Possibly related cases (GB4, Manorville, Bittrolff victims, & others)

Peter Brendt said:

Now this made me grin.

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Well, that's better than a sharp stick in the eye, right?

Peter Brendt said:

There are more reasons to profile this one as African-American, not only the speech patterns. The victimology, the fact, that he called the pimp in the first place, the dump site with drive-by revisitibility ... add that up. The speech thing is only one dot in the picture. Honestly, if that would be all, I wouldn't have dared to say anything about ethnicity. A one point profile is in my opinion too wobbly to speak at all.

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Ok, so "bro" was just an example you picked, no particular reason. I understand you feel there are other reasons to profile LISK as African-American. I had just been wondering if the supposed speech during that call was one of them. That aside, I also do not understand how "calling the pimp in the first place" and a "dump site with drive-by revisibility" point to race of any type? But that's okay, it's not your job to convince me.

On a side note: I have worked with people from all over the world, as is pretty common in IT. 4 people stand out in my memory as using the word "bro" all the time.. 2 were Caucasian, long-haired rocker/heavy metal types, :rocker: (I love any excuse to use that smiley) -one from Texas and one a surfer-type Californian. The other two: one was from India and the other was Iranian. How's that for stereotypical speech?

I am not a surfer, and know nothing about them either really. But perhaps you could invest in some radar device to protect your head while diving...like a fish-finder for surfers.

rotten dingo said:

Well, that's better than a sharp stick in the eye, right?

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I surely hope so

rotten dingo said:

Ok, so "bro" was just an example you picked, no particular reason. I understand you feel there are other reasons to profile LISK as African-American. I had just been wondering if the supposed speech during that call was one of them.

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As a matter of fact, it was a little obstacle in the way. Amanda and Terri both told, the caller was some drunk white dude. Everybody bought that part. But as you showed, the means to identify ethnicity by speech are ambivalent. Means, the guy on the phone could have been the same African-American and smart enough. It's pretty obvious, being drunk was a show act, so he was anyway posing on the phone as something he wasn't.

rotten dingo said:

That aside, I also do not understand how "calling the pimp in the first place" and a "dump site with drive-by revisibility" point to race of any type? But that's okay, it's not your job to convince me.

Click to expand...

It's not that hard, only something, nobody has to think about that often normally.
Imagine, you are a sick sadistic serial killer, who wants to psychological torture people on the phone. To call the little sister makes entirely sense for you. She loved your last victim, she is vulnerable and her youth makes her even more vulnerable. You can go off on her begging and crying. All is good in your world (please stay in the imagination, you are such a sicko). Okay, you kill the line, you fill great, you feel powerful, in control.
Now call the pimp. A pimp, by job description, makes his living by using women. He sends them to prostitute themselves and get the money they get for the tricks they pulled. He has to have to a little degree a sociopathic mindset to to do so. Not that much as a fully blown serial killer and not a psychopathic one as most SKs show. But some kind of a little bit similarity. So, you, a psychopathic sadist with the urge to torture and control, call a pimp, a low level sociopath, who is only limited able to feel psychological torture at all and who doesn't really care about the woman you killed beyond the point, where he thinks, he needs a new one to keep his income up. You try to torture a guy, who sent her out to sleep with dozens of men, getting beaten, getting strangled and what not else? Iamgine, you are a psychopathic whack job, who understands this all so well ... would you call the guy? You can't expect to psychological torture this guy. The best, you can expect is a "thank you, I wanted to replace her anyway against a newer model". And you know that, even before you pick up the phone! So why?
The only explanation is, you, the killer, are not just a sadistic whack job from handbook 101, but had other motives than the psychological torture. But that leaves a limited number of motives and the stereotype FBI profile "sex offenders kill in the own ethnicity" doesn't apply anymore.

Same thing with the drive-by dump site. A psychpath/sadist, like for example Ridgway or Bundy, those revisited their victims, spent hours there, masturbated, relived the murder, all of that. For them, every single victim was in a way important.
For a drive-by re-visitor, the single victim is not important. The place, his creation, is important. That is, what symbolizes his success for him. Not the single victim, but his creation in total. The victims are symbols for something he hates and here ha has his own little memorial for the victories over those symbols. It's an entirely different mindset.

rotten dingo said:

On a side note: I have worked with people from all over the world, as is pretty common in IT. 4 people stand out in my memory as using the word "bro" all the time.. 2 were Caucasian, long-haired rocker/heavy metal types, :rocker: (I love any excuse to use that smiley) -one from Texas and one a surfer-type Californian. The other two: one was from India and the other was Iranian. How's that for stereotypical speech?

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That's such a nice example for subcultures taking words from each other. The lower the intellectual level, the lower the ability to express themselves and therefore the higher the need to take over terms from other subcultural slangs. And the Indians were probably not in India? I worked with project teams from India and they take up speech patterns like sponges. Adaption appears to them to be a sign of politeness. A thing, that obviously comes from their culture.
A Texan? Dude, I would so have expected "dude" ...
But now seriously, what you tell here, is basically prove for the ambivalence of such speech patterns. We hear such keywords, such patterns and we assume. Imagine, you would have heard those guys on a phone, but never seen them, what would you think then?

rotten dingo said:

I am not a surfer, and know nothing about them either really. But perhaps you could invest in some radar device to protect your head while diving...like a fish-finder for surfers.

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No such thing on the market. But (quoting myself from one of my books) when it comes to surfers and sharks, my sympathies are sometimes clearly on the shark's side.

Peter

BKS said:

Licensed contractors and subcontractors pull "permits" for their work. That permit would show the contractors contact information and license #. Whether they are union doesn't matter. It would be harder to track a transit carpenter, for example that "works under the table" and under the radar of local building officials and the IRS. Most of these type workers are unemployable for reasons of alcoholism, drug addiction, or other antisocial behavior. Also, "special event permits" would tell us what was going on in both areas at that time. There could have been bike rallies, concerts, or even a circus, all would need a "special event permit" from the city or county they were in. Again, that permit would contain contact info for the event organizer.

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That helps only, if we could narrow down the construction projects he could have worked on and as of yet, I haven't found a way to do that. That's the reason, why I consider looking at spaces, we can assume, he has passed in a certain time pattern, like traffic cams on the Causeway.

Peter

Guess we're way off-topic from the intended subject matter of this thread, but I think it was already that way when I first responded to you. If this should be moved elsewhere, apologies. Not sure of the rules when a thread veers off topic.

First, thanks for elaborating on your reasoning about the dump site and making the calls and race. I believe I understand where you're coming from now. Still not sure I agree, but again, I respect your experience and your opinion.

Peter Brendt said:

And the Indians were probably not in India? I worked with project teams from India and they take up speech patterns like sponges. Adaption appears to them to be a sign of politeness. A thing, that obviously comes from their culture.

Click to expand...

We could all benefit from a little more politeness . I noticed some of that sponge thing as well, as I worked with a ton of people here in the US from India and many places in the Middle East, as well as other places. But perhaps that is more a human nature thing than a specific cultural trait. Whether a conscious effort or not, to assimilate into or try and feel more a part of an unfamiliar culture seems universally human to me. If I found myself living and working in China all of a sudden, I bet I would be sprinkling what I thought were common native words into my speaking as well.
The Indian "bro" sayer was in Dallas, TX, and the Cali-surfer guy and Iranian "bros" were in Atlanta, GA- go figure! But that reinforces my point.

Peter Brendt said:

A Texan? Dude, I would so have expected "dude" ...

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That's interesting, I'd never assume a Non-Texan to think Texans used the word "dude". "Yeehaw", "y'all" (guilty of that one) or the like I would expect, as it seems many people think Texans all live on ranches, wear cowboy boots and hats, drive a pickup truck and love country music.
I'm a Texan and probably only ever really used the word "dude" as a teen. This was a time it seemed most everyone my age (including myself) also had the annoying habit to insert the word "like" into their speaking as much as possible. For example: "Dude! I'm like so ready for the party this weekend! I'm like really excited, it's like going to be like so cool." Embarrassing to even think about.

I believe this terminology was part of the Valley-type talk that also originated in California? I've never even been to California. This way of speaking was very common here at that time though, and I'd assume it spread other places as well. Someone speaking on the phone to me at that time might have assumed incorrectly I was from California. It took me years to break that annoying "like" habit, and an occasional improper "like" still slips in once in a while.

Likewise, though many people assume there is a typical Texan accent, I've never met a new person who thought I was Texan. Many southern people have asked if I was from "up north". And I have been asked multiple times if I am European and have just lost most of my native accent. That always threw me for a loop. Perhaps I'm just a weirdo and speak oddly.

Peter Brendt said:

But now seriously, what you tell here, is basically prove for the ambivalence of such speech patterns. We hear such keywords, such patterns and we assume. Imagine, you would have heard those guys on a phone, but never seen them, what would you think then?

Click to expand...

BBM. Again, that was my point exactly.

But, FWIW, I still would never think your example term "bro" meant African-American. Perhaps it's just where I have lived, but I cannot recall that ever being a commonly used term by any African-American person I have ever known. It seems so very, very Caucasian to me. But now I'm the one doing the stereotyping.
But, if the wording on the phone calls ("I know where you be at") did not greatly influence your decision to profile LISK as AA, then it's all moot. (I know it wasn't the sole reason, of course) But perhaps it is a good reminder to us all that stereotyping in general is a bad thing, and humans come (and speak, and visually present, and behave, etc.) in many differing varieties.

PickleChris said:

I still cannot help to have the idea of the season these girls went missing drilling in my head. Is a Carnival in town (or in the LI area) for those months? Does it travel to NJ? Stage crew for Jones Beach Concerts also work in AC sometimes? I think we really need to concentrate on the time of year and what LI & AC might have in common the days these women went missing. Is anyone onboard with starting a new thread on this?

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I agree, maybe a new thread.

rotten dingo said:

Guess we're way off-topic from the intended subject matter of this thread, but I think it was already that way when I first responded to you. If this should be moved elsewhere, apologies. Not sure of the rules when a thread veers off topic.

First, thanks for elaborating on your reasoning about the dump site and making the calls and race. I believe I understand where you're coming from now. Still not sure I agree, but again, I respect your experience and your opinion.



We could all benefit from a little more politeness . I noticed some of that sponge thing as well, as I worked with a ton of people here in the US from India and many places in the Middle East, as well as other places. But perhaps that is more a human nature thing than a specific cultural trait. Whether a conscious effort or not, to assimilate into or try and feel more a part of an unfamiliar culture seems universally human to me. If I found myself living and working in China all of a sudden, I bet I would be sprinkling what I thought were common native words into my speaking as well.
The Indian "bro" sayer was in Dallas, TX, and the Cali-surfer guy and Iranian "bros" were in Atlanta, GA- go figure! But that reinforces my point.


That's interesting, I'd never assume a Non-Texan to think Texans used the word "dude". "Yeehaw", "y'all" (guilty of that one) or the like I would expect, as it seems many people think Texans all live on ranches, wear cowboy boots and hats, drive a pickup truck and love country music.
I'm a Texan and probably only ever really used the word "dude" as a teen. This was a time it seemed most everyone my age (including myself) also had the annoying habit to insert the word "like" into their speaking as much as possible. For example: "Dude! I'm like so ready for the party this weekend! I'm like really excited, it's like going to be like so cool." Embarrassing to even think about.

I believe this terminology was part of the Valley-type talk that also originated in California? I've never even been to California. This way of speaking was very common here at that time though, and I'd assume it spread other places as well. Someone speaking on the phone to me at that time might have assumed incorrectly I was from California. It took me years to break that annoying "like" habit, and an occasional improper "like" still slips in once in a while.

Likewise, though many people assume there is a typical Texan accent, I've never met a new person who thought I was Texan. Many southern people have asked if I was from "up north". And I have been asked multiple times if I am European and have just lost most of my native accent. That always threw me for a loop. Perhaps I'm just a weirdo and speak oddly.



BBM. Again, that was my point exactly.

But, FWIW, I still would never think your example term "bro" meant African-American. Perhaps it's just where I have lived, but I cannot recall that ever being a commonly used term by any African-American person I have ever known. It seems so very, very Caucasian to me. But now I'm the one doing the stereotyping.
But, if the wording on the phone calls ("I know where you be at") did not greatly influence your decision to profile LISK as AA, then it's all moot. (I know it wasn't the sole reason, of course) But perhaps it is a good reminder to us all that stereotyping in general is a bad thing, and humans come (and speak, and visually present, and behave, etc.) in many differing varieties.

Click to expand...

The main reason, why the calls are important were, that Amanda an Terri both described the caller as drunk white dude, which was pretty much 180 degrees to my profile. But since, as we figured over the last few posts, speech patterns don't give a clear connection to ethnicity and the drunk part was anyway a show act, I am so free now with the other points. :rocker: (now I had to do it!)

Peter

Peter Brendt said:

The main reason, why the calls are important were, that Amanda an Terri both described the caller as drunk white dude, which was pretty much 180 degrees to my profile. But since, as we figured over the last few posts, speech patterns don't give a clear connection to ethnicity and the drunk part was anyway a show act, I am so free now with the other points. :rocker: (now I had to do it!)

Peter

Click to expand...

FYI, Amanda never said that the caller was/sounded drunk, quite the opposite.
here is what I hhave collected from newsreports on the calls to Melissa Barthelemy's sister:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-159991.html

The seven Jul/Aug 2009 phonecalls, made by the killer to Melissa's little sister Amanda.
Quotes:

According to newsreports, there were seven calls in all.
The caller I.D. displayed the number of Melissa’s missing cellphone
The killer always phoned in the evenings,
The killer always spoke for less than three minutes.
In all phonecalls the caller only wanted to talk to Melissa Barthelemy's little sister Amanda.
One time MB's mother answered, and the killer hung up as soon as he heard her voice.
Whoever was calling knew what Amanda looked like.
Police traced some of the calls to midtown Manhattan; Times Square, and Madison Square Garden, and another to Massapequa.
The killer sounded like an "older white guy"
Authorities tell CBS News he's likely white, between 25 and 40, is intelligent and street-smart
The killers voice was self-assured, a low voice, calmly mocking MB's sister.
"He was calm, in control," "He knew what he was doing." Amanda says.
"The voice on the other end was calm and bland, and never yelled or laughed" her mother, Lynn Barthelemy, said.
The killers was vulgar, mocking and insulting, according to the dead woman's mother, Lynn Barthelemy.
''If you accept it was the killer calling, he certainly had feelings of anger towards prostitutes.'' Mr. Cohen, Lynn Barthelemy's lawyer, said.

The calls abruptly stopped in August 2009 after a Buffalo TV station revealed their existence.


2009 calls from the killer, using MB's cell phone.

7 calls were made, Belowe are the 4 known dates, the last 3 calls has not been disclosed):


Thurs July 16, 2009: first call
Sun July 19, 2009:
Thurs July 23, 2009
Wed Aug 26, 2009: last call ( 01:00 am, lasted ca 40 seconds ) traced to the Times Square area.



SK Phonecalls content:

Thise are quotes from some of the phonecalls:

“Is this Melissa’s little sister?”

“I hear you’re a half-breed.”

'Do you know what your sister is doing? She's a *advertiser censored*.' (1st call according to LB's atty Steve Cohen)

“Are you gonna be a *advertiser censored* like your sister?”

"Do you think you'll ever see to her again?," .... "You won't. I killed her," (after having sex with her, he claimed Aug. 26, 2009, 1AM )
In the final call, the man described in graphic detail to the victim's sister what he had done sexually to Barthelemy, Cohen said.

And according to LB's atty Steve Cohen, in Dec 2011 48 Hours:

The killer also said that he know where Amanda lives and that he might come after her.

and that; "The killer said sexually exposit things as to what he had done to Melissa, and he said sexually

exposit things as to what he was going to do to Amanda"



In the link I posted you can also find info on the phonecalls that Melissa's boyfriend, Johnny Terry recived.

Theforeigner said:

FYI, Amanda never said that the caller was/sounded drunk, quite the opposite.
here is what I hhave collected from newsreports on the calls to Melissa Barthelemy's sister:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-159991.html

The seven Jul/Aug 2009 phonecalls, made by the killer to Melissa's little sister Amanda.
Quotes:

According to newsreports, there were seven calls in all.
The caller I.D. displayed the number of Melissa’s missing cellphone
The killer always phoned in the evenings,
The killer always spoke for less than three minutes.
In all phonecalls the caller only wanted to talk to Melissa Barthelemy's little sister Amanda.
One time MB's mother answered, and the killer hung up as soon as he heard her voice.
Whoever was calling knew what Amanda looked like.
Police traced some of the calls to midtown Manhattan; Times Square, and Madison Square Garden, and another to Massapequa.
The killer sounded like an "older white guy"
Authorities tell CBS News he's likely white, between 25 and 40, is intelligent and street-smart
The killers voice was self-assured, a low voice, calmly mocking MB's sister.
"He was calm, in control," "He knew what he was doing." Amanda says.
"The voice on the other end was calm and bland, and never yelled or laughed" her mother, Lynn Barthelemy, said.
The killers was vulgar, mocking and insulting, according to the dead woman's mother, Lynn Barthelemy.
''If you accept it was the killer calling, he certainly had feelings of anger towards prostitutes.'' Mr. Cohen, Lynn Barthelemy's lawyer, said.

The calls abruptly stopped in August 2009 after a Buffalo TV station revealed their existence.


2009 calls from the killer, using MB's cell phone.

7 calls were made, Belowe are the 4 known dates, the last 3 calls has not been disclosed):


Thurs July 16, 2009: first call
Sun July 19, 2009:
Thurs July 23, 2009
Wed Aug 26, 2009: last call ( 01:00 am, lasted ca 40 seconds ) traced to the Times Square area.



SK Phonecalls content:

Thise are quotes from some of the phonecalls:

“Is this Melissa’s little sister?”

“I hear you’re a half-breed.”

'Do you know what your sister is doing? She's a *advertiser censored*.' (1st call according to LB's atty Steve Cohen)

“Are you gonna be a *advertiser censored* like your sister?”

"Do you think you'll ever see to her again?," .... "You won't. I killed her," (after having sex with her, he claimed Aug. 26, 2009, 1AM )
In the final call, the man described in graphic detail to the victim's sister what he had done sexually to Barthelemy, Cohen said.

And according to LB's atty Steve Cohen, in Dec 2011 48 Hours:

The killer also said that he know where Amanda lives and that he might come after her.

and that; "The killer said sexually exposit things as to what he had done to Melissa, and he said sexually

exposit things as to what he was going to do to Amanda"



In the link I posted you can also find info on the phonecalls that Melissa's boyfriend, Johnny Terry recived.

Click to expand...

Now, and here I am trying to convince people, the guy wasn't drunk ... that's so nice! Thanks a lot! That solves most of my problems with those calls.

Peter

Peter Brendt said:

The calls have a second aspect. He talked about Melissa's lifestyle, about punishment. And all his sexual hints appear in the fragments, we got in the media refer to things he would do, not things, he did. Put both together and you have the mindset of someone, who looks at hookers with kind of morbid fascination of what he considers wrong, if not outright evil. This is consistent with certain mostly African-American congregations in the wider area.

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As opposed to all of the white congregations where prostitution is encouraged?

Originally Posted by rotten dingo
That aside, I also do not understand how "calling the pimp in the first place" and a "dump site with drive-by revisibility" point to race of any type? But that's okay, it's not your job to convince me.


It's not that hard, only something, nobody has to think about that often normally.
Imagine, you are a sick sadistic serial killer, who wants to psychological torture people on the phone. To call the little sister makes entirely sense for you. She loved your last victim, she is vulnerable and her youth makes her even more vulnerable. You can go off on her begging and crying. All is good in your world (please stay in the imagination, you are such a sicko). Okay, you kill the line, you fill great, you feel powerful, in control.
Now call the pimp. A pimp, by job description, makes his living by using women. He sends them to prostitute themselves and get the money they get for the tricks they pulled. He has to have to a little degree a sociopathic mindset to to do so. Not that much as a fully blown serial killer and not a psychopathic one as most SKs show. But some kind of a little bit similarity. So, you, a psychopathic sadist with the urge to torture and control, call a pimp, a low level sociopath, who is only limited able to feel psychological torture at all and who doesn't really care about the woman you killed beyond the point, where he thinks, he needs a new one to keep his income up. You try to torture a guy, who sent her out to sleep with dozens of men, getting beaten, getting strangled and what not else? Iamgine, you are a psychopathic whack job, who understands this all so well ... would you call the guy? You can't expect to psychological torture this guy. The best, you can expect is a "thank you, I wanted to replace her anyway against a newer model". And you know that, even before you pick up the phone! So why?
The only explanation is, you, the killer, are not just a sadistic whack job from handbook 101, but had other motives than the psychological torture. But that leaves a limited number of motives and the stereotype FBI profile "sex offenders kill in the own ethnicity" doesn't apply anymore.

Same thing with the drive-by dump site. A psychpath/sadist, like for example Ridgway or Bundy, those revisited their victims, spent hours there, masturbated, relived the murder, all of that. For them, every single victim was in a way important.
For a drive-by re-visitor, the single victim is not important. The place, his creation, is important. That is, what symbolizes his success for him. Not the single victim, but his creation in total. The victims are symbols for something he hates and here ha has his own little memorial for the victories over those symbols. It's an entirely different mindset.

With regards to him calling the pimp, you are assuming the SK was aware that he was calling her pimp. I doubt she had him stored in her phone as "my pimp", especially given the fact if she were arrested for prositution, they police will want to know who her pimp is. So it is unlikely that he was stored in her phone as pimp, daddy...etc because they are all well known synonyms for "pimp".

She probably had him stored as some informal term for "boyfriend" or "baby". Some of these girls, especially off craigslist, do have husbands, boyfriends..etc that may/may not know what their significant other is up to. If one of the last 5 calls was from someone labeled as "boyfriend"..etc, and he saw this, that may be an extension of the psychological torture exhibited to the sister.

Aleph said:

As opposed to all of the white congregations where prostitution is encouraged?

Click to expand...

As opposed to a lot of white congregations who pretend the subject doesn't exist, at least till none of them got caught with a hooker.

Peter

tmacirish1 said:

Originally Posted by rotten dingo
That aside, I also do not understand how "calling the pimp in the first place" and a "dump site with drive-by revisibility" point to race of any type? But that's okay, it's not your job to convince me.


It's not that hard, only something, nobody has to think about that often normally.
Imagine, you are a sick sadistic serial killer, who wants to psychological torture people on the phone. To call the little sister makes entirely sense for you. She loved your last victim, she is vulnerable and her youth makes her even more vulnerable. You can go off on her begging and crying. All is good in your world (please stay in the imagination, you are such a sicko). Okay, you kill the line, you fill great, you feel powerful, in control.
Now call the pimp. A pimp, by job description, makes his living by using women. He sends them to prostitute themselves and get the money they get for the tricks they pulled. He has to have to a little degree a sociopathic mindset to to do so. Not that much as a fully blown serial killer and not a psychopathic one as most SKs show. But some kind of a little bit similarity. So, you, a psychopathic sadist with the urge to torture and control, call a pimp, a low level sociopath, who is only limited able to feel psychological torture at all and who doesn't really care about the woman you killed beyond the point, where he thinks, he needs a new one to keep his income up. You try to torture a guy, who sent her out to sleep with dozens of men, getting beaten, getting strangled and what not else? Iamgine, you are a psychopathic whack job, who understands this all so well ... would you call the guy? You can't expect to psychological torture this guy. The best, you can expect is a "thank you, I wanted to replace her anyway against a newer model". And you know that, even before you pick up the phone! So why?
The only explanation is, you, the killer, are not just a sadistic whack job from handbook 101, but had other motives than the psychological torture. But that leaves a limited number of motives and the stereotype FBI profile "sex offenders kill in the own ethnicity" doesn't apply anymore.

Same thing with the drive-by dump site. A psychpath/sadist, like for example Ridgway or Bundy, those revisited their victims, spent hours there, masturbated, relived the murder, all of that. For them, every single victim was in a way important.
For a drive-by re-visitor, the single victim is not important. The place, his creation, is important. That is, what symbolizes his success for him. Not the single victim, but his creation in total. The victims are symbols for something he hates and here ha has his own little memorial for the victories over those symbols. It's an entirely different mindset.

With regards to him calling the pimp, you are assuming the SK was aware that he was calling her pimp. I doubt she had him stored in her phone as "my pimp", especially given the fact if she were arrested for prositution, they police will want to know who her pimp is. So it is unlikely that he was stored in her phone as pimp, daddy...etc because they are all well known synonyms for "pimp".

She probably had him stored as some informal term for "boyfriend" or "baby". Some of these girls, especially off craigslist, do have husbands, boyfriends..etc that may/may not know what their significant other is up to. If one of the last 5 calls was from someone labeled as "boyfriend"..etc, and he saw this, that may be an extension of the psychological torture exhibited to the sister.

Click to expand...

Okay, you have an obviously drug addicted prostitute ... you find in her phone a "Baby", a "Terri", a "Willie", whatever. Imagine you are an ORGANIZED SK, what do you do? Two scenarios, either you can get the information out of the victim, if she is still alive or you get information by more stalking. The give away is the line "Are you her little sister?" Because chances are, Amanda was as "Amanda" in the phone. Additionally, he knew, at this point at least, Amanda was mixed ethnicity. So, how? Either from her sister or from pics on the phone or from more stalking. But someone, who does his homework that meticulous doesn't call on a spontaneous idea. So, chances are, he knew very well, who and what Terri was. I mean, seriously, which normal bf would be happy if his gf goes out all the time to have sex with other men? One could consider this some kind of give away.

Peter

"The calls abruptly stopped in August 2009 after a Buffalo TV station revealed their existence."

So... Was he in the buffalo area at the time to see this broadcast?

Samantha Spade said:

"The calls abruptly stopped in August 2009 after a Buffalo TV station revealed their existence."

So... Was he in the buffalo area at the time to see this broadcast?

Click to expand...

It may have been picked up by a local station since she was last seen in the Bronx and the calls originated from Manhattan.

he probably simply googled her name to see if there were missing person's reports, or anything in the news about her being missing...

Truth or any other techie gurus out there,
Is it possible for google to track who googled "her full name" during that time?

truthspider said:

he probably simply googled her name to see if there were missing person's reports, or anything in the news about her being missing...

Click to expand...

That makes sense.

He may have even been checking the Buffalo newspapers and tv stations online to see what was being reported.

Samantha Spade said:

"The calls abruptly stopped in August 2009 after a Buffalo TV station revealed their existence."

So... Was he in the buffalo area at the time to see this broadcast?

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A lot of stations, papers and internet media including several blogs picked up on this after that. Basically the story about the calls went kind of viral, so he could have learned about it everywhere.

Peter

Samantha Spade said:

Truth or any other techie gurus out there,
Is it possible for google to track who googled "her full name" during that time?

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*this is not a researched post, just my best guess as of this moment.

The data that would prove someone googled her name (or yahoo'd her name, or binged her name, etc) would really only reside in a 2 places: the machine the query was made from (assuming cookies, history, personalization, etc stored it) and the server that received the query (google's server, yahoo's server etc). Any stops along the way in between these 2 nodes would likely not store this information.

There are multiple ways the search engine companies may have this info stored, if they stored it at all. I believe the search engines have/do provide search history for specific users that aren't browsing privately. I don't know if there is a precedent for a search engines providing evidence of the simple existence of a query with or without an associated IP address.

I am answering your question assuming that the user was browsing privately meaning that google etc won't have an account/identity tied to the query. So the answer to the question, "do search engines store all query's they have ever received for ever" I don't know, but probably not.

The fbi would probably have more luck (lol) if they subpoenaed the server logs of the Buffalo news organizations that hosted the articles mentioning the missing girl and the phone calls. It would be interesting to see if any of those client IPs were from the western suffolk area or oak beach specifically.

Samantha Spade said:

Truth or any other techie gurus out there,
Is it possible for google to track who googled "her full name" during that time?

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Truth already answered you, but I'll chime in as well. Google specifically stores massive amounts of info. Info they track includes things like: search query, IP address, browser type, OS of your computer, etc. I believe as part of their re-vamped privacy policies that they claim to store info for only 18 months now.
There are many ways to search the web, though, and each company would have their own policies and records. (Bing, Yahoo, etc) Again, if proxies/anonymizing methods were used while searching, this would make things more complex to track back to a person. A timely subpoena to Google might have shown who, if anyone, "googled" her name during that period.

As Truth pointed out, history of such a search might also reside on the computer from which it originated. That is, if the person did not remove all evidence of any such search. This search, if it ever happened, could also have come from a public pc or friend's/family members system. I think the only way info like this will ever be found is once they already have the perp, and then only if there is still evidence remaining on his computer. (or a computer tied to him)

A third place that tracks where you go on the web is your internet provider. But they might know when you went to google, for example, but not what you searched for.

We are tracked in multiple ways everywhere we go on the internet. In solving a crime, that can be a great thing. But only if LE cares enough, and within the proper time frame, to do anything about it. A surveillance camera could have been set up at the dump site and recorded all the comings and goings of the LISK there, but that would be pointless if LE didn't ask for the recordings till 3 years later when they'd all been deleted/re-recorded.