Identified! TN - Knoxville, BlkMale skeletal UP1581, 31-40, Jan'82 - Howard Hardin

masnitram · Aug 29, 2011

https://identifyus.org/cases/1581

Skeletal remains found near East Knox County. Gunshot wound to head.

Estimated age Adult
Minimum age 31 years
Maximum age 40 years
Race Black/African American
Ethnicity
Sex Male
Weight (pounds) , Cannot Estimate
Height (inches) 70, Estimated

Probable year of death 1981 to 1982
Estimated postmortem interval 8 Months

masnitram · Aug 29, 2011

Comparison to Joe Hill https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/10633/

Estimated Height is good, Age:29 is close enough imho, and the time line is good as well. The Michigan to Tennessee connection is unknown. Joe has a DNA sample submitted but not yet available. CODIS should have this figured out automatically soon thankfully. Thoughts?

webrocket · Aug 29, 2011

don't know Masnitram. the circumstances of the disappearance of Hill suggest somewthing happened to him in or around Detroit.

per his "circumstances" -

Missing since 09/01/1981 from Detroit. Possible foul play. vehicle last seen in was the Grey/silver Pontiac TransAm. Vehicle recovered by Clinton Township PD (#81-9-13306) on 09/09/1981 with wheels and t-top cover missing.

Clinton Twp is northeast of Detroit.

does not sound like a voluntary disappearance to me and taking a person or body from MI to TN just to shoot him, seems unlikely to me.

masnitram · Aug 29, 2011

webrocket said:
don't know Masnitram. the circumstances of the disappearance of Hill suggest somewthing happened to him in or around Detroit.

per his "circumstances" -

Missing since 09/01/1981 from Detroit. Possible foul play. vehicle last seen in was the Grey/silver Pontiac TransAm. Vehicle recovered by Clinton Township PD (#81-9-13306) on 09/09/1981 with wheels and t-top cover missing.

Clinton Twp is northeast of Detroit.

does not sound like a voluntary disappearance to me and taking a person or body from MI to TN just to shoot him, seems unlikely to me.

All valid points...which is what I like about you Webrocket. I hang onto the "anything is possible" adage...at least CODIS should figure this one out for us in the near future.

* the more I look at the recon/photo the more I see a discrepancy in the jawline. Joe's looks narrower...

AuburnSkye · May 10, 2012

Knox County investigators have released an age regression photo. Here's a link: http://www.wate.com/story/18246168/knox-cold-cases

pearly · Jul 15, 2012

Hi All,

I have been working on a UID female in Knox County and the cold case investigator has asked my thoughts on this John Doe, have looked for a thread and cannot seem to find one.

Here is his Namus and Doe Network links:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1194umtn.html

&

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/1581

In essence I think the cold case team are looking for a fresh perspective on this one so all potential matches are very much welcomed.

Thanks

P

Nikon · Jul 15, 2012

With the anomaly on the face, it should have provided a ID quickly. I'm guessing he wasn't the type that stuck out.

Does the teeth tell a sign of some sort of disease or a drug user? I think the UID may have abused amphetamines that resulted in him grinding his teeth.

PaulaH · Jul 15, 2012

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/7898/67/

William Hamilton from Kentucky.

Upper end of age range. Had a blue zip up jacket. Height at 72 inches, estimate.

Marilynilpa · Jul 15, 2012

His NamUs entry says his body was partially covered by logs and brush. It's surprising he was found at all in such a wooded area.

I assume you've checked NamUs for UIDs?

Nikon · Jul 15, 2012

PaulaH said:
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/7898/67/

William Hamilton from Kentucky.

Upper end of age range. Had a blue zip up jacket. Height at 72 inches, estimate.

Hamilton walked with a limp. This should show up in the unsub's bones, no?

Both cases have DNA samples, so I'd submit this possibility. The unsub's case does not show Hamilton as a rule-out.

pearly · Jul 15, 2012

Nikon said:
With the anomaly on the face, it should have provided a ID quickly. I'm guessing he wasn't the type that stuck out.

Does the teeth tell a sign of some sort of disease or a drug user? I think the UID may have abused amphetamines that resulted in him grinding his teeth.

Hi Nikon,

I can ask the investigator and get back to you regarding these questions

thank you for you help!

Also

Marilynilpa I will also follow up with the investigator on your query

Thank you for your help everyone. I will be trawling through missing persons today and will post any other potentials.

P

ualaw99 · Jul 15, 2012

Charles Stanley

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/stanley_charles.html

Likely a longshot but height and age range matches up. He was also supposedly traveling when he disappeared.

Bullet lodged in brain but no idea where/how it entered.

pearly · Jul 15, 2012

ualaw99 said:
Charles Stanley

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/stanley_charles.html

Likely a longshot but height and age range matches up. He was also supposedly traveling when he disappeared.

Bullet lodged in brain but no idea where/how it entered.

I am going through possibles and have listed Charles as a possible too!

CarlK90245 · Jul 15, 2012

ualaw99 said:
Charles Stanley

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/stanley_charles.html

Likely a longshot but height and age range matches up. He was also supposedly traveling when he disappeared.

Bullet lodged in brain but no idea where/how it entered.

IMO, there's a zero probability that the anthropologists would have missed the bullet lodged in the brain, and the healed bullet hole in the skull.

ualaw99 · Jul 16, 2012

CarlK90245 said:
IMO, there's a zero probability that the anthropologists would have missed the bullet lodged in the brain, and the healed bullet hole in the skull.

I thought same thing but I think NAMUS mentions a healed fracture in the cheek bone which made me think maybe chance the bullet entered/damaged his face.

As far as accounting for the bullet, you are very likely right.

ualaw99 · Jul 16, 2012

ualaw99 said:
I thought same thing but I think NAMUS mentions a healed fracture in the cheek bone which made me think maybe chance the bullet entered/damaged his face.

As far as accounting for the bullet, you are very likely right.

"May have had a visible depression in front of left ear due to fracture of left cheekbone."

"-Healed fracture of Left Zygomatic arch (cheekbone) "

I would guess a bullet entry there would have a splintering effect more so than a fracture that would heal cleanly anyway but I have no idea.

ualaw99 · Jul 16, 2012

pearly said:
I am going through possibles and have listed Charles as a possible too!

Charles likely only a possibility if the unsub's bullet wound wasn't the cause of death and was actually an old wound which would be a bit wild.

Location where they found the remains isn't the most accessible area of Knoxville. It gets fairly rural very quickly due east of town.

Donjeta · Jul 16, 2012

CarlK90245 said:
IMO, there's a zero probability that the anthropologists would have missed the bullet lodged in the brain, and the healed bullet hole in the skull.

Well, if it's Charles Stanley they in fact didn't miss the bullet hole and the bullet since the Namus entry says
"-Gunshot wound behind left ear, bullet was recovered"

CarlK90245 · Jul 16, 2012

Donjeta said:
CarlK90245 said:

IMO, there's a zero probability that the anthropologists would have missed the bullet lodged in the brain, and the healed bullet hole in the skull.

Click to expand...

Well, if it's Charles Stanley they in fact didn't miss the bullet hole and the bullet since the Namus entry says
"-Gunshot wound behind left ear, bullet was recovered"

Oops, I missed that. The UID apparently died of a gunshot wound. But then I would think that they would know whether it was a fresh wound or whether there were of healingl.

ualaw99 · Jul 16, 2012

CarlK90245 said:
Oops, I missed that. The UID apparently died of a gunshot wound. But then I would think that they would know whether it was a fresh wound or whether there were of healingl.

It would be interesting to know the specifics of Charles' injury.

Pearly - could you ask your contact any more specifics on the unsub's skull injuries?

Identified! TN - Knoxville, BlkMale skeletal UP1581, 31-40, Jan'82 - Howard Hardin

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