Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 2

Sharoneonta said:

I'm curious the relationship between JR's family and GR. With the lack of urgency regarding searches and the lack of news coverage is it possible that LE knows her whereabouts? Did they disclose this information to GR? They are not allowed, by law, to disclose this information to anyone other than the person who filed the missing person report. If he is not on good terms with her family, or somehow felt that they were accusatory toward him is he "punishing" them by not telling them that she is not technically missing anymore? I know this is not probable and would really be a horrible thing to do but it has been running thru my mind all day.

Also, could he be enough of a narcissist to not want to give up all the attention (positive or negative) that he's gotten over the last month?

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This is a great thought! If this were the case, he would be keeping it entirely, 100% to himself, or else someone that he's told would have leaked it by now. Hmm. I would just hate to think that LE would continue to allow people to suffer if they knew for a fact where she was. I wonder if they would be saying, if not to the public then at least to JR's parents, that this was no longer an open case. Something that would indicate that they were no longer looking for her, without crossing the line and breaking the law by saying she's been found.

I feel like I'm grasping at straws but I can't make sense of any of it. I'm not sure the intricacies of the law surrounding closing a case like this.

I do know that if my husband were missing, you'd have to actually lock me up to dissuade me from searching every second of the day. I'd be THRILLED if "strangers" were offering their help and I'd certainly not blindly trust small town LE to handle everything.

Whatever LE's reasonings may be, I do think it's very convenient for GR to be able to claim that LE doesn't want the searches, instead of himself not wanting the searches. He gets to look like the good guy, working with LE, doing everything they ask of him, going along with their requests. It would be interesting to see how he reacted if LE said yes, let's go along with public searches.

This whole thing is SO confusing.

I'd like to add that I know a lot of people commenting think that JR would never leave willingly and I have no doubt that she is a wonderful and loving mother. My thinking is that if there is a possibility that she could have been harmed by someone close to her, then it's also possible that they could have harmed her mental state. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors or in anyone's head. I mean no disrespect to her family, I'm just saying she may have felt she had no other choice.

I hope you, her family, find peace and answers soon.

Sharoneonta said:

I'm curious the relationship between JR's family and GR. With the lack of urgency regarding searches and the lack of news coverage is it possible that LE knows her whereabouts? Did they disclose this information to GR? They are not allowed, by law, to disclose this information to anyone other than the person who filed the missing person report. If he is not on good terms with her family, or somehow felt that they were accusatory toward him is he "punishing" them by not telling them that she is not technically missing anymore? I know this is not probable and would really be a horrible thing to do but it has been running thru my mind all day.

Also, could he be enough of a narcissist to not want to give up all the attention (positive or negative) that he's gotten over the last month?

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Although they may not be able to tell the public/press. etc. if they knew she was alive and well, they would tell them the case was closed. They would probably ask that people stop distributing the flier. And even though it may not be allowed by law, they would find their ways to make sure her family knew she was alive and well.

terrortag said:

Hi folks, new poster here. Just wanted to weigh in with some thoughts on this, which I've been following since the first thread.

As a warning, my post will probably seem a bit devil's advocate (although I'm not 100% sure what I think happened to Jennifer).

1) Why is everyone suddenly leaping to call her husband's quick time on calling the police fishy? I seem to remember that in the last thread - or was it other similar threads on here - I saw people saying "I would be calling my family if they were late by 20 minutes!" It seems as though first people thought he waited too long to call, and now he called too soon, which feels a little unfair. Everyone reacts differently in this kind of situation; personally I don't see too much amiss in this kind of response time.

2) On going to locate the phone without police/without being afraid: if he could see that the phone's location was beside a public road/bridge, is there much cause to be afraid that a dangerous person is there with it almost 24 hours later? I could see staying away if Google Maps showed the location inside a warehouse or something, but in this circumstance he may not have believed there was much risk - more so if he believed at all that she had been accidentally injured rather than the victim of foul play. I can also imagine wanting to confirm the iphone was actually where the app suggested before calling the police.

3) I know this was already discussed by some other members, but I don't think the filling of the gas tank several days before the unexpected trip is suspicious. You don't have to know when you will need the gas in order to get some; you get it because you know you will need it eventually. I think this was being read into a bit much, in my opinion.

This was a long-winded post to 'introduce' myself to the forums, I know! I also know some people favor certain theories or suspects (although I didn't think anyone had technically been named a suspect and thus all of this speculation is against the site's own rules on who can be sleuthed, is it not?) but I see certain things from a different perspective and wanted to offer that.

And if anyone who knows Jennifer reads this, please know that none of my theorizing/debates/questions outweigh my hope that this is resolved as positively and as soon as possible.

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Welcome Terrortag! I'm so happy that someone who may have a different perspective is posting. We need some new eyes, thoughts and theories so keep it coming!

For me personally, the quickness in him reporting her missing is no big deal. Nor is the gas tank thing. I think sometimes when we have no news we tend to pick apart the old news, just to keep the thread going.

The phone thing though....it's pretty common knowledge that "everybody" initially suspects the significant other when someone goes missing or is murdered, especially when they were the last to see them. IMO, He should have called LE and told them where the app said her phone was. If it turned out the app was incorrect it would have been no big deal. In fact, I think it would let LE know that he wants to be helpful but also knows he needs to be careful.
So, for me the question is what was his purpose for going there alone? Did he think maybe she would be there on the side of the road, alive and well and that he could talk her into coming home and everybody could just forget this whole "misunderstanding"? Or did he believe she might have been accidentally injured? If that's what he was thinking then why not call 911 as soon as the app told him where the phone was so that they could help her asap as opposed to him going there, finding her, and then calling 911 for help?

Great Missing Person Flyer on Jennifer Ramsaran's Facebook page.. 368 Shares 375 likes

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Help-Find-Jennifer-Ramsaran/485680108145366

Sharoneonta said:

I'd like to add that I know a lot of people commenting think that JR would never leave willingly and I have no doubt that she is a wonderful and loving mother. My thinking is that if there is a possibility that she could have been harmed by someone close to her, then it's also possible that they could have harmed her mental state. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors or in anyone's head. I mean no disrespect to her family, I'm just saying she may have felt she had no other choice.

I hope you, her family, find peace and answers soon.

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Ok random thought here and total speculation...

Is it possible that if in fact GR was having an affair as previously discussed, that JR harmed herself and out of guilt, etc. her body was removed to make it appear that she ran away???

Its been bothering me why he is so adamant about mentioning filling the van with gas. It raises a flag with me under 'too much information'. The deceptive side of me would say it was premeditated, he fills up the tank a day or two earlier, then drives her somewhere far away, comes back and leaves the car and the phone close by. Of course he already refilled the tank at an undisclosed location so it would look like the car had not gone far. It keeps the search local as a decoy when she was really left somewhere an hour or so away. This case just tickles every one of my spidey senses. This guy is as slippery as an eel IMO. If i were cops i would start check gas station videos in a 50 mile radius. Bet you see him alone topping off the van on the way home.

IMO the gas is mentioned to sell himself as a thoughtful, good guy.

I'm stewing about a lack of a press conference from our local LE about this case.
For goodness sake, it's becoming ridiculous, as if it hadn't already reached that stage of ridiculousness 5 weeks ago.
I'm ticked that we sit here, and do relatively nothing, because we *can't*.
Because they say we can't. Because in all of their infinite wisdom, they think shutting up a community and telling them to stay home is actually helping.
Took some time off from work last week to get some things done. Drove around lots of local places here and there. Just looking around mostly, but I did get a couple of hikes in. No other footprints in the snow beside the snow mobile trails. Some small animal tracks, that's about it.
I see police presence sporadically.
On the back roads here and there, mostly pulling over speeders.
Or sitting there. Waiting for any potential speeders.
I see a few cars parked at the station.
And I wonder why they're not combing the back roads.
It's broad daylight after all.
Stopped at one of the local diners today. Praying for a miracle, people were saying.
Got my hair cut 20 miles away today, in one of those "no lines, no waiting places."
The hairdresser didn't even know about the case, let alone Jennifer's name.
The private detective who is helping with this case has said that in all of his years of experience, he's never *once* seen a case where a press conference wasn't called.
No private searches because we're going to contaminate evidence, they say.
Like GR did by conveniently finding the phone himself? Okay, perhaps.
Someone here, or on the Help Find JR page said it best when he said something to the effect of "Isn't some evidence better than no evidence?"
Even if I fully bought into the "no public searches" line of reasoning, because I partially do, I would say something, anything to the public, to make them aware of the fact that they're actually doing something behind the scenes.
The general vibe seems to be "Well, they must be doing all that they can."
How do we know? Do we give them blind faith just because they took an oath?
I'm getting the sinking feeling that they're just waiting, just like we are.
And that is sad.
<end of rant>

I'm listening to the scanner via here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193828&page=3 and they haven't done much in the hour that I've had it on - very quiet out there in Chenango County.

LivingJuicy said:

Clue, I think I confused you. I meant that the lady who left the comments claimed that JR's family contacted her - almost in attempts to get the site shut down.

No word from JR. I wish!

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Not your fault... I think I was reading into it... And had hopeful thoughts...

Thank you for clarifying!

:seeya:

krey said:

LOL! Clue's question, and the big surprised emoticon face, made me laugh! Just picturing her shock as she imagines that someone was in touch with JR.

Not trying to be innappropriate in any way, just wanted to share my giggle

ETA: it's mostly the emoticon that made me laugh

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Oh gosh... I LOVE when I have an excuse to use the "gasp" emoticon....

and my question probably reminded you of kids that hope they heard a question one way... But know they did NOT hear it correctly... Like....

"We aren't having homework for the rest of the year?" lease:

"No, Johnny... We are not having homework tomorrow, Friday." :nono:

Jilllian said:

I'm stewing about a lack of a press conference from our local LE about this case.

<end of rant>

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Snipped.........

Jillian, any chance of getting local TV or News interested. Maybe emails asking whats going on, LE haven't told us anything and we could have a monster in the area.......that type of thing.

I don't think LE are going to let anything out unless they're pushed to do so.

Sharoneonta said:

IMO the gas is mentioned to sell himself as a thoughtful, good guy.

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This is the way I interpreted GR's sharing this info.... That he was such a caring husband that he filled the gas tank for her....

I am interested in reading all the other theories, though, too!

JMO

I'm going to call some of the Albany TV stations tomorrow.

sleepinoz said:

Snipped.........

Jillian, any chance of getting local TV or News interested. Maybe emails asking whats going on, LE haven't told us anything and we could have a monster in the area.......that type of thing.

I don't think LE are going to let anything out unless they're pushed to do so.

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BBM ---> GREAT POINT!!!!!

Don't citizens have a right to know what's going on in their community? Doesn't everyone who cares about Jennifer have a right to know that everything that can be done, IS being done? Isn't it common courtesy for LE to give these same people an update every now and then?

When Ivy was missing (I know I'm always going on about Ivy this, Ivy that, but she was my first thread here at WS, she was local to my area, and the whole thing seemed very bizarre just like this one), there was virtually no media coverage. So I took it upon myself to email our local paper and ask why there had been no coverage; they passed the message to the paper's crime reporter, and the very next day he put out a lengthy article about the case.

Point being, sleepinoz's suggestion could very well work. You local folks should start emailing all the papers, all the tv news stations, and ask why this hasn't gotten much coverage. Stress that it's become a huge public-interest story, people are worried, and the public wants to know what's going on.

LivingJuicy said:

So what's up with the new comment on the Help Find JR FB page? I mean, it seems like someone really wants the page shut down. Quoting that family has contacted her- makes no sense because I have personally seen JR's mother, sister, & cousin post on that actual page.

Last I checked, freedom of speech existed.

I just hate all of the ugliness that surrounds this. This can't be coming from family that loves and cares, at all.

jmo

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Hi all. My apologies as I cannot remember how to have myself verified on a case..so if someone wants to remind me, or point a mod in my direction, I'm happy to assist. For obvious reasons I am not going to be able to be a constant poster but will certainly help clear up what I can, when I can. Keep in mind that this is an investigation so anything that you may have heard, rumors...etc....regardless who may have stated it...I cannot comment or clarify everything due to it being an investigation.
I can comment on the Facebook pages, however. First, let me introduce myself as it is in my profile. I am the President and Founder of LostNMissing Inc. We are a 501c3 Nonprofit that has been brought aboard to manage the media (encouraging them to report, of course) as well as guiding the family through the process of the search and assisting with locating Jennifer. My user name has been this for as long as I can remember as it means "sweet lavender" in Italian. I've never tried to hide behind a screen name on Websleuths and any previous postings on other cases you will note I've always been open as to who I am.
We have been brought on to the case by Jennifer's husband, who contrary to what I've read here with some of the opinions I can assure you is beyond devastated. Let's also remember there are children in the home that also are of the age to read so I hope posters will keep that in mind.
We've opened a new website for Jennifer and while the link at present is a long url, it will soon be her www. her name . com For now the link is located: http://jenniferramsaran.blogspot.com/ I've added some clarifications on the Home page that you may wish to read. While I've had the opportunity to speak with Ganesh over the past two days, in depth, and also a number of friends...I have not, as yet, spoken with Jennifer's mom but that is being arranged. It's important that she also be aware of our services and programs and as a mother she is going to require support and we have a wide network of support services and other mom's that we can link her to as well.
Yes, we asked the group to remove the minor children's photographs from their Facebook page. Those children's photos do not need to be public. We don't know what happened to Jennifer and the minor children have enough trauma to deal with knowing their mom is missing. They don't need to see themselves publicized and have fears that they too may have something happen to them.
Yes, we asked that they remove "Official Site" because they are not the official site for information. Jennifer's husband is her next of kin and he holds the rights to sites and information. With that said, let me explain a bit further. We, at LNM, work with many nonprofits jointly with some of our cases...the site created and named "official site" is not a recognized 501c3 nonprofit with experience and more importantly with accountability for how they will be "leading" those on their site. Families are very vulnerable and many times will reach out to anyone and everyone who can help. That is not to say that those who are managing that site are problematic, however, they are (from what I can see) very new of only a couple weeks and already have had eye-brow raising concerns on how and what they are doing.
For one they have blocked friends and family, including our organization, from posting. If an organization was professional and knew what they were doing they would be bringing the family together...not stirring the pot to separate them. Not a single person within that group knows the family, friends or Jennifer herself. What we know is that they've already misguided Jennifer's mom. Giving them the benefit of the doubt due to their inexperience...I would say not maliciously, however, I personally have witnessed many families having to endure extreme duress from inexperienced grassroots organizations that refuse to take guidance from those who are already skilled and have been working in the field. That is unfair to the family. At the same time it was not wise to post photos of the children and that is further to show of the inexperience. We are certainly happy to work with this new grassroots group to assist them through procedures and common protocols, however, we do not work one on one with any organization that is not an already established company that has accountability. Therefore, we ...nor Jennifer's husband....will be providing any information that is not allowed to be public or that is part of the investigation to no other person(s) or organizations. Those that we would share information with would be those that are approved, accountable and with experience that law enforcement (who we also work for) approves. I also wanted to add that I am ALWAYS concerned when anyone forms a group and does not identify themselves. I specifically asked who is managing this page and when I receive "I am" as a response I question further accountability. Anyone that wants to inject themselves into the traumas of family, who are vulnerable, and who does not want to divulge their identity...well, that is a real problem in my opinion. I'm sure you all can understand and I hope that clears up any questions. We've just seen far too many problems with cases by those who may have good intentions but go astray or want to do things in a way that can have detrimental effects to the missing person and/or their family. You can read a bit about some of my views regarding Social Media sites here: http://lostnmissing.org/socialmedia/ Sorry this post is so long. Anyone that knows me knows I do not know how to make a long story short! I will pop back in tomorrow eve and see if I can answer any questions...again...some I will not be able to respond with an answer. Please let me know what needs done to be verified.

I'm very happy to see that this family finally has an advocate.