMSEY, P: She'll never have to know the loss of a child . She will never have to know cancer or death of a child.


they talk like it's a good thing that this happened!she's safe now,she's in the better place,good,let's move on

also,in this interview she says she screamed for John AFTER she checked JB's room
this is not what she says in the police interviews,is it?

It was just very early in the morning, and I started to read it, and it was addressed to John. It said "Mr. Ramsey," And it said, "we have your daughter." And I -- you know, it just was -- it just wasn't registering, and I -- I may have gotten through another sentence. I can't -- "we have your daughter." and I don't know if I got any further than that. And I immediately ran back upstairs and pushed open her door, and she was not in her bed, and I screamed for John.


http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/01011997ramseysoncnn.htm

madeleine said:

also,in this interview she says she screamed for John AFTER she checked JB's room
this is not what she says in the police interviews,is it?

It was just very early in the morning, and I started to read it, and it was addressed to John. It said "Mr. Ramsey," And it said, "we have your daughter." And I -- you know, it just was -- it just wasn't registering, and I -- I may have gotten through another sentence. I can't -- "we have your daughter." and I don't know if I got any further than that. And I immediately ran back upstairs and pushed open her door, and she was not in her bed, and I screamed for John.


http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/01011997ramseysoncnn.htm

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idk,but she gave several different versions of what went on that morning,depending on who she was talking to or where it was written (their book,for example.I don't think it matches other versions of what she had previously said).seems they change the story to suit the occasion.

madeleine said:

dunno,this first interview (only 5 days after the murder) always bothered me...okay maybe religion does help people recover but does it happen THAT fast?come on!

JOHN B. RAMSEY, JONBENET'S FATHER: And we want to thank them, to let them know that we are healing

RAMSEY, J: I know. Well, we were fortunate from almost the moment that we found the note to be surrounded by friends, our minister, our family doctor, a personal friend of mine who is also an attorney

RAMSEY, J: Not because we're angry, but because we have got to go on.

CABELL: Do you take some comfort in believing that JonBenet Ramsey is in a better place.

RAMSEY, J: Yes. That's the one thing we want people dealing with us to know, to believe that, we know that in our heart.

RAMSEY, P: She'll never have to know the loss of a child . She will never have to know cancer or death of a child.


they talk like it's a good thing that this happened!she's safe now,she's in the better place,good,let's move on

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their friends in Atlanta said the same thing...John and Patsy just want to get on with their lives...seems to me,this was a que for LE to back off...IOW-they didn't care..just leave em alone.leave IT (the murder) alone.WHY? because they had much to hide,IMO.

The comment by Patsy: "She'll never have to know the loss of a child . She will never have to know cancer or death of a child." is very strange to me. I would rather my child live a long life and have to go through the ups and downs that we all go through, then have them be brutally murdered at age 6. I just can't see Marc Klaas, Erin Runnion, or the Van Dam's saying something similar.

The most disturbing thing about that interview is it was only 5 days later.

ETA: It seems like a parent of a murdered child will say something like, "I'll never get to see her go to prom or get married or..." instead of listing all the bad things that could happen. Even if JonBenet did end up getting ovarian cancer or suffering the loss of a child, that wouldn't be until she was much older so what about all the years before then? High school, college, her 20's?