Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #17

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squizzey1 said:
thanks to those who posted link for me about the other women he met at a conference. got that from google news alert. i am sure they are talking about ANOTHER women
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Yes, this is a new woman, who he met at a conference on the Gold Coast. It is not TM (the known mistress).
 
Shelbinator said:
543 had a 'hit by a car' theory. There was also another more recent one I think...
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Yes, they were kind of dismissed away!
Hawkins.....are you giving us a clue?
Cause the whole dent in the prado thing could mean something?
 
CaseClosed, sorry if I've confused you. I'll go take a look.
 
CaseClosed said:
Yes, this is a new woman, who he met at a conference on the Gold Coast. It is not TM (the known mistress).
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Cool. Sqiz is just a bit behind then.

2 "ladies" -
TM - Work colleague and mistress
Syd colleague/associate met at Gold Coast conference.
 
Hawkins said:
The arrest of a person to be charged with homicide will be done pursuant to the Police Powers and Responsibilities Act and the Justices Act. The legislation you cite there G just applies to summary offences, which are the less serious offences, usually dealt with in the Magistrates Court and without a jury. Reasonable suspicion is more a phenomenon that comes into play when police need authority to act quickly to stop suspects and witnesses leaving the scene of an offence. They can arrest a person just for questioning if there is a reasonable suspicion. But of course that might be of no use if they decline to be interviewed after being arrested. It doesn't really impact on a case like this. But it's awesome that people are taking a deeper interest in the criminal law and actually reading the law themselves, it's supposed to be there for our benefit after all. IMO MOO. Police also don't need to arrest a person to charge them. An arrest is simply an understanding held by the person being arrested that they are not free to go until police release them. It's not a particularly dramatic event in most matters. In a case like this the point of an arrest would be to have a person(s) charged as quickly as possible at a police station and then brought before a court so that the issue of bail can be detertmined. That wont happen in a magistrates court if the charge is murder. The charged person(s) then could be looking at a year or so in a remand centre (prison) before going to trial. IMO. MOO.

On an unrelated note, I'm interested in reading again the post of someone who logged on to claim that Mrs Baden Clay was struck by a car. Does anyone remember the username that was used for that post?
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This may be the one Hawkins...

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7914174&postcount=935"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #7[/ame]
 
DunnoZo said:
LauraMars, that phone thing still bothers me as well. someone 's replied that maybe they've found it, but once again, the reporting on triangulation somewhere within 3 suburbs, 150m,etc. is still strange to me. I'd love to know exactly who said it would be found 150 m. from her house...
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Someone (who is into tech things) explained several weeks ago that the initial triangulation is done to the mobile towers (3 at least) in the area. But apparently, later, with the cooperation of the telecommunications company, they can pin-point the location to a narrower area. The "150m" thing was reported by the media (TV) the same day the body was found and they also said that new searches were made by SES and police of the backyard of the family home and the neighbours backyard that same afternoon after the body was found. I gather the police thought the iPhone could have been with the body, but when they found her, they knew it wasn't and renewed their search for it. IMO.
 
Shelbinator said:
543 had a 'hit by a car' theory. There was also another more recent one I think...
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Because poster 543 is now inactive can we talk about them?
I seriously just got the creeps again reading their posts.
Some far out and aggressive posts from that one.
I remember pointing out what a coincidence how mathematically close his initials were to family.
5-E 4-D 3-C (Ok maybe I am the creepy one) LOL
 
Aunty said:
I posted this late last night and I am worried readers may have skipped it whilst catching up today.
I know it's long , but please read it as (it took me ages to type) :please:
I have such a strong sense that Allison was driving her car that night.
Also, the police observations in the morning at the house - they would have spoken to the husband, :detective: who is covered in scratches, hands shaking, avoiding eye contact. Blood still oozing maybe. :what::eek:
Gbc would have known that they saw this. :what:That's why he didn't, want to be interviewed at Indro, because he knew allowed be asked specifically about those scratches. He needed to avoid that interview and have a bloody good reason why he couldn't go. ( hmmmm... Doctors letter? :panic: forgot to go :panic: slept in? soooo on the way it came to him... Accident :eek:kay:
Solicitor WAS following him to police station that day, so he also had a witness to ring police to say " he's a little bit hurt but he's ok" just some minor injuries cuts and brushing scratches , from the airbag of course. :violin:
Narcissists are very very clever at finding one solution to many problems. Scratches, avoiding interview, witness, Killing 4 birds with one stone , at Indro that day.
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This is certainly plausible, Aunty ... as plausible as any other theory thus far offered.
 
DunnoZo said:
LauraMars, that phone thing still bothers me as well. someone 's replied that maybe they've found it, but once again, the reporting on triangulation somewhere within 3 suburbs, 150m,etc. is still strange to me. I'd love to know exactly who said it would be found 150 m. from her house...
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DunnoZo, the triangulation thing was strange, in that it wasn't until after Allison's body was found, that the story changed from the 3 suburbs area, right down to 150m. By that stage it was almost 2 weeks later, and obviously the battery was long flat by then. It does make you wonder whether police were given more info from witnesses, or had a tip-off.

I wouldn't be surprised if police have the phone now though, just because they haven't mentioned it in ages.
 
Morning all.....just finished 'catching up' on posts (phew...wipes forehead).

Mountainhigh...it's SO frustrating with the way the media are 'reporting' isn't it? I noticed while going through the posts (someone teach me to quote/link!) that the Courier Mail say Allison 'disappeared' but then was SUBSEQUENTLY murdered. Ordinarily I would think this was VERY significant to the scheme of things, however with all the various 'wordings' reported, I guess we just have to disregard it. I'd been waiting for someone to pick up on the phrase as I read, but unless I have missed something, I don't think anyone has commented on it. Any thoughts?

Hawkins....you're getting quite 'cuddly' with a few margeuritas in you! I'd previously mentioned not being all that interested in 'crime' however with you mentioning Rachel Antonio from Bowen, I recall that case so well, as I lived in Mackay at the time, and it just brought home to me how if you're somewhat 'local' you DO feel more of a connection to things near to you. If I recall correctly, Rachel pretended she was pregnant which was a possible motive for her murder, and it was speculated that she had 'borrowed' a friend's urine to demonstrate a 'positive' pregnancy test to that guy. Very sad....I can still picture she and her parents....who of course have no 'closure' with no body.

Indromum you are absolutely AWESOME....and we appreciate all your input. (Just personally....I am Wozzle enough to creep up the driveway with a torch to look at number plates (I'd take Willough with me for courage!)....'Scrap' and I have a 'connection'.....no not a 'dog whisperer' unfortunately - my avatar is 'Scrat' coincidentally.)

Re 'arrests': I've been wondering whether the QPS would only need enough evidence to arrest the murderer, and having done so, the conspirators/associates would naturally fall into place as 'collateral damage' (ie I suggest someone would squeal like a pig to save his own porky pink skin!!) Or would they want an air tight case on ALL persons involved? Wouldn't you just LOVE to be a fly on the wall in that Indro command centre....I'm picturing enormous white boards and pin boards with photos and arrows etc. in multicoloured textas (or have I just seen too much TV?)

Re SETTLE number plates. To the person asking (sorry no 'quote'!...I think Liadan and KG1) about why the word 'SETTLE'.....as well as referring to closing a deal on property as already mentioned, other posters informed us that 'Settle' is the title of one of GBC's companies (there are links way back there somewhere).

Spratsmum - haha on wearing the baby pooh coloured ribbon for identification. However it's not such a silly idea if people go to the cricket match and want to check out other websleuthers. If someone approaches you and looks a bit 'suss' you could always deny the ribbon means what it does, but if they look kosher you could whip out your 'moniker' to show them. If they look at you strangely, no harm done. But....one must be careful always. (I've had meetings with internet persons....but that's another story for another time and place!! All good, however).

Must away to work...but before I go it's amazing how Allison impacts us in unexpected ways. When Spratsmum was suggesting how difficult it would be to dress a floppy body, I just happened to shortly after be doing the very same thing (yes, I'm a nurse and deal with death often) and as I tended to this dear old man, I thought of Allison....both the contrast between a 'life' completed like the old fellow I was caring for in his 80s (yes, and like my nearly 12 year old Leo!) and poor Allison whose life was cut short, and treated with so much disregard after death. I am not religious at all, but I still 'speak' to deceased persons as I ready them for their trip out of the ward. I wonder what was said to poor Allison as she reached her final resting place......if anything. Sigh.

Welcome all you new posters.....there are quite a few of us popping up now, who've read everything thus far, but contributed little. Great posts...thankyou!
 
Curiousasacat said:
Because poster 543 is now inactive can we talk about them?
I seriously just got the creeps again reading their posts.
Some far out and aggressive posts from that one.
I remember pointing out what a coincidence how mathematically close his initials were to family.
5-E 4-D 3-C (Ok maybe I am the creepy one) LOL
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Yes, it was very creepy indeed. He/she was SO forceful with their theory... to the point of being very rude... even after it was explained that it did not go along with what police were saying. :/
 
pirathames said:
Thanks very much to everyone for the exceedingly warm welcome :)

Just some information regarding the discovery of Allison's body and the evidence that lead forensics/police to determine that Allison was deceased before her body was dumped. I apologise for the length of this post and doubly so if there are any members who are disturbed or upset by any of the subject matter.

When a human body has been discovered and the crime scene properly secured, the police will then work in conjunction with active investigating personnel to gather evidence and to attempt to pinpoint a cause of death. It is generally the police on scene who will initially note the position of the body and to record any obvious injuries or possible cause/s of death. The police will also note the physical conditions of the crime scene and any obvious evidence such a footprints, vehicle impressions, weapons, etc.

The forensics team on site will generally consist of one or two death investigators, a forensic photographer and any other experts that police feel might be able to assist with the investigation such as a ballistics expert or an expert in detecting trace elements and blood patterns. They will then work with police (generally, at this point, with assigned homicide detectives) to establish whether the death took place at the crime scene, whether there have been any attempts to tamper with or alter the crime scene, if the crime scene suggests correlating factors such as burglary or drug abuse, if the cause of death is obvious and if there are clues to suggest how the death occurred.

It is reasonable to assume that police and other personnel established at a fairly early point that the location of Allison's body was not the actual scene of her death. Circumstances that lead them to that opinion were possibly based on a number of factors, most notably the condition of her body, the fact that the area had been subjected to heavy rain and it was very likely that her body had travelled some distance, whether great or small, the position of her body and the lack of physical or forensic evidence at the scene.

It is my belief that the condition of Allison's body was more than likely a major factor in establishing that she was not killed where she was found and that she was dumped under the bridge after death.

As in Allison's case where no visible signs of foul play were perhaps immediately evident, a forensic entomologist is then employed to establish whether or not drowning was the official cause of death and when the approximate time of death occurred. Once drowning has been ruled out, the body is examined for other evidence of foul play and for the presence of pupae and other insects. These pupae are crucial in determining an approximate time or date of death and their presence can tell a forensic entomologist a lot about where the body has been. Blood pooling under the surface of the skin and rigor mortis would also have been taken into account to establish time of death.

Determining whether injuries suffered to the body occurred post or ante mortem is usually left to the coroner, but it should be noted that a body will decompose at a much slower rate in running water than it will in stagnant water, and obviously in cold water as opposed to warm. That said, lividity is most common in the head, neck and chest areas where victims have been submerged in water after death and then re-surfaced. This can make it very difficult to determine an "obvious" cause of death simply by looking at the body, particularly in cases where strangulation has been the cause of death.

Based on the process that is followed to determine a cause of death, the police are more than likely keeping whatever evidence they discovered out of the public eye at this point in their investigation. It is almost impossible to logically accept that there were no visible or obvious signs of foul play present on Allison's body at the time she was discovered, especially given that police released a statement saying that they were confident that they knew how she was killed.

It all adds to the mystery of her disappearance and death, but I have every confidence that the QPS are doing everything they can do gather all the evidence they need to make an arrest. I hope some of this information has been useful or at least shed some light on the processes involved in determining cause and time of death.
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Hi, thanks again for this indepth post. A couple of comments and questions.. Given that Allisons body was not found for some 11 days after she went missing and with exposure to elements etc.. I am not sure how easily they would be able to tell some of the things you mention in regards to condition of the body(?). We are also unsure if she was in the water at any point or not(Police may be). So something like strangulation I would think may be very difficult to tell at the point of initial examination at the scene. If Allison was stabbed or shot(not saying thats so), then yes I guess they could likely get a fair idea from whether it appears she bled out(sorry people, I am giving myself the shivers even saying it). However if the water has been up at the point of where she was found, then most of that evidence would be washed away(I would think).

When you mention about the forensic entomologist and determining whether she drowned etc. I thought all that sort of investigations, would not take place at the scene. It would be part of the autopsy? My point being It appears the police were sure of how she died shortly after her body was discovered. Which indicates a visible sign of foul play- even though media reported otherwise. (something obviously police have wanted to keep quiet). So I come back to, Strangulation would likely be difficult to tell immediately given the condition of the body.. Stabbing and gunshot, could likely be determind at the scene and lack of blood in vicinity would indicate she was killed elsewhere.... Has me wondering..

MOO
 
Hawkins said:
The one I meant was someone(s) who posted a claim to know, not as a theory, that she was struck by a car on the bridge and knocked into the creek. This may have been later deleted.
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Can you remember anything. Thread or kind of name? We can look for you?
 
Hawkins said:
The one I meant was someone(s) who posted a claim to know, not as a theory, that she was struck by a car on the bridge and knocked into the creek. This may have been later deleted.
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Rings a bell... but I have no idea who. Probably one who isn't around anymore? I'd say it would have been deleted soon after by the mods anyway.
 
LauraMars said:
DunnoZo, the triangulation thing was strange, in that it wasn't until after Allison's body was found, that the story changed from the 3 suburbs area, right down to 150m. By that stage it was almost 2 weeks later, and obviously the battery was long flat by then. It does make you wonder whether police were given more info from witnesses, or had a tip-off.

I wouldn't be surprised if police have the phone now though, just because they haven't mentioned it in ages.
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I wondered if there was a tip off also.. because media statements said, 'searchers were told where to look'(for the phone) On the same day Allisons body was discovered.. makes me wonder, who told searchers where to look? Was it police who told SES workers where to look. Or searchers(as in police and ses) were told by 'someone' where to look?
 
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