GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 7

angelanalyzes said:

I believe the apartment was messy due to the investigation, because in a more recent article it was stated McD was indeed quite neat. Anyone know which article that was?

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think it might have been the one about him missing the bar prep class, angel. At any rate, one of the ones where there were quotes from the older guy who lives at the complex and was also a law student -- he said SM would make a good roommate because he was neat

southern_comfort said:

All good points... but speaking for myself, I am still pretty sure that if I were standing in SM's shoes as an innocent person and the press (or anyone else) asked me if I knew whether LG had enemies or anyone who wanted to hurt her, I would not immediately connect the dots to someone who was (a) a neighbor, (b) an authority figure at my apartment complex and (c) a fellow student for a period of years being on a shared, publicly accessible balcony, even if the proffered explanation for being there were odd.

While we are on this topic... Why would SM make the story so crazy? I mean... cutting a non-existent lawn in the middle of the night? Why not just say, "I just remembered that I saw so and so on the balcony at midnight and it just occurred to me that there's really no reason for him to have been there", or even to ascribe some false but not nutty explanation (e.g., "He said he was on the balcony checking the railing because he glanced up and thought he had noticed a loose piece of railing from the ground"). I look at a few pieces of information in this case and sometimes think that, if it were premeditated, then part of the plan must have been to make it so ridiculous and bungling that people would hear it and say, "Even a complete idiot would be smarter than that, and he's a law school graduate. Nobody is that stupid. Not guilty!"

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I think the reason he's added this ridiculous comment to this "story" is because
this is something he was telling his mother. And just like some other quotes from GM
of things SM told her where he sounds like some child talking, this is probably the
only way he knows how to interact with her. He's probably always given her nutty,
off-the-wall explanations for his actions, and this has always worked.
This is yet another one of those little glimpses into that home.

~SuperSleuth~ said:

I think the reason he's added this ridiculous comment to this "story" is because
this is something he was telling his mother. And just like some other quotes from GM
of things SM told her where he sounds like some child talking, this is probably the
only way he knows how to interact with her. He's probably always given her nutty,
off-the-wall explanations for his actions, and this has always worked.
This is yet another one of those little glimpses into that home.

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But --if he were innocent--the ridiculousness of the story would have come from the person he encountered on the balcony, not from him.

Regarding other things GM has said SM told her that some have said sounded like a child: The one I remember being pointed out most was when he is said to have said to her, on his phone call to her during that marathon of questioning, something along the lines of "They say I did something very bad. They say I hurt somebody."

I think it's possible GM had not heard anything about Lauren's being missing or her body being found -- or at least, SM did not know whether she had. I think it possible he was only trying to explain a very horrendous situation to a mom that it would strike, as far as he knew, out of the blue.

Backwoods said:

I think, if SM were innocent, it very well might not have come immediately to mind.

Perhaps he would have thought of the MM as an innocuous sort of fellow and known of no problem between MM and Lauren. Even with the hint that "something weird" had happened on Thursday night, according to LG's email, the encounter would not necessarily have jumped immediately to mind, IMO, in response to a reporter's question, "Do you know of anyone who would want to hurt her?"

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If he had just walked up on the scene completely unaware, maybe, maybe not. But in the context of all that occurred in the twelve or so hours prior to the interview, I can't believe a person of his intelligence would not have remembered that detail.

It wasn't the first time he was asked the question, either. When a crime occurs, or is apparent, and the perpetrator is unknown, what are the first questions LE asks witnesses? Have you observed any strangers hanging around? Anyone behaving suspiciously? McD would have been asked those types of questions at least twice prior to the interview: once the night before, and again when questioned at the station the next morning. And regardless, with his analytical mind, he would have asked those questions of himself. Surely, at some point, the encounter with the MM would have entered his thoughts.

The other question is whether or not he would've told the reporter? If innocent, no. He would've been reluctant to publicly incriminate the MM and declined to comment.

He would've told police, because by his own account, according to his mother, he perceived the MM man's behavior as suspicious. If not, then why mention it now?

If guilty? No, because he's too smart. He assessed what an innocent person would do and responded accordingly. Actually, the smartest thing to do would've been to say "no comment" and walk away. He faltered, imo, because he was afraid of losing control. That's a terrific fear for someone with annihilation anxiety. Remaining engaged in the interview, led by the camera's objective eye and the reporter's empathic ear, was a desperate attempt to hold himself together. And his odd behavior was not shock or concern for Lauren, but rather severe panic. (My :twocents: psych eval, fwiw )

bessie said:

If he had just walked up on the scene completely unaware, maybe, maybe not. But in the context of all that occurred in the twelve or so hours prior to the interview, I can't believe a person of his intelligence would not have remembered that detail.

It wasn't the first time he was asked the question, either. When a crime occurs, or is apparent, and the perpetrator is unknown, what are the first questions LE asks witnesses? Have you observed any strangers hanging around? Anyone behaving suspiciously? McD would have been asked those types of questions at least twice prior to the interview: once the night before, and again when questioned at the station the next morning. And regardless, with his analytical mind, he would have asked those questions of himself. Surely, at some point, the encounter with the MM would have entered his thoughts.

The other question is whether or not he would've told the reporter? If innocent, no. He would've been reluctant to publicly incriminate the MM and declined to comment.

He would've told police, because by his own account, according to his mother, he perceived the MM man's behavior as suspicious. If not, then why mention it now?

If guilty? No, because he's too smart. He assessed what an innocent person would do and responded accordingly. Actually, the smartest thing to do would've been to say "no comment" and walk away. He faltered, imo, because he was afraid of losing control. That's a terrific fear for someone with annihilation anxiety. Remaining engaged in the interview, led by the camera's objective eye and the reporter's empathic ear, was a desperate attempt to hold himself together. And his odd behavior was not shock or concern for Lauren, but rather severe panic. (My :twocents: psych eval, fwiw )

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Maybe he did tell the police.

Not meaning to interrupt any discussions going on right now, but did anyone else catch this (near the bottom of this article)? Does this mean Boni Bush may have inadvertently put the torso in the trash? Was she cleaning out Apt. #1? She wouldn't have been taking out trash from any other apt., would she??

http://georgiaslate.com/blog/macon-news/hacksaw-linked-to-mcdaniel-in-giddings-case-warrant-says

Bush said she can remember throwing something in the trash can June 29, the day before Lauren Giddings’ torso was discovered, bundled in plastic, in the roll-away bin beside apartment No. 1.
Bush said she didn’t smell any foul odors.

Backwoods said:

But --if he were innocent--the ridiculousness of the story would have come from the person he encountered on the balcony, not from him.

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Well, his lawyer has stated LE doesn't consider him a POI and that's he not involved.
And, I believe 2 of the users here that apparently know DD have stated
he has a very solid alibi for the night SM says he was on that balcony.
So, IMO, it never happened.

Backwoods said:

Regarding other things GM has said SM told her that some have said sounded like a child: The one I remember being pointed out most was when he is said to have said to her, on his phone call to her during that marathon of questioning, something along the lines of "They say I did something very bad. They say I hurt somebody."

I think it's possible GM had not heard anything about Lauren's being missing or her body being found -- or at least, SM did not know whether she had. I think it possible he was only trying to explain a very horrendous situation to a mom that it would strike, as far as he knew, out of the blue.

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You could be right on this. GM could even be putting those words into his mouth.
We generally trust reporters to accurately quote someone, since I would imagine
when they do so, they have some audio/video to back it up.
So, we really can't take GM's quoting of SM to be literal.

No, tomkat I said nothing even remotely similar to what your assessment alleges that i did:

So you are saying this forum comments are much ado about nothing.............but that's why it's called a message board. Where people can post their comments.

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..

Infact the complete opposite was said:

As for possible vs probable.. That truly varies by each personal opinion and we are all welcome to voice what those thoughts or opinions are and they are going to vary widely from one end of the spectrum to the other.. With some believing it possible if not probable that this was a premeditated murder while others feel this isn't likely even a possibility.. To each their own..

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The only thing that I made a comment about was a fact that remains no matter what one's view, opinion, or thought is about any/all evidence, information, or details that we do learn from now until the time this case is brought to trial in a court of law(should it not be plead out before this point).. And that is simply that reasonable doubt that is being mentioned as still existing for people and that they cannot yet "convict" with the evidence that we have.. The fact is and will remain that there will be copious amounts of reasonable doubt that will continue to exist throughout the entirety of the case, investigation, and preparation for trial due to the fact that we have a mere modicum of the evidence available to us, the public.. This is an absolute necessity to protect the rights of all involved{including both Stephen McDaniel as well as justice for the victim, Lauren Giddings}

That was, and is my only point.. If anything I encourage as much and as many join in these discussions based on each of our individual opinions and the way we view the many aspects of any case.. Each bringing to the table their very own life experiences of that which mold our individual and unique opinions, views, and thoughts.. It is only through these type discussions when one can really learn and grow from life experiences and those life experiences of others whom should they choose to share here on this message board.. I, personally glean knowledge from those around me engaging in these discussions who openly share their knowledge, training, and experiences that I would have otherwise not known..Sometimes very little things..other times things imo that are of great importance in some specific vein of my life..

I am one of the mindset that I am always willing and wanting to learn, absorb new information, and discover other ways or angles of viewing things.. I believe that from EVERYONE, and I do literally mean EVERYONE there is always something to be learned.. So many are stuck in a mindset that they can only gain new or important knowledge from those atleast on the same level they feel themselves to be, or even that new or important knowledge gained only by those whose intelligence, training, education supercedes their own..

My mindset is totally opposite of this in that I truly believe and know that knowledge can be learned from ANYONE AND EVERYONE whom we cross paths with throughout life.. Some of the very most basic of moral values which help to shape who and what we are isn't derived from a damn thing in the world to do with education, training, nor anything money can buy.. IMO alot of that which is the most important in life, true life importance, not material, nor "education" based but rather those things rich in moral value.. Those meaningful type things we each, no matter what education level, we each have and are fully capable of sharing with one another with everyone coming away a better person, if even in some teeny way for having learned it and shared it..

***Just wanted to add that I definitely veered off topic with the last 2 paragraphs above..lol.. They are strictly some thoughts that just flowed out through my little fingertips hitting the keys and ending up on the computer screen..lol..and they are in no way directed at or about tomkat in any way whatsoever... Just wanted to clarify that about the last two paragraphs of my above post***

Destini said:

Not meaning to interrupt any discussions going on right now, but did anyone else catch this (near the bottom of this article)? Does this mean Boni Bush may have inadvertently put the torso in the trash? Was she cleaning out Apt. #1? She wouldn't have been taking out trash from any other apt., would she??

http://georgiaslate.com/blog/macon-news/hacksaw-linked-to-mcdaniel-in-giddings-case-warrant-says

Bush said she can remember throwing something in the trash can June 29, the day before Lauren Giddings’ torso was discovered, bundled in plastic, in the roll-away bin beside apartment No. 1.
Bush said she didn’t smell any foul odors.

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lol. Good question, I suppose. But, remember, that torso probably weighed at least 50 lbs.
I think she would have noticed

Destini said:

Not meaning to interrupt any discussions going on right now, but did anyone else catch this (near the bottom of this article)? Does this mean Boni Bush may have inadvertently put the torso in the trash? Was she cleaning out Apt. #1? She wouldn't have been taking out trash from any other apt., would she??

http://georgiaslate.com/blog/macon-news/hacksaw-linked-to-mcdaniel-in-giddings-case-warrant-says

Bush said she can remember throwing something in the trash can June 29, the day before Lauren Giddings’ torso was discovered, bundled in plastic, in the roll-away bin beside apartment No. 1.
Bush said she didn’t smell any foul odors.

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Any idea about how much Lauren's torso would have weighed?

Destini said:

Not meaning to interrupt any discussions going on right now, but did anyone else catch this (near the bottom of this article)? Does this mean Boni Bush may have inadvertently put the torso in the trash? Was she cleaning out Apt. #1? She wouldn't have been taking out trash from any other apt., would she??

http://georgiaslate.com/blog/macon-news/hacksaw-linked-to-mcdaniel-in-giddings-case-warrant-says

Bush said she can remember throwing something in the trash can June 29, the day before Lauren Giddings’ torso was discovered, bundled in plastic, in the roll-away bin beside apartment No. 1.
Bush said she didn’t smell any foul odors.

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I did a doubletake on that statement, too, then decided nah, she meant nothing in the trash can smelled unusually bad, meaning LG's torso was not in there at the time.

~SuperSleuth~ said:

lol. Good question, I suppose. But, remember, that torso probably weighed at least 50 lbs.
I think she would have noticed

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But isn't it odd she would even mention this if she didn't think it was possibly connected? The person in Apt. 1 was in the process of moving out and, if I remember right, had totally moved out by the time her torso was found, which probably means Boni would be starting to clean out that apartment.

It just hit me like a ton of bricks when I read it.

Backwoods said:

Maybe he did tell the police.

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According to GM, he told his lawyer.

“It was only later, when he started recovering from the shock that his friend was dead, that he started processing that and realized, ‘No. No one cuts the grass at midnight,’ ” she said.
“And at that point, (Stephen, in jail) contacted his lawyer and said, ‘I need to talk to you,’” Glenda McDaniel said.

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bessie said:

I did a doubletake on that statement, too, then decided nah, she meant nothing in the trashcan smelled unusually bad, meaning LG's torso was not in there at the time.

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But what if the "package" was in the refrigerator, which she possibly was cleaning out (?) and that's why there was no smell until the next morning.

They did take that refrigerator for some reason.

Oh, lordy, I feel sick.

~SuperSleuth~ said:

lol. Good question, I suppose. But, remember, that torso probably weighed at least 50 lbs.
I think she would have noticed

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Yes, that would be quite large, but maybe she thought someone had saved some deer meat or something. I don't know. I mean, who would ever think they were throwing away a body part when they were cleaning out a refrigerator or a freezer?

I don't recall this being addressed before, but I was gone for a few days last week & could have missed it.

These recent posts got me thinking about that refrigerator they took...

I don't want to bring up any unpleasant mental images, but I wanted to point out that
the reason the smell was detectable that day is because the decomposition was getting bad.
A refrigerator would not be able to cool something that large/thick (especially if not gutted)
to the point of stopping the chemical processes that would have been taking place.
I imagine the fridge didn't smell too good, nor the apartment.
He probably cleaned it rather well.
So, my guess is they may have taken it to see if by chance some air-borne fibers, etc.
may have gotten trapped within the air ducts within the fridge. :twocents:

Part 4
http://www.13wmaz.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=1103154364001

Finally... are they processing this on an old Tandy 486 or something???

~SuperSleuth~ said:

These recent posts got me thinking about that refrigerator they took...

I don't want to bring up any unpleasant mental images, but I wanted to point out that
the reason the smell was detectable that day is because the decomposition was getting bad.
A refrigerator would not be able to cool something that large/thick (especially if not gutted)
to the point of stopping the chemical processes that would have been taking place.
I imagine the fridge didn't smell too good, nor the apartment.
He probably cleaned it rather well.
So, my guess is they may have taken it to see if by chance some air-borne fibers, etc.
may have gotten trapped within the air ducts within the fridge. :twocents:

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Insects.

A qualified forensic entomologist can also make inferences as to possible postmortem movement of a corpse. Some flies prefer specific habitats such as a distinct preference for laying their eggs in an outdoor or indoor environment...
Similarly, freezing or wrapping of the body may be indicated by an altered species succession of insects on the body. Anything that may have prevented the insects from laying eggs in their normal time frame will alter both the sequence of species and their typical colonization time...

The complete absence of insects would suggest clues as to the sequence of postmortem events as the body was probably either frozen, sealed in a tightly closed container, or buried very deeply...

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http://www.forensicentomology.com/info.htm

Destini said:

But isn't it odd she would even mention this if she didn't think it was possibly connected? The person in Apt. 1 was in the process of moving out and, if I remember right, had totally moved out by the time her torso was found, which probably means Boni would be starting to clean out that apartment.

It just hit me like a ton of bricks when I read it.

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He wasn't totally moved out yet. He came back after and met BB for a final clean out.
She would have had no reason to do anything in that apt until this meeting, turning in his keys, etc.

As has apartment No. 1 a floor below, beneath where Giddings lived. That apartment’s refrigerator was hauled away by detectives on July 13, apparently bound for a forensic lab, and it will need to be replaced for a new resident, Bush said, because the one taken by police isn’t expected to be returned for six to nine months.

The last person who lived there, a law school classmate of Giddings and McDaniel from Dublin, had moved out by the time the refrigerator was taken. Bush said the resident had left and carried off most of his stuff before Giddings was killed.

But on the day he went back for a final clean out, he was so shaken by what may have transpired there that he asked Bush to stay with him while he picked up.

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/31/1649731/giddings-case-apartments-gradually.html

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The timeline of the MM moving out and moving completely out AND the landlady cleaning it or whatever has me thoroughly confused.