NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #11

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seI still think the end of the road for these victims was meeting a serial killer, and not a hitman or run of the mill trafficker. [...] I think we are dealing with an aging serial killer and if any trafficking is involved its because he is playing the role of a customer.
While gangs are moving toward sex trafficking as an enterprise, such as the recent SD sex ring bust ( link ), and while there are earmarks of trafficking in the case of the GB4 + Shannan Gilbert ( link & link ), I do not think their deaths/disappearance is a result of trafficking, per se. You know, hitman, cleaner, that sort of thing. I do however think trafficking played a role in their deaths, in that it brought them within the reach of their killer, as one of their clients, or an outlier they met at a sex party. It's a different strokes for different folks, sort of thing. And in this case, and imho, those who hire sex through traffickers differ, psychologically, from those who hire street walkers, etc.
 
Ok Peter if we are wrong in our profile please explain to me an alternative?
Points to consider-
LE including FBI have stated they believe it is an older white male, probable Long Island resident.
All women went missing during or shortly after their last job.
Points to the killer being a client or prior client.
Otherwise how would the killer have known the intimate details of Melissa's life (sister's background, Melissa and her boyfriend's sexual relationship and boyfriend's tattoos, and also details of other victims), which he then used to taunt their families??

1.) LE including FBI have also profiled an older white male in the Flint-Stabber case, in the Grim Sleeper case and the Sowell case in Ohio. Two black, one brown and in fact, one could be really considered "older". But of course, if my job would be to catch a serial killer and I have a good idea who and what he is, I will tell this always to the media to warn him off.

2.) As you point out so correct, all women wnet missing AFTER their last job. We know in one case, Maureen Brainard-Barnes, that is was so AFTER, that she even had time to return to NYC to the bus terminal. And there is not even any proof, she was in LI at all.

3.) Imagine for a moment, you are a SK with an at least average ability in using cell phones. Then you find in your victim's cell phone the number od "sis" ... and the rest is easy to bring out, if you have some time with the victim.

The interesting point in these cases (and in my opinion, we talk at least two cases here) is the victimology. Escorts or prostitutes say nothing in this case. Every second SK goes for prostitutes and in the last years also with increasing tendency for internet/Craigslist escorts. But the basic prerequisite of a high risk life style makes them frequently victims. Only, if you compare to other cases (Hansen, Albright, Ridgway, ...) you will find, the usual prostitute killing sexual sadist/anger assault type usually IS the last John. We can exclude that here, Maureen Brainard would have made it to the bus terminal, if we would deal with that kind of perpetrator.
So, as I suggested earlier, take a look at the victims. What do they have in common aside of the obvious being escorts? Megan Waterman offered bdsm services, which brings her in an entirely different kind of customer circle as the three other GB4. So we know already, we don't deal with one John because one John would have one set of preferences. We also know, we don't deal with a sexual sadist with a taste for change (like for example Albright). Otherwise, we wouldn't have four GB4 with the same ethnicity. That leaves us with either a narcissist if he would see something of himself in them (which is highly unlikely in this case because the visual appearance of the victims is so different) or it leaves us with the category of mission-driven offenders (like for example Billy Glaze). So, no what kind of mission could be a SK whi kills exclusively white prostitutes? Keep in mind, the victims were, as far as I know, found nude. Or at least no remains of clothes were found. Forum rules prevent me from speaking it out plainly, but if you look up Billy Glaze or my website, you can find a possible answer for that question.
What else do we know about the murderer of the GB4? He killed once a year with the exception of 2008. There is no diminishing cool down phase. That tells us, he is probably killing also in other places (which would make him non-local) and only in the summer time in the area at all. But a constant cool down phase of a year and then miss a year is a warning sign. Because it means, you are not dealing with psychopath 101. You can compare the kills/year of other SKs and you will see, how rare this timing is (this doesn't mean, he isn't psychopath in a secondary diagnosis, but it isn't the main reason, he is on the prowl).
There is another thing, the phone calls tell us. He had time with his victim. Probably more than 24 hours to get all the details out. Which indicates, he has a kill site with the necessary privacy. Put that together with burlap wrap and you get someone, who works in a crafting or construction profession, or, that was here mentioned earlier, has to do with farm work in some way.
What else? Oh, yes, the dump site. I stuck on that a while. The dropping of the GB4 is unpersonal and unceremonious. Normally, I would interpret this as fully achieved objectization of the victims. But the phone calls, especially the few hints in which he ranted about the victims life style and the fact, that he also called the pimp/bf makes me wonder. This has more of a justification and a transfer of guilt. Under that light, I am not sure, whether he is really so emotionally distanced from his victims. But then, the unceremoniously dropping of bodies contradicts the care in which he built his collection (almost as if he measured this stripe of the beach out). So putting this together, he is likely a re-visitor or at least was it, before he read in the papers, his collection was transported away. However, if I am right here, he would be very nervous when he drove out to drop a body. This would give LE a chance to look at old traffic camera recordings, wouldn't it?
Okay, that was long enough for now. Food for thoughts.
 
While gangs are moving toward sex trafficking as an enterprise, such as the recent SD sex ring bust ( link ), and while there are earmarks of trafficking in the case of the GB4 + Shannan Gilbert ( link & link ), I do not think their deaths/disappearance is a result of trafficking, per se. You know, hitman, cleaner, that sort of thing. I do however think trafficking played a role in their deaths, in that it brought them within the reach of their killer, as one of their clients, or an outlier they met at a sex party. It's a different strokes for different folks, sort of thing. And in this case, and imho, those who hire sex through traffickers differ, psychologically, from those who hire street walkers, etc.

And here, you give me food for thoughts. The keyword is parties. But Waterman, according to the services, she offered, would have gone/sent to to another kind of party than the other three of the GB4. So, where would be the crossing between those layers of the same world? Because I still think along the stalker line and that means, there is somewhere a place/area where he saw all of them in the first place. I would assume, this party scene would have some degree of overlapping when it comes to the girls, but not so much when it comes to the clients/visitors of clubs and parties.
 
The keyword is parties. But Waterman, according to the services, she offered, would have gone/sent to to another kind of party than the other three of the GB4. So, where would be the crossing between those layers of the same world? Because I still think along the stalker line and that means, there is somewhere a place/area where he saw all of them in the first place.
I think he is someone who encountered them... somewhere. Though, I'm not convinced he engaged in protracted stalking, either. That would take a lot of work considering their disparate locations. Then again, the time between the murders is significant.... Nonetheless, within this context, there are a couple of scenarios I've considered.

Rent-a-Cop

The rent-a-cop (or possibly a real officer, less likely) patrols the area, seeing his victims leave a venue, house, that is well known for prostitution and/or sex parties, and picking them up. It would be fairly easy to grab them. In this scenario, Shannan's case would be with the GB4, and all four of the girls would, at one time or the other, have serviced a john and/or attended a sex party in Oak Beach.

The rent-a-cop is part of the community and as such would command some degree of respect among his peers. He's really more of a volunteer, than a rent-a-cop. That is, he doesn't actually get paid for patrolling the area. However, the community feels safer bc he's watching over them. And this in turn appeals to his ego of... well, sorta playing god.

The rent-a-cop is a cause stalker. He sees these women as "filth" and wants to "clean up the neighborhood" so to speak. It's his duty. He calls the families because he wants to let them know just how evil he thinks their loved one is. In other words, his motivations for calling is not about sadism, rather, he is compelled... he's driven, to call... out of some sort of imagined self-righteous crusade.​

Outlier

The outlier frequents the sex scene where he identifies and cases his marks. This sort would also follow his victims after the party, at which point he abducts them. The biggest problem with this scenario is, how does he get them to come with them? While he could use a cop ruse, I'm envisioning more of a blitz attack. Imo, that sort of thing would fit more with his psyche... the overpowering bit.

The outlier is pretty much non-descript. In other words, those in the scene rarely realize he exists. One might even characterize him as a chameleon but he's not that either. If the killer turns out to be the outlier, people in the scene will remember him after the fact. Outliers don't truly fit in the scene. They aren't really part of it. They're just there bc they have a better chance at going undetected. Importantly, the outlier is a sexual sadist and they regularly engage in illegal and often sexually violent criminal behavior. Hence, their choice for the scene for their cover.

In this scenario, and in the context of this case, the guy will try to keep his victims alive for a protracted period. Importantly, murder may not be his end goal. They could have succumbed to whatever torture he visited upon them. That, or, if/when he grew bored, he murdered them and disposed of their bodies. Since all four of the GB4 died from homicidal asphyxiation, specifically, strangulation, and since it appears a garrote was used ( link ), it is possible this guy is into breath play ( link ) and that they eventually died as a result of that. His motive for calling the families is to prolong the charge he got out of torturing and murdering the girls, by visiting pain upon their families. As with the rent-a-cop, the outlier views them as less than human. But again, his underlying motive differs.​
The aforementioned are only two of the many scenarios I've considered. One reason I'm thinking outlier is due to the lack of connection between the girls as well as their geographical disparity. That is, they hailed from various places, and while they used craigslist and other online venues for advertising their services, there is no indication they all visited the same john. Nor is there any indication that they all had serviced someone in oak beach at one point or the other. This leads me to believe we're looking at someone in the "scene" as opposed to a rent-a-cop. Of course, another reason I could be focused upon the outlier scenario is bc I researched outliers in the scene when studying for my forensic psych masters. And you know how that works... everything looks like a nail to a carpenter.
 
I think he is someone who encountered them... somewhere. Though, I'm not convinced he engaged in protracted stalking, either. That would take a lot of work considering their disparate locations. Then again, the time between the murders is significant.... Nonetheless, within this context, there are a couple of scenarios I've considered.

Rent-a-Cop

The rent-a-cop (or possibly a real officer, less likely) patrols the area, seeing his victims leave a venue, house, that is well known for prostitution and/or sex parties, and picking them up. It would be fairly easy to grab them. In this scenario, Shannan's case would be with the GB4, and all four of the girls would, at one time or the other, have serviced a john and/or attended a sex party in Oak Beach.

The rent-a-cop is part of the community and as such would command some degree of respect among his peers. He's really more of a volunteer, than a rent-a-cop. That is, he doesn't actually get paid for patrolling the area. However, the community feels safer bc he's watching over them. And this in turn appeals to his ego of... well, sorta playing god.

The rent-a-cop is a cause stalker. He sees these women as "filth" and wants to "clean up the neighborhood" so to speak. It's his duty. He calls the families because he wants to let them know just how evil he thinks their loved one is. In other words, his motivations for calling is not about sadism, rather, he is compelled... he's driven, to call... out of some sort of imagined self-righteous crusade.​

Outlier

The outlier frequents the sex scene where he identifies and cases his marks. This sort would also follow his victims after the party, at which point he abducts them. The biggest problem with this scenario is, how does he get them to come with them? While he could use a cop ruse, I'm envisioning more of a blitz attack. Imo, that sort of thing would fit more with his psyche... the overpowering bit.

The outlier is pretty much non-descript. In other words, those in the scene rarely realize he exists. One might even characterize him as a chameleon but he's not that either. If the killer turns out to be the outlier, people in the scene will remember him after the fact. Outliers don't truly fit in the scene. They aren't really part of it. They're just there bc they have a better chance at going undetected. Importantly, the outlier is a sexual sadist and they regularly engage in illegal and often sexually violent criminal behavior. Hence, their choice for the scene for their cover.

In this scenario, and in the context of this case, the guy will try to keep his victims alive for a protracted period. Importantly, murder may not be his end goal. They could have succumbed to whatever torture he visited upon them. That, or, if/when he grew bored, he murdered them and disposed of their bodies. Since all four of the GB4 died from homicidal asphyxiation, specifically, strangulation, and since it appears a garrote was used ( link ), it is possible this guy is into breath play ( link ) and that they eventually died as a result of that. His motive for calling the families is to prolong the charge he got out of torturing and murdering the girls, by visiting pain upon their families. As with the rent-a-cop, the outlier views them as less than human. But again, his underlying motive differs.​
The aforementioned are only two of the many scenarios I've considered. One reason I'm thinking outlier is due to the lack of connection between the girls as well as their geographical disparity. That is, they hailed from various places, and while they used craigslist and other online venues for advertising their services, there is no indication they all visited the same john. Nor is there any indication that they all had serviced someone in oak beach at one point or the other. This leads me to believe we're looking at someone in the "scene" as opposed to a rent-a-cop. Of course, another reason I could be focused upon the outlier scenario is bc I researched outliers in the scene when studying for my forensic psych masters. And you know how that works... everything looks like a nail to a carpenter.

Here's a thought I just had. Say he is one of those rent-a-cop types. Could he have gotten the info on SG running from JB's place on a police scanner and gone and picked her up himself? Perhaps his intention was to pose as a cop? IF it's true that Shannon could be heard mentioning the name "Mike" on the phone, perhaps it was in error? Maybe she thought it was Mike driving up in his truck, but it was really the SK?
 
I think he is someone who encountered them... somewhere. Though, I'm not convinced he engaged in protracted stalking, either. That would take a lot of work considering their disparate locations. Then again, the time between the murders is significant.... Nonetheless, within this context, there are a couple of scenarios I've considered.

Rent-a-Cop

The rent-a-cop (or possibly a real officer, less likely) patrols the area, seeing his victims leave a venue, house, that is well known for prostitution and/or sex parties, and picking them up. It would be fairly easy to grab them. In this scenario, Shannan's case would be with the GB4, and all four of the girls would, at one time or the other, have serviced a john and/or attended a sex party in Oak Beach.

The rent-a-cop is part of the community and as such would command some degree of respect among his peers. He's really more of a volunteer, than a rent-a-cop. That is, he doesn't actually get paid for patrolling the area. However, the community feels safer bc he's watching over them. And this in turn appeals to his ego of... well, sorta playing god.

The rent-a-cop is a cause stalker. He sees these women as "filth" and wants to "clean up the neighborhood" so to speak. It's his duty. He calls the families because he wants to let them know just how evil he thinks their loved one is. In other words, his motivations for calling is not about sadism, rather, he is compelled... he's driven, to call... out of some sort of imagined self-righteous crusade.​

Outlier

The outlier frequents the sex scene where he identifies and cases his marks. This sort would also follow his victims after the party, at which point he abducts them. The biggest problem with this scenario is, how does he get them to come with them? While he could use a cop ruse, I'm envisioning more of a blitz attack. Imo, that sort of thing would fit more with his psyche... the overpowering bit.

The outlier is pretty much non-descript. In other words, those in the scene rarely realize he exists. One might even characterize him as a chameleon but he's not that either. If the killer turns out to be the outlier, people in the scene will remember him after the fact. Outliers don't truly fit in the scene. They aren't really part of it. They're just there bc they have a better chance at going undetected. Importantly, the outlier is a sexual sadist and they regularly engage in illegal and often sexually violent criminal behavior. Hence, their choice for the scene for their cover.

In this scenario, and in the context of this case, the guy will try to keep his victims alive for a protracted period. Importantly, murder may not be his end goal. They could have succumbed to whatever torture he visited upon them. That, or, if/when he grew bored, he murdered them and disposed of their bodies. Since all four of the GB4 died from homicidal asphyxiation, specifically, strangulation, and since it appears a garrote was used ( link ), it is possible this guy is into breath play ( link ) and that they eventually died as a result of that. His motive for calling the families is to prolong the charge he got out of torturing and murdering the girls, by visiting pain upon their families. As with the rent-a-cop, the outlier views them as less than human. But again, his underlying motive differs.​
The aforementioned are only two of the many scenarios I've considered. One reason I'm thinking outlier is due to the lack of connection between the girls as well as their geographical disparity. That is, they hailed from various places, and while they used craigslist and other online venues for advertising their services, there is no indication they all visited the same john. Nor is there any indication that they all had serviced someone in oak beach at one point or the other. This leads me to believe we're looking at someone in the "scene" as opposed to a rent-a-cop. Of course, another reason I could be focused upon the outlier scenario is bc I researched outliers in the scene when studying for my forensic psych masters. And you know how that works... everything looks like a nail to a carpenter.

I don't see, how "rent-a-cop" or "outlier" would be incompatible with a fully blown stalker. The point, that makes me think about a stalker is, that Maureen Brainard-Barnes had obviously meetings with clients in that hotel in 46th Street. So to figure out when she would be out in the open, the perp had to know where she was and would have followed her to this bus terminal at the Port Authority (not that long of a way), but unless he had access to her schedule, he would have to wait there till she leaves. So waiting for someone to come out of a hotel is pretty near to stalking. Same thing with Megan Waterman. Basically, she and her pimp traveled bimonthly to Hauppauge while they spent the rest of the time in NYC. She just wandered off to meet someone, but LE checked every Craigslist contact. So there is a good chance, someone was waiting for her that night and she didn't appear because someone snatched her. Someone, who knew, she was at that time at that hotel. So probably someone just waiting outside. Can be, the stalker missed her client only by a few moments, he was earlier.
From a behavioral point of view, the "rent-a-cop" is in the family of "house cleaners". That makes him local all the year round. But the murders occurred all in summer only. Why would a "rent-a-cop" be there only for a part of the year?
For that reason, I like the "outlier" better. He isn't technically bound to parties in Oak Beach nor to parties in the NYC area, he can appear virtually everywhere on sex parties. The real point is, the "outlier" is not necessarily local, his selection scheme doesn't depend on a community, he thinks, he has to clean. And right, asphyxiation with a ligature can indicate a sadist and breath play. Which to a degree brings us nearer again to Megan Waterman's services in a way.
Here is my problem: If we take the base of comparison a bit wider and include also serial-rapists as examples, we find some twisted variants of outliers also as anger-assault or domination rapists. Since those are the two kinds that develop the easiest into fully blown SKs, it's worth to consider a similar scenario. A sadistic outlier would select his victims by visual traits. The victims would have something more in common than just being there and female. Similar hair colors, eye colors, size or face shape. Something. But from the field of dominance rapists, we know outlier types hunting rather for a category fitting the population group, he feels upset with and wants to gain domination over it. Races, social status, even motherhood had been such a category in a case in Europe if I remember right. This makes them, after they develop into SKs, looking a lot like a crossbreed between mission-driven and sadistic-psychopath. And those are often stalkers.
To be honest, I don't come over the victimology of the GB4. Visual traits minor behavioral traits are the only base, the usual sadistic snatcher has, to make his choice. And those girls have not much in common beyond their profession.
And yes, the ruse approach/blitz-attack part would fit the bill anyway. It doesn't need to be a specially elaborate ruse. Having a cold cigarette and ask, while approaching for fire would do the job. Or something like, "eh lady, do you know where XXXX is here around?". The ruse needs only good enough to come into strike distance without causing a defensive reaction. Maureen was last heard from at a bus terminal at night, Megan was out in the dark, all not situations, the attacker has to care about eye witnesses, more about ear-witnesses.
And also yes to the prolonged time he keeps them. He tortures them and he presses details of their life out of them (remember the phone calls). It's kind of a behavioral pattern of dominance driven offenders. Knowledge about their victim's life gives them a stronger sense of having power over their lives.
However, there is an open question: If the phone calls were to prolong the torture, I can understand, why he called the family. One can torture people who loved the victim that way. But why the pimp? That would only make sense, if the pimp wasn't a pimp but really a boyfriend who loved the victim or if the killer could at least assume that. What is your opinion about that detail?
 
I have my own super weird reasons for coming up with the profile I have in my mind.

but...

I think this guy is in his mid fifties.

he is..

tall, fit and athletic

he may have extra curricular activities such as coaching sports that bring him into the area.

he is funny and has his own money and bussiness.

he has no trouble meeting girls and knows a ton of people.

he has more than one vehicle

he has been pursuing women in and out of his state since the late seventies, and likes to
maintain a supposed real relationship with a live in girlfriend for stability.

he has been married but only briefly

he has been involved in underground bsdm activities and clubs since his late 20's.

he does not live in Oak Beach but elsewhere where he owns property.

he only began using prostitutes when his urges became uncontrollable.

he is not satisfied with normal sex and wants to dominate and frighten women.

he comes from a normal middle class suburban family.

he treats women well and is not a violent domestic partner, but is cold and foreboding.

he is sexually demanding and wants submission.

he has an extra apartment or space away from home or business.

he has no children

he is well loved.

he may be bi sexual and has a close friend who knows his secrets.

he likes to secretly film and photograph his encounters .

he only turned to Craigslist when he ran out of ways to remain anonyomous or find good victims that would not be missed.

there are girls out there right now...who wonder if this guy could be a killer, due to the weird sexual experiences they have had with this man.

He enjoys an unsuspecting woman who will be shocked when she is spanked, bound, or asked to wear unusual clothing that he has on hand.

he has told other women about his fantasies or frightening thoughts.

women who are with him for a long period don't realize he is controlling himself when he is with them.
 
Here's a thought I just had. Say he is one of those rent-a-cop types. Could he have gotten the info on SG running from JB's place on a police scanner and gone and picked her up himself? Perhaps his intention was to pose as a cop? IF it's true that Shannon could be heard mentioning the name "Mike" on the phone, perhaps it was in error? Maybe she thought it was Mike driving up in his truck, but it was really the SK?

I debated that myself (I think outloud on this board). headlights at night look the same, possibly the real perp was trying to run her over or clip her with his truck and she assumed the truck was mike's. But if mike wasn't the real perp, what made her believe "everyone" or "they" were trying to kill her while she was still inside the house.

How does one scare someone so bad they think the person is really going to kill them, without actually causing physical harm? It seems that she was not actually physically hurt in any serious way, yet was scared for her life...

I can't help but think the SK wanted to play the same game with SG that he played on the phone with the sisters, he gets off on frightening vulnerable girls ... possibly over the phone on May 1 too. Did someone that night get SG's number and start playing his usual phone games, giving her messages, pretending to be other people etc. We know he is a an experienced manipulator...

I wish her phone records had txting info
 
I think it becomes more complicated then it actually is.

I think SG was paranoid and intoxicated...I think she ran into our guy on the way out of the beach...I think she called the police when someone who saw her out there trying to get away from Pak, they began to pursue her...so

she didn't want to do extra tricks to pay Pak and she would have been willing to spend the night in jail rather than face him...I believe she was out there running around and a second more agressive person was also trying to intercept her off the road.
 
When I look at a map, i get a strong feeling that this guy is from White Plains.
 
Production Packaging Equipment, Inc.
1030 Grand Boulevard
Deer Park, NY 11729

they make burlap sacks...map it.

or distribute...not sure.
 
I've only recently come to this opinion but I think the killer of the GB4 is the same killer who dismembered Taylor & Jane Doe. IMO the killer is definitely an older man. I think back in 2000 he probably owned property closer to the Manorville disposal site - possibly with an "out building" or detached garage where he could do his dirty work. He may have held onto the remaining pieces of the Manorville victims til he moved to or bought property at Oak Beach. I think now he no longer has a place to dismember them, he's older, and he's gotten lazier, so he just dumps them off the side of the road minus any evidence. I think he's probably wealthy and plies these girls with gifts in addition to the $$$...perhaps jewelry or clothes, or perhaps he has cocaine for them. I think he has a strong connection to Manhattan...his business is likely there. I think he's a sex addict, only the sex isn't enough to satisfy him any more...he thoroughly enjoys the kill. He thinks he's smart/attractive/sexy and probably looks younger than his years. I don't think he's married.

just my 2cents
 
I've only recently come to this opinion but I think the killer of the GB4 is the same killer who dismembered Taylor & Jane Doe. IMO the killer is definitely an older man. I think back in 2000 he probably owned property closer to the Manorville disposal site - possibly with an "out building" or detached garage where he could do his dirty work. He may have held onto the remaining pieces of the Manorville victims til he moved to or bought property at Oak Beach. I think now he no longer has a place to dismember them, he's older, and he's gotten lazier, so he just dumps them off the side of the road minus any evidence. I think he's probably wealthy and plies these girls with gifts in addition to the $$$...perhaps jewelry or clothes, or perhaps he has cocaine for them. I think he has a strong connection to Manhattan...his business is likely there. I think he's a sex addict, only the sex isn't enough to satisfy him any more...he thoroughly enjoys the kill. He thinks he's smart/attractive/sexy and probably looks younger than his years. I don't think he's married.

just my 2cents


Yep! This is the guy! The only thing is that I think he is married with young adult children.
 
I've only recently come to this opinion but I think the killer of the GB4 is the same killer who dismembered Taylor & Jane Doe. IMO the killer is definitely an older man. I think back in 2000 he probably owned property closer to the Manorville disposal site - possibly with an "out building" or detached garage where he could do his dirty work. He may have held onto the remaining pieces of the Manorville victims til he moved to or bought property at Oak Beach. I think now he no longer has a place to dismember them, he's older, and he's gotten lazier, so he just dumps them off the side of the road minus any evidence. I think he's probably wealthy and plies these girls with gifts in addition to the $$$...perhaps jewelry or clothes, or perhaps he has cocaine for them. I think he has a strong connection to Manhattan...his business is likely there. I think he's a sex addict, only the sex isn't enough to satisfy him any more...he thoroughly enjoys the kill. He thinks he's smart/attractive/sexy and probably looks younger than his years. I don't think he's married.

just my 2cents

Only, if he has money, he can get a private place any time and it is obviously not, that he runs out of the physical strength to dismember his victims. Carrying a dead body in the bushes of Gilgo Beach calls for some strength and he did that.
 
I debated that myself (I think outloud on this board). headlights at night look the same, possibly the real perp was trying to run her over or clip her with his truck and she assumed the truck was mike's. But if mike wasn't the real perp, what made her believe "everyone" or "they" were trying to kill her while she was still inside the house.

How does one scare someone so bad they think the person is really going to kill them, without actually causing physical harm? It seems that she was not actually physically hurt in any serious way, yet was scared for her life...

I can't help but think the SK wanted to play the same game with SG that he played on the phone with the sisters, he gets off on frightening vulnerable girls ... possibly over the phone on May 1 too. Did someone that night get SG's number and start playing his usual phone games, giving her messages, pretending to be other people etc. We know he is a an experienced manipulator...

I wish her phone records had txting info

I think more and more, SG isn't connected to the GB4 at all. Maybe to the dismemberer, but not to the GB4.
We can be pretty sure, she was intoxicated, the description of her behavior that night from Coletti points pretty clearly in that direction. And we can also assume, they partied not with her stash (she had no reason to bring it in the first place unless, she would have been Brewer's supplier and there is no hint for that in her history) byt Brewer's. Now, there are different qualities, most pills are mixed somewhere together in some backyard kitchens and the production quality is far from homogenous or high. So, if she got a bad trip, this can cause extreme paranoia. So it wouldn't be a miracle what scared her that much without causing bodily harm.
We know, she left the house, because Coletti saw her. That leaves us with Pak, who followed her on foot in the darkness in the reeds. The point, I don't get is, why thinks everybody, he found her in the first place. He is kind of a city person, not a jungle hunter or something and there are down to the beach a thousand possibilities to hide. Right now, we don't even know whether SG was murdered. By all we know, she could have one of the bad ideas drugged people sometimes have, and swam out into the sea.
 
Carrying a dead body in the bushes of Gilgo Beach calls for some strength and he did that.

At this point it has been clearly established (through police statements and viewing the location of the dumped remains on video & photo) that the intact bodies were dumped out of a vehicle (not carried into the brush) and the smaller body parts were within throwing distance from the road. Also, the varying stages of decay indicate that the SK held on to some or all of the bodies for a considerable amount of time after they were killed (possibly indicating that he made all of the dumps within a very short time frame).
 
At this point it has been clearly established (through police statements and viewing the location of the dumped remains on video & photo) that the intact bodies were dumped out of a vehicle (not carried into the brush) and the smaller body parts were within throwing distance from the road. Also, the varying stages of decay indicate that the SK held on to some or all of the bodies for a considerable amount of time after they were killed (possibly indicating that he made all of the dumps within a very short time frame).

At this point, it has been clearly established, that I talked about the GB4 not the dismembered bodies. And for the GB4, given the photos we saw in the media, it can't be established that they were thrown from a vehicle. Unless the vehicle would have been driven in the bushes first. The parts that had been rolled from a vehicle were the ones near the cause way. Good Morning, Seaslug!
 
I think more and more, SG isn't connected to the GB4 at all. Maybe to the dismemberer, but not to the GB4.
We can be pretty sure, she was intoxicated, the description of her behavior that night from Coletti points pretty clearly in that direction. And we can also assume, they partied not with her stash (she had no reason to bring it in the first place unless, she would have been Brewer's supplier and there is no hint for that in her history) byt Brewer's. Now, there are different qualities, most pills are mixed somewhere together in some backyard kitchens and the production quality is far from homogenous or high. So, if she got a bad trip, this can cause extreme paranoia. So it wouldn't be a miracle what scared her that much without causing bodily harm.
We know, she left the house, because Coletti saw her. That leaves us with Pak, who followed her on foot in the darkness in the reeds. The point, I don't get is, why thinks everybody, he found her in the first place. He is kind of a city person, not a jungle hunter or something and there are down to the beach a thousand possibilities to hide. Right now, we don't even know whether SG was murdered. By all we know, she could have one of the bad ideas drugged people sometimes have, and swam out into the sea.

Agreed. My suspicion is that SG had a psychotic break brought on by drug abuse and a manic episode. I think that IF she was killed, it was by somebody trying to get her to quiet down who ended up being overly aggressive and might have panicked.

Though there could be an explanation for this, I think that it's notable that her body was not found on Gilgo Beach with the others.

Bottom line, if JB had wanted to kill a prostitute, he wouldn't have hired one who had a driver waiting outside.

Why the doc called SG's mother is kind of hard to figure, but perhaps he was drunk? That's a whole other matter entirely.
 
Agreed. My suspicion is that SG had a psychotic break brought on by drug abuse and a manic episode. I think that IF she was killed, it was by somebody trying to get her to quiet down who ended up being overly aggressive and might have panicked.

Though there could be an explanation for this, I think that it's notable that her body was not found on Gilgo Beach with the others.

Bottom line, if JB had wanted to kill a prostitute, he wouldn't have hired one who had a driver waiting outside.

Why the doc called SG's mother is kind of hard to figure, but perhaps he was drunk? That's a whole other matter entirely.

My suspicion is, that Brewer threw a party with his stash. There was also this drifter in the house. However, when SG went all nutz on her bad trip, Brewer panicked and I would assume, he also talked to the driver outside after SG ran out because it was Pak who was seen by Coletti. So, what did Brewer? Probably what any 99% normal person would do, call the next doctor he knew and on whose discretion he could rely. Which would also explain, why Brewer had two inconclusive lie detector tests. He did something wrong, but it wasn't killing SG. At least that is what I think. Hard to prove though, but it would also explain why Hackett later went in defensive mode. We have to keep in mind, they didn't know that only a little way distant someone had hidden some bodies. They reacted as if there were no GB4, no JD6 and so on, because they really didn't know it, and so their main interest was not to be connected to Brewer's little drug party.
 
From a behavioral point of view, the "rent-a-cop" is in the family of "house cleaners". That makes him local all the year round. But the murders occurred all in summer only. Why would a "rent-a-cop" be there only for a part of the year?

Hi,

I'm normally in another thread, but wandered in here and saw something to which I feel I can add commentary.

I grew up on an island with a beach community. Of course, there are year-round home owners, but peppered in between are homes rented out for a weekend, a week, or even longer - even moreso now that the economy has taken a hit, especially in the real estate market.

Because the year round residents are weary of the visitors, they employ summertime patrols - rent-a-cop, if you like. They basically meander through the community at night on a golf cart - or in wealthier neighborhoods, they have a car. Many times this is useful because the actual police departments are a substantial distance from the remote beach communities.

Also (pardon my lack of familiarity with this case, and whether or not the beach in question has these amenities) rent-a-cops are utilized by beach service companies. I'm referring to beach umbrella & chair rental companies, surf board rentals, jet skis, and trick kites, etc. The businesses round up their equipment at the end of the day and typically store them in some sort of shed near in proximity to their beach service area. The security people normally just watch that nobody breaks into the shed or storage place and runs off with their equipment.

Just my two cents, since I thought it might be of assistance.

Have a good evening!
 
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