NY-LI-4 bodies on Beach-Possible SK-12/10-All id'd,4 more found 3/11 #3

About 5 years ago I rented a cottage on Oak Island. Looking at the map, I see that the most recent bodies that were found were located right across from Oak Island, and not far from the parking lot and little dock where people park & keep their boats to go to Oak Island. (You have to take a private boat across to get to Oak Island. It's short enough that you could even row, if you had to.)

Oak Island has a bunch of cottages/homes along a boardwalk. There's nothing else there - I think behind the cottages it's all wetlands or something, it's protected land. I don't know if any of the homes are winterized or if anyone is there in the winter, but some of the "cottages" are quite big, like houses. There's nothing else there - no stores or anything. It's very quiet.

I have no reason to think there's any connection but I'm just mentioning it because it really is so close, quiet and has summer homes. The parking lot the owners use is right off of Ocean Parkway.

trigger said:

Good question. IDK.

Do you think that is why the girls in AC were facing east???

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I really hadn't thought about the bodies facing east being connected to CL. Can you elaborate on why you ask? Now you have piqued my curiosity!

wm

Does anybody have photos at their fingertips of JB and the other guy who was questioned and 'is not smart enough to pull of these murders' (according to LE).

I just want to compare the photos to SuzieQ's link with the composite sketch.

Thanks to anyone who can help!

wm

Verity said:

I just found this GREAT photo of a huge Oak Island Beach Association sign at the entrance, which clearly shows the location at the junction of Anchor Way and the Fairway. You can clearly see the the straw colored phragmites (rat tail weeds) in the background, which could be mistaken for "corn fields" - although they're actually wetlands.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/04...roperty-values-decreasing-after-bodies-found/

This answers a question from a few pages back, reposting below:



Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-Long Island-4 bodies on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010- All id'd, #2

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I'd like to see how clear that sign is at 2 AM in May.

Soulmagent said:

Ok I was thinking over one of the links that was posted for one of the AC victims and I remembered that her mother had died after being on the list for a heart transplant list so I thought that was interesting being that there might be a question about the girls knowing the suspect and about a doctor and LE saying there was an AC connection.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07035/759320-85.stm#ixzz1IwsWeTkW

So reading this article over the reoccuring "friend" theme stands out along with the different discription of her attitude ,also interesting that her names also starts with an M like 3 of the woman who were found In dec.

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That's a very sad article. Poor woman.

It sounds like she was doing high-end tricks, though, with the amount of money they're talking about. It sounds like she had more than one contact with a rather well-heeled client over the course of several months.

"When Molly said she needed some money, she would pick up the phone, make a phone call, then she would leave from here," Miss Coleman said. "Then, next thing you know, when she'd come back, she'd have money."

"She would have $500 in her pocket," Mrs. Burton said. "I'd say, 'Where'd you get that money from?' She said, 'Oh, a friend of mine.' That was it."

and

"After one absence of a week, Molly returned to West Colona and showed off a stunning black dress, a gift, she said, from an admirer with whom she had stayed in Atlantic City.

"She said she stayed at the Borgata," Rondell Burton said. The Borgata is touted as Atlantic City's most luxurious hotel-casino. "That was her first time going to Atlantic City. She said she really enjoyed herself and that she got to gamble for the first time, got to really see the beach, and that she would like to go back sometime."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07035/759320-85.stm#ixzz1J95lwRNi

wow!!!!!

compare the two and let me know if you think these are as similar as I think they are:

http://www.oakbeachcivicassociation.com/about/executive_board (2nd pic down)
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/18/48hours/main2825050.shtml (sketch of john on left side of page)

the hat, glasses, and nose are dead ringers imo.

waltzingmatilda said:

Was CL a trend for hiring escorts in 2006 when the AC bodies were found?

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CL adult services, originally classified under "erotic services," appears to have been around since at least 2004-2005ish. ( [ame=http://www.clreviews.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6475]link[/ame] ) Historically, they replaced "erotic services" with "adult services" in May 2009.( link ) And they finally shut that section down completely ( link ) after a fairly vocal twitter campaign ( link ) that was a result of CNN's Amber Lyon's coverage, wherein she confronted the founder with allegations of Child Sex Trafficking in this video. ( link ) I'm guessing, though do not know, the shut down was strategic, in that they shut it down just prior to testifying before congress. ( link ) You can still find these sorts of ads on craigslist. Of course. Just search for massage on the CL of your choice. Also, from what I've read, many of these sort of services have moved to the Village Voice's online classified, backpage. ( link )

waltzingmatilda said:

Does anybody have photos at their fingertips of JB and the other guy who was questioned and 'is not smart enough to pull of these murders' (according to LE).

I just want to compare the photos to SuzieQ's link with the composite sketch.

Thanks to anyone who can help!

wm

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Here is one guy who was questioned in AC.

http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/cover-story/The-Fifth-Victim.html

Terry olsen AC murder suspect who was cleared.

concentric said:

Who would be that precise and exacting with measurement in placing the bodies?

A surveyor? Engineer? Someone marking off boundaries for home construction or other construction?

LE is looking at people who would have reason to be at the beach area routinely in their work.

I questioned before: people plowing sand.

There are workers who routinely clean up and grade or plow sand on beaches.

What did the client do for employment?

Some drifter who used to be with the Corps. of Engineers?

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Great points.

What exactly is the reason for the placement of the bodies every 500 feet?

So the perp could locate the bodies, to revisit the burial grounds?

Meticulous OCD-type behaviour?

What is the timeline on the bodies and their placement?

Since the SK used the causeway furthest east for the "oldest", unidentified remains, did they move westward, and place the 1st victim closest to the causeway, and continue on in a westward fashion? (Refer to the map I posted above to see what I mean by this, if it is not clear).

The 500 foot placement is quite a clue, really.

Soulmagent said:

I dont recall them stating the cause of death for sure and have seen conflicting reports on this so I was wondering if you had a link?

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They haven't stated a CoD for the LI murders, hence my qualifier "That is, assuming the guy is also responsible for the AC murders." As for the AC murders? Here you go!
Full article: click here

shadowraiths, YOU ROCK:rocker:

I appreciate the time you took to provide the detailed history of CL erotic/adult services.

Soulmagnet, YOU ROCK TOO:rocker:

Thanks for providing this link. It's no wonder this man was questioned. He looks alot like the composite too.

wm

trigger said:

Good question. IDK.

Do you think that is why the girls in AC were facing east???

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The "facing east" info is perplexing.

There must be more that LE is not releasing with respect to that subject.

Is it common for LE to note the location the body is facing?

What is the signifigance of the EAST?

Could it be the Eastern Vs. the Western world???

kikid said:

wow!!!!!

compare the two and let me know if you think these are as similar as I think they are:

http://www.oakbeachcivicassociation.com/about/executive_board (2nd pic down)
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/18/48hours/main2825050.shtml (sketch of john on left side of page)

the hat, glasses, and nose are dead ringers imo.

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kikid, the similarities are WOW!

I am still looking for a photo of the guy who is not smart. I know I saw a photo of him somewhere in a news article. (I must be more discliplined on taking notes.)

IIRC, he looked scruffy too!

moo wm

Wondergirl said:

The "facing east" info is perplexing.

There must be more that LE is not releasing with respect to that subject.

Is it common for LE to note the location the body is facing?

What is the signifigance of the EAST?

Could it be the Eastern Vs. the Western world???

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~ above respectfully BBM~

This is exactly why I am suspicious of the Asian man!

wm

waltzingmatilda said:

Does anybody have photos at their fingertips of JB and the other guy who was questioned and 'is not smart enough to pull of these murders' (according to LE).

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Article containg pic of JB: click here

Article containing pic of Mr. "not smart enough": click here.

Okay, my turn for a question. While trying to get up to speed on this case, I could swear that I saw an article stating JB was not the individual SG named in the 911 call. I thought I bookmarked it, but apparently not. Or I dreamed it. Bc, for the life of me, I cannot find it. If anyone else recalls the article, importantly, has a link to the article, I would really appreciate it! TIA!

Wondergirl said:

Great points.

What exactly is the reason for the placement of the bodies every 500 feet?

So the perp could locate the bodies, to revisit the burial grounds?

Meticulous OCD-type behaviour?

What is the timeline on the bodies and their placement?

Since the SK used the causeway furthest east for the "oldest", unidentified remains, did they move westward, and place the 1st victim closest to the causeway, and continue on in a westward fashion? (Refer to the map I posted above to see what I mean by this, if it is not clear).

The 500 foot placement is quite a clue, really.

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If an environmental inspection of the park involved taking samples every 500ft, then it would be useful to space the bodies in between the inspection points to decrease the chances of discovery. This is pure speculation on my part, but since this case isn't complicated enough already, I thought I'd add another possibility. :bang:

Soulmagent said:

Thank you, So the answer is Yes there is a sign and she should have know she was not on Jones beach even if they are close. Is the any dirt back roads that one does not have to enter the gate side to get into OakBeach from Jonesbeach?

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This may have been discussed before on the thread that I missed, and I'm not sure why you're asking the question. I don't know about footpaths, there's always a cut through another house yard, but IMOO, since it's referred to as a "Gated Community" and not just an "Association", then it would only have one vehicular entrance, the one that you can see in the photo.

BTW, this sign may be lit at night, and since there's power there for the gate, it's quite likely that it is lit.

Question: How do we know this was SG's first visit? I'm discounting her calling it "Jones Beach", because locals have said they do the same, so that in itself isn't sufficient to convince me this wasn't a repeat visit.

shadowraiths said:

Okay, my turn for a question. While trying to get up to speed on this case, I could swear that I saw an article stating JB was not the individual SG named in the 911 call. I thought I bookmarked it, but apparently not. Or I dreamed it. Bc, for the life of me, I cannot find it. If anyone else recalls the article, importantly, has a link to the article, I would really appreciate it! TIA!

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Do you think Shannon had JB's real name, though?

The twisted Craigslist Ripper stalked the teenage sister of one of his victims, taunting her in six telephone calls.

He even revealed to 16-year-old Amanda Barthelemy that her sister Melissa was a prostitute - a secret she had kept from her family.

The sadistic serial killer, who police fear may have stalked and strangled to death at least eight vice girls over the past five years, would only talk to the teen.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nt-texts-strangling-victim.html#ixzz1J9KRV1R4


It was the first real clue about the twisted psyche of a predator who stalked and choked to death at least eight prostitutes in the last five years, and possibly murdered four others.

That's the body count after cops this week linked the murder of Melissa Barthelemy and three other prostitutes found near Gilgo Beach in Suffolk County in December to four dead sex workers left in a ditch near Atlantic City in 2006, sources told The Post.

All died from strangulation, their corpses stashed before being dumped.

"It's the same guy," said one law-enforcement source.

A third cluster of four bodies discovered a few miles from Gilgo Beach last week has fueled speculation that a Long Island serial killer used the sandy south shore as his burial ground.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/1...lead-search-long-island-killer/#ixzz1J9JK6uMu


I am not sure what I think about all of that...

RIGHTEOUS1 said:

Now the Post has the Call "word for word" give me a break.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/sicko_call_from_slay_gal_cell_5COah6gj6Xkk2gT4KgekcI

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The driver returned the next day with Gilbert's boyfriend to continue their search.

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The supposed DR claimed in his call to her family that her driver came back & picked her up the next morning..The truth is (at least according to this article & others) he did go back to the neighborhood the next day..Kinda funny the DR chose a version that just happened to be correct except he said nothing about the "boyfriend"..Or could be he really did see the driver (& only him) looking for her..His other claim was she was "fine" when she got in the car & left..So obvious that all of this meant to lead the frantic family away from Oak Beach.

I don't think anyone believes a word of this 'story' & many don't believe the call even came from the DR..That includes me BUT! what if whoever made that call wasn't making up a 'story'? How far out would it be that Shannon really was with this person who didn't want to reveal his true identity..That she really had been in danger that night from the SK but got away just to end up being killed by 'someone else'..She did afterall cause a huge commotion & made numerous calls to LE who eventually arrived on the scene..It caused LE to investigate the 'john' & her 'private world' which I assume is a no-no.

None of us know for sure she worked alone thru Craigslist..Maybe, just maybe, she was too much trouble then she was worth to someone/some ppl..Especially if she was known to be 'unstable' & couldn't be trusted.

A smart SK wouldn't dump her body with the others (leading straight back to that community) so I'm not surprised at all she wasn't found with the 'group'..Now, possibly, there could be another reason why she wasn't & yes! I know this sounds :crazy:

Some say there's a reason for everything & maybe it was just meant to be that Shannon would play a role in the discovery of the others & this sick SK..I honestly don't think this way at all but I could be persuaded to go there if this :crazy: scenario should ever be proven.

I'm the last person to think 'out of the box' but there's something pulling me in that direction re: this case..I don't even get it myself so if nobody else does either I won't be offended..Honest!