Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 2

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I agree. There should be photos of JR's car everywhere. It's quite possible that someone saw her car around the time she went missing being driven by someone other than JR herself. Maybe it was noticed in some out of the way place at some point. If a member of the public did see JR's car around the time she went missing hopefully they have already called in the tip.

The thanks button was not enough here!!! This is such a good point.
 
I agree, 100% with all that you wrote with an exception to your last line in how the public can assist. The problem that was brought to light was when groups of people were formulating a plan to conduct searches themselves. It is law enforcement who asked that NO organized searches by the public be conducted. The one and ONLY "do not do" given was...no organized search parties...let's leave that to the professionals.

No. This is highly inaccurate and misleading (and an agree to disagree situation). I personally spoke with Lieutenant Cobb and informed him of the search party that was formed, and the community's high interest in helping to find Jennifer. He said that although LE generally discourages searches, he stated that if we do go out, to make sure that everyone was aware of two important things. 1) if something suspicious is seen/found, don't touch anything. Immediately STOP and call 911; and 2) be safe. This search party was formed PRIOR to any specific newspaper report informing the public not to go out. Another inaccuracy you mentioned was "groups of people." It was one group of people, albeit very large, who planned to meet at a local firehouse, who's team donated the use of their building for the searchers' warmth, preparation of meals, resting, etc. I hope this clarifies things, as I was typing verbatim what the Lieutenant told me, as we discussed this.
 
100% agree with cluciano.

I wonder - and this might be pretty far-fetched - but I wonder if LE feared for the safety of the searchers? Maybe they feel like a certain potential perp is capable of freaking out if he feels like searchers are getting close to real evidence. Or maybe they fear that he might harm himself in such a situation. So they're trying to control the searches, and either not let him know where/when they're searching, and/or keep an eagle-eye on him during said searches, just in case.

Does that make any sense?
Yes, this does make sense.

Regarding the search, I'm wondering if the very quick and sudden media outcry against it, which was probably orchestrated by someone who specifically and very much wanted ceratin areas NOT to be searched, was due to this: if searchers went out to Area A and didn't find anything, they then go out to Area B. I wonder how likely it is for a perp to go to Area B, while the search is going on at Area A, retrieve evidence, and plant it in Area A, after the search team has moved from Area A to Area B. Or, the other way around. Just a thought...
 
Yes, this does make sense.

Regarding the search, I'm wondering if the very quick and sudden media outcry against it, which was probably orchestrated by someone who specifically and very much wanted ceratin areas NOT to be searched, was due to this: if searchers went out to Area A and didn't find anything, they then go out to Area B. I wonder how likely it is for a perp to go to Area B, while the search is going on at Area A, retrieve evidence, and plant it in Area A, after the search team has moved from Area A to Area B. Or, the other way around. Just a thought...

Ahhh, great thinking!!! You're very good at thinking outside the box :)

If I were in LE, here's what I'd do: I'd allow the searches, and watch a certain someone very very carefully before, during, and after the searches. It might be that he'd lead them straight to crucial evidence, and then bingo, case solved.
 
hello hello! :seeya:
i'm a new poster, but long time sleuther on a few different cases, this being one that just this week i've done some digging on. i'm going to tread lightly while i post until i get all of the rules & ettiquete down.

but here's my own (gut-wrenching because of those darling kids) honest opinion of what i think has happened. I think there was an accident. not a car accident. but maybe an argument (the gaming? the affair?) between spouses, that quickly turned into an escalated accident (again i'm unsure how much i am allowed to elaborate).

i think guilt are huge factors playing into how a certain party is reacting with the OVER HYPING declaration of innocence.

I think confusion, worry & maybe just simply the unknown of all of this uncertanity surrounding their daughter/sibling going missing in the first place.... maybe even its the personality or nauture of her family, to simply follow by the rules (NOT meant as a bad thing in any regards), but to be fully trusting to LE that they are doing everything that they can to solve this case.

but what i do feel is (of course) MOO is that this is not as cut & dry as a stop, drop & leave case. Just from the few pictures of JR that i've seen via social media, she was a very close & loving Mom to her kids. Though i would absolutely be ELATED to learn sooner rather than later, that she just needed some time away to figure things out or clear her head, etc.

hopefully to someone i made some kind of sense? :blushing: or :silly:

Welcome to Websleuths! Good to have you join us and look forward to hearing your thoughts here.
:welcome4:
 
Well if there was any evidence out there, the perp knows by now that no one found it so he/she probably went back and retrieved it.
 
100% agree with cluciano.

I wonder - and this might be pretty far-fetched - but I wonder if LE feared for the safety of the searchers? Maybe they feel like a certain potential perp is capable of freaking out if he feels like searchers are getting close to real evidence. Or maybe they fear that he might harm himself in such a situation. So they're trying to control the searches, and either not let him know where/when they're searching, and/or keep an eagle-eye on him during said searches, just in case.

Does that make any sense?

But wouldn't they tell the family that, or something to put the family's minds at ease? I get the impression that the family hasn't been given much of any indication that LE has their sights on any suspect or person of interest, or much of any idea where Jennifer might be.

I know LE wants to protect their case so they'll be very careful about how much information they share with the family. It seems to me that LE would have to tell the family SOMETHING concrete though. That would make the family feel like LE is getting closer to either finding Jennifer, or finding more evidence that will lead to her. Jennifer has been missing so long now and I'm sure her family wants to be sure that everything that can be done is being done to find her. Discouraging them from conducting searches because it MIGHT destroy evidence is probably not the best way to handle the situation, in my opinion. JMO, MOO
 
Well if there was any evidence out there, the perp knows by now that no one found it so he/she probably went back and retrieved it.

Unless they have surveillance on him, and he knows it......?
 
But wouldn't they tell the family that, or something to put the family's minds at ease? I get the impression that the family hasn't been given much of any indication that LE has their sights on any suspect or person of interest, or much of any idea where Jennifer might be.

I know LE wants to protect their case so they'll be very careful about how much information they share with the family. It seems to me that LE would have to tell the family SOMETHING concrete though. That would make the family feel like LE is getting closer to either finding Jennifer, or finding more evidence that will lead to her. Jennifer has been missing so long now and I'm sure her family wants to be sure that everything that can be done is being done to find her. Discouraging them from conducting searches because it MIGHT destroy evidence is probably not the best way to handle the situation, in my opinion. JMO, MOO

I'm sure every state has different laws but this got me thinking..

In the case of Sierra Lamar (god rest her soul,) if I remember correctly, LE was watching the suspect very closely prior to his arrest, all the while posting pictures of what they were looking for in terms of vehicle, etc.

I don't think the suspect knew he was being followed nor that Sierra's mom was aware of their plan.

I could be off but I hope I'm right. It gives me hope that someone is being watched and an arrest is looming.
 
I'm still boggled by the lack of support from the family and friends - no massive push to get her info out there, no vigil, no reward, no plea for her return, no plea for information from anyone that might know what happened....

I just ran across the Vicky Moon Erickson thread and then looked at the Find Victoria Moon fb page that was set up by friends....she's only been missing DAYS and their action is massive compared to what's been done for Jennifer.
 
http://lostnmissing.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Jennifer-Ramsaran-36-MISSING-New-Berlin-NY-11Dec2012-Missing-Poster.jpg

Jennifer-Ramsaran-36-MISSING-New-Berlin-NY-11Dec2012-Missing-Poster.jpg

Not a criticism of the poster, but I find this part unusual:
"Jennifer's husband is fully co-operating with police officials"

Is that sort of info. usually included in missing posters? I thought they usually just include pics and info to help locate the person. Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?
 
Lavanda,
It isn't the website that you personally made that is awful at all. I appreciate your campaign for all missing persons.

What made me uncomfortable was all of the "clarifications."
IMO, these are not actual facts, they are merely what Ganesh has advised. I find that as a stranger to him, it seemed very biased that he is not even being considered a suspect, which is why I asked if he has been cleared. The majority of the clarifications listed on the page seemed very defensive and almost implied to the reader that they were wrong for having a different opinion. Things such as ..."don't believe everything you read or hear online or in the media. It is not always factual." Was GR really accounted for the day and/or the night prior to JR being reported missing? Or is GR just stating that? I haven't read that anywhere in MSM.

I agree that media and social network is not always fact based. With that said, I don't know that GR has been 100% honest. Lavanda, there have been a lot of bizarre things that have occured which forces one to at least WONDER if he could of harmed her. I don't know what happened to JR but I do know that the silence is very frustrating.

No vigil? Fine, that's a family decision but I feel sad that nothing has been set up thus far for JR.

No press conference because of no breaking news? What about the breaking news that a mother is missing? There was never a press conference.

GR has stated himself that JR would never leave.

Lavanda, since you are verified, I have a few questions - if you could answer any, it would be much appreciated!

Were bags found in JR's car to indicate she at least made it to a mall?
Are you working with her family (mother, father, etc.) or only with GR?
You stated in a previous post that you were going to talk to GR about posting about his phone, which you said would clear up the confusion - can you elaborate?
Have the phone records been received yet?


Just a few to start this thread up. The silence makes me sad.


Thank you. Point well made regarding what you felt about website. Please do remember it is still a work in progress and I am still tweaking and will take some of what you wrote in consideration.
Even though verified here, as you know some answers cannot be given due to the investigative processes...unfortunately the phone is one of them. (her phone and what surrounded the actual finding of it)...as for phone records I don't believe that portion is something that will be divulged to anyone, not even family. Not until they are received and reviewed and many times with investigations the actual family do not learn of updates until a few hours prior to it being given to the media. So you can imagine as you and others are frustrated with waiting ....what the entire family is going through. As for our representation we are representing Jennifer, GR and the children. Naturally Jenn as we want her located...and of course, safely. I have introduced myself to her father who was very kind and offered my support and that of my organization to all of his family...As a parent I cannot imagine their pain. As one who works with parents....their pain is as real as GR's, the children an all of them. I wouldn't wish something like this on anyone...anywhere. Jenn' sister has registered her with CUE and with Kevin, a PI....so invariably Jennifer is getting a lot of support from all sides.
Many families decline candlelight vigils for the same reason as GR. It's too somber and too reminiscent of someone who has passed an he wants his children to maintain hope...an he himself, the same.
As for press conferences, those are only called upon by the police and or , in some cases, the DA when a huge break through transpires. Naturally no breakthrough so they have not called for any press conferences.
Regarding press interviews? Yes..we are going to be making contacts with a number of media outlets for GR to do an interview publicly IF he is given the ok by law enforcement. If they advise him to not do interviews...we will not organize. Should have that known sometime on Monday.
 
Not a criticism of the poster, but I find this part unusual:
"Jennifer's husband is fully co-operating with police officials"

Is that sort of info. usually included in missing posters? I thought they usually just include pics and info to help locate the person. Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?

We revised the poster today. Yes. I felt that was extremely important to have placed on the poster. Absolutely. We want people to look for a living Jennifer. Considering we came into the case nearly a month after missing I made the decision to include that due to numerous beliefs that many invariably feel, automatically, as it pertains to a missing wife and a husband "the last to see her." So yes...very customary with our organization. Many do not put "circumstance" on posters...we started this about 6 years ago with hoping to capture more interest to get those to read them...as well as using multiple photographs.
JenniferRamsaran36MISSING-NewBerlinNY-11Dec2012-MissingPoster.jpg
 
I'm still boggled by the lack of support from the family and friends - no massive push to get her info out there, no vigil, no reward, no plea for her return, no plea for information from anyone that might know what happened....

I just ran across the Vicky Moon Erickson thread and then looked at the Find Victoria Moon fb page that was set up by friends....she's only been missing DAYS and their action is massive compared to what's been done for Jennifer.

We've only been on the case a few days. Please bear with us. We are at the organizing stages. A reward is not necessary at this time. It will be when the media goes away. Her husband has been making many pleas for her return...even I noticed that before I was contacted. A vigil is not for everyone. We have many families who do not hold their first vigil until the missing loved one has been gone a year. We've had other families who've become very distraught when complete strangers hold a vigil for their missing when they did not want to have one. A vigil is a "touchy" situation for some...and especially when children involved. Each families needs are separate. Each person unique, each reaction , action and inaction's should never be a measurement of what one is feeling or as a true measure of guilt or innocence.
 
We revised the poster today. Yes. I felt that was extremely important to have placed on the poster. Absolutely. We want people to look for a living Jennifer. Considering we came into the case nearly a month after missing I made the decision to include that due to numerous beliefs that many invariably feel, automatically, as it pertains to a missing wife and a husband "the last to see her." So yes...very customary with our organization. Many do not put "circumstance" on posters...we started this about 6 years ago with hoping to capture more interest to get those to read them...as well as using multiple photographs.

Thanks for clearing that up.
 
We've only been on the case a few days. Please bear with us. We are at the organizing stages. A reward is not necessary at this time. It will be when the media goes away. Her husband has been making many pleas for her return...even I noticed that before I was contacted.

~respectfully snipped for space

BBM -- Personally, I haven't seen this at all - and like all of us here, I've been following this case pretty closely. I haven't seen a single instance where GR has pleaded for Jennifer to return. And if I'm not seeing it, how could Jennifer possibly see it?? If she's out there somewhere, but not logging into her facebook account, then how could she it?? That's if, in fact, he's pleading for her return via his fb page, which is mostly set to friends only - giving him the benefit of the doubt, based on what you're saying, that's the only place I can think of that he'd be pleading for her return. Publicly, the message is definitely not getting out there. JMO.
 
~respectfully snipped for space

BBM -- Personally, I haven't seen this at all - and like all of us here, I've been following this case pretty closely. I haven't seen a single instance where GR has pleaded for Jennifer to return. And if I'm not seeing it, how could Jennifer possibly see it?? If she's out there somewhere, but not logging into her facebook account, then how could she it?? That's if, in fact, he's pleading for her return via his fb page, which is mostly set to friends only - giving him the benefit of the doubt, based on what you're saying, that's the only place I can think of that he'd be pleading for her return. Publicly, the message is definitely not getting out there. JMO.

BBM

Me neither krey. Not one single plea for JR's return by GR have I seen and I've been following this case from the very beginning.

IMO
 
The great thing about WS, the WWW, and the US of A- everyone is entitled to their own opinion. We are also free to use whatever services we desire, as well as any number of social media outlets, newspapers, groups, forums, and investigators.

If certain ideas and theories are contrary to our beliefs, we are free to express that.

Many good people with good intentions try to help others who have no voice. Most WS members put much thought into every post, and are also members of communties, non-profit groups, and/or have professsional expertise. Folks have their own reasons for becoming verified or not.

Of course, having a gut feeling or an idea does not require a license, affliation, or a college degree. One should not feel "less than" for expressing their feelings- which are as valid as anyone else's; no matter what their background.

Silence is a result of the feeling of being put down. Silence benefits the dominant, the aggressive, and the criminal. Intimidation is akin to bullying and causes fear purposely- trying to silence another's beliefs with force.

Shaming or blaming others for assumed "inexperience" attempts to make one person, group, idea, or opinion superior to another. Life has provided expert experience to draw from for most.

Jennifer's father found her van, and her husband found her phone- and I have not heard that either has SAR experience.

There is great blocking software available- as well as simply turning off internet access when children are viewing things that are inappropriate.

Due to the cutbacks in almost every LE in the country, concerned citizens are needed more than ever to provide assistance, information, and comfort. Community policing is vital to maintaing a positive place for all to live.

I absolutely love this post and all the more reason that I love you, momrids6!:blowkiss:
 
First thing that popped out at me was the wording on the poster about the husband. Very very strange.
 
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