CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

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sillybilly said:
Bin thinkin' again .. hate when that happens


When a Will is done by a lawyer, the original is usually kept in the office vault. When a person does their own LWT, they are well advised to notify their Executor where the original can be found in their home, or possibly even give the original Will to the Executor (they're going to end up with it in the long run anyway). What if there was a more recent Will leaving some serious $$ and that fab new Camaro to PK? The Executor would either have the old Will in their possession, or at least knew that AG kept her Will in the house. Spend a couple of days rummaging around through the clutter, find the new Will, trash it, and by gar ... you've still got all the goodies you were entitled to under the old Will.

(sorry that this post kind of lands out of the blue)
Click to expand...

Not really out of the blue - I guess this is the kind of thing I mean by "time in the house" and your account is a very strong scenario and well articulated. Another possibility would be if she was leaving money to charity any of the actors could have gotten irate felt they had to act and fast. I have a feeling we are circling closer and closer around ....the truth..... not quite there yet though.
 
Within a week of finding AG's body, Hamilton LE announced they had found an executor - turned out AG's Will was found in her purse inside the home - the purse she was said to have carried around with her all the time with her important papers in it.

I don't get Audrey doing that - going for groceries, coffee, the vet etc, with important papers on her? Papers that could be stolen if her purse was snatched? From a woman who scored 100% for a computer virus course?

Maybe we should ask for that soup recipe.
 
Woodland said:
Within a week of finding AG's body, Hamilton LE announced they had found an executor - turned out AG's Will was found in her purse inside the home - the purse she was said to have carried around with her all the time with her important papers in it.

I don't get Audrey doing that - going for groceries, coffee, the vet etc, with important papers on her? Papers that could be stolen if her purse was snatched? From a woman who scored 100% for a computer virus course?

Maybe we should ask for that soup recipe.
Click to expand...

She may have used one purse for important papers, but then have a different one for shopping. That's what I do.
 
Quoted from Woodland:

<<< Maybe we should ask for that soup recipe. >>>


:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:
 
I also don't see someone as careful and intelligent as Audrey carrying around important papers in her purse!

Did she have a wall safe in her house? If so, perhaps Audrey grabbed the important papers and was trying to make a run for it when she was attacked and murdered.

:twocents:
 
No_Stone_Unturned said:
I also don't see someone as careful and intelligent as Audrey carrying around important papers in her purse!

Did she have a wall safe in her house? If so, perhaps Audrey grabbed the important papers and was trying to make a run for it when she was attacked and murdered.

:twocents:
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Repeating myself but I vote for the purse being deliberately left to be found - and WL's reminder that the will was in it as well....well...... I would guess the important paper theory is coming from LV. Doubt Audrey did that sounds like more hooey.

I am aware of a small group of women in that area who pulled this kind of caper on the elderly including befriending them, being trusted to be the executor - there were suspicious deaths involved. This appears to be way beyond that in brutality.

Just thinking of the coat which troubles me seems to be at loggerheads with A being held hostage. BUT she was elderly, not sure about heating in the house possible she was tortured/injured then getting chilled, allowed to put a coat on. OK I am getting a bit too speculative.
 
Woodland said:
Within a week of finding AG's body, Hamilton LE announced they had found an executor - turned out AG's Will was found in her purse inside the home - the purse she was said to have carried around with her all the time with her important papers in it.

I don't get Audrey doing that - going for groceries, coffee, the vet etc, with important papers on her? Papers that could be stolen if her purse was snatched? From a woman who scored 100% for a computer virus course?

Maybe we should ask for that soup recipe.
Click to expand...

ITA re carrying all those papers around. Besides, who knew what she normally had in her purse?

Anyone recall where we got the rumour about the purse and important papers?

I don't recall it ever being specified that the Will was found in Audrey's purse (only reference to important documents or papers). Also, someone mentioned earlier that her purse was found on the kitchen counter ... I don't know where those details came from either .. certainly not MSM and in his article "Who Killed Audrey Gleave", JW refers to the purse issue as rumour:

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/596070--who-killed-audrey-gleave

Googling further, i can only find what I recall ... that Jan 4 Sgt Hrab said an Executor to her Will was found, no mention of the Will or purse or where the items may have been found:

http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/article/308663--a-complicated-vicious-killing
 
I don't know where the notion of Audrey's Will being in her purse came from either. I only recall that "important papers" were in her purse.

What could "important papers" mean? Her car registration, driver's licence, money, phone numbers, etc. Maybe the RTO dayplanner I mentioned earlier? Vet info?

For me, the purse and its contents aren't really all that important right now to solving this murder. What IS important - whose fingerprints were on the purse?

:twocents:
 
To me, important papers are documents - Wills, Insurance Policies etc - things one would keep in a safe. Hrab found the executor, the executor didn't come forward to Hrab as the executor claimed she didn't know she was the executor until Hrab told her.

I wish we had the previous threads back to find the initial source - many articles will be unavailable now.
 
sillybilly said:
Not sure who you are referring to dw, but we certainly did question the very rapid sale of Audrey's home. As previously posted, there was at least one MSM article on Feb 8 wherein neighbours reported the property had already been sold in an estate sale and that lights were on, and this was before LV was officially authorized as the Executor by the "Certificate of Appointment of Trustee" signed by the Registrar on Feb 22.

Mind you, the fact that LV had a copy of the Will appointing her Executor, she was probably able to enter into the Agreement of Purchase and Sale on behalf of the Estate, pending official documentation, and the Agreement could have given permission to the purchasers to access the property even before a closing date.

Really does boggle the brain (ok .. my brain) that a purchaser was found so rapidly for a property where such a horrific crime had occurred.

JMO
Click to expand...

The only people I could see buying this house on such short notice would be those with an 'attachment' to the house. The only people I could think of that would fall in this camp would be Audrey's ex (Audrey promised him she'd never sell it) and PK (who worked hard around the property).

I would think anyone else would be too creeped out.
 
A married couple bought the house from LV - both dentists. Unfortunately this is in a thread that isn't here.
 
Other examples of "important papers":

- University papers/theses
- University marks
- University degrees
- teaching degrees
- letters of reference from teaching/from various Universities
- personal letters
 
Been thinking of the rapid timeline:

- Audrey is found murdered
- quick autopsy
- rapid cremation
- house cleaned out rapidly (by LV "and friends" - do we know who these "friends" are?)
- Camaro was hauled away by LE (do we know what happened to the car?)
- house is sold!

For me, that's an awful lot to have happened in such a rapid timeline. It *seems* as though there was very little time for the grieving process. And that causes me great sadness.......
 
Woodland said:
To me, important papers are documents - Wills, Insurance Policies etc - things one would keep in a safe. Hrab found the executor, the executor didn't come forward to Hrab as the executor claimed she didn't know she was the executor until Hrab told her.

I wish we had the previous threads back to find the initial source - many articles will be unavailable now.
Click to expand...

Hmm, the executor is usually the first person to know they are the executor, either because they have a copy of the Will and/or have been told by the testator. And in this case, not only executor, but sole beneficiary.

After a 30 year friendship, you'd think AG would have dropped that little tidbit to a trusted friend over coffee ... "oh btw, you're my executor and you're getting all my stuff".
 
LV saying she didn't know she was AG's executor and sole beneficiary at the time of AG's death struck me as odd - which is why I wanted a copy of the Will so badly.

Then, LV claimed she didn't know the witnesses to AG's signature in the Will, yet one of the witnesses lived nearby LV - an elderly woman by my research and what appeared to be her personal care giver.

Doesn't work for me.
 
No_Stone_Unturned said:
I don't know where the notion of Audrey's Will being in her purse came from either. I only recall that "important papers" were in her purse.

What could "important papers" mean? Her car registration, driver's licence, money, phone numbers, etc. Maybe the RTO dayplanner I mentioned earlier? Vet info?

For me, the purse and its contents aren't really all that important right now to solving this murder. What IS important - whose fingerprints were on the purse?

:twocents:
Click to expand...

bbm


I'm totally with you on that one N_S_U - the notion of the will being in the purse, which might or might not have been as front and centre as we're all, I think, kind of hoping it was, to bear out the theory of a money motive.

So, yes, IF :twocents: the purse was as prominent a detail as we're thinking, and IF it was "full" of important papers, my questions are:
  1. Important papers that would be strange to carry around outside of a safe place unless needed for official interactions of some kind (e.g., passport renewal, legal matters)? Or ones that would not be all that remarkable to be taken everywhere by a senior with Eastern European heritage - as someone else pointed out not long ago?
  2. If the will was indeed done using a kit, and possibly an online kit, would it not make sense that LE would have 'located' it on one of Audrey's computers, and it would not be in the purse anyway?
  3. The purse was discovered and handled by whom - only when investigation was under way or before that (i.e., fingerprints left by Audrey only or others)?

:moo:

Also, pondering the idea that LV was surprised to find out she was the executor. Could this have something to do with Audrey's choice of witnesses, and further to that, could that be linked to the comment about Audrey having friends LV was unaware of?

STILL boggled that the house was sold and occupied in such a short time, attachment or not. If attached parties, the thought of a lurking assailant and the fact of the murder having taken place there would keep me up at night (maybe that's why the lights were on all the time???). If not attached, the swift sale - especially if through word-of-mouth channels - is curious also.

Each to their own, I suppose.:sheesh::no:
 
The Will has signatures and initials so must have been printed.
 
Woodland said:
The Will has signatures and initials so must have been printed.
Click to expand...

:doh: Right on, WL... Guess that got past my flight of fancy:blushing:

Okay, hard copy of will, witnessed, initialed, signed - was located by Hrab, I guess(?)

:waitasec: Is LV's signature / initial on the hard copy?

Still, if LV was not advised, but 'discovered' to be executrix, and the witnesses were unknown to her, it corresponds somewhat to the comment about Audrey having nearby friends that she hadn't told LV about, IMO. ITA that it would be awfully weird that somewhere in the course of a 30-year friendship, private person notwithstanding, Audrey would not have said something about the will to LV. Especially considering that PK mentioned that he and Audrey had conversed, during the purge, to whatever extent about what she wanted done after her death (would appreciate more detail there, alas).

And yes, the speed of the whole process around autopsy, cremation, estate handling, and sale of the house just doesn't really add up.:moo:
 
LV's signature does not appear in the Will.

Why mention to the press your good friend, who had just been brutally murdered, had another friend in your neighborhood that you didn't know about?

That's the last thing I would think to mention - what importance would it have to a murder that needs solving?
 
The longer we're at this crime (two years and counting), the less it makes sense. The statements by the 'people who knew Audrey' seem to make less and less sense as we sit here outlining the whole thing!

:furious:
 
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