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sean62185 said:
There is something bigger here than enviroment.
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<snipped for brevity>

You originally stated that I am suggesting environment is the cause. That is not true, and in fact, I am one who wholly believes in the frontal lobe research to explain the CAUSE of psychopathy. Causes and contributing factors are not one and the same. I thought I clarified this when I replied that, in that particular case, I felt that environment was a contributing factor (I did NOT say it was a cause).

The same article you linked to in fact includes reference to environment being a contributing factor:

He said not all monsters are born and that many are made worse by their environments on their roads to evil
Click to expand...

No, you didn&#8217;t say anybody was a psychopath. The studies that you are referring to however, wrt neurological issues within the frontal lobe, are generally referenced in accepted scholarly articles on psychopathy:

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&sclient...10,d.aWc&fp=3ed500c6ac5d7bda&biw=1280&bih=600

Your accusation that I implied no aboriginal people were capable of doing this is just wrong. I had originally said I thought we&#8217;d be hard-pressed to come up with a Canadian aboriginal serial killer (because in over 10 years of research, I was not familiar with one). Otto found one, and in reading about that ONE case, it stood out to me that, at a time when a child was in a critical stage of social development, he was in fact removed from his cultural setting which happened to be aboriginal. IOW, had that child been born with the frontal lobe / neurological issues (the CAUSE of psychopathy) and not had the stressor of being removed from his cultural setting (the CONTRIBUTING FACTOR of environment, not to mention abandonment issues as a whole other ball game), maybe those stressors would have left him simply a psychopathic personality, not a psychopath who went on to murder.

And please don&#8217;t play the race card with me. I am one of the least bigoted people on this planet. I am in no way relating the propensity to be a psychopathic serial killer to RACE (white, black, pink or purple), only relating to and considering stressors that may have exacerbated the decline of that one particular individual into his status as a psychopathic serial killer &#8230; one of which was his removal from his cultural identity (no different than had he been a white child taken out of his cultural setting and raised by someone of another culture).

And yes, a lot of people grow up in the same environment and don&#8217;t turn out to be serial killers. Maybe they were born with a fully functioning frontal lobe that continued to develop in a normal fashion. IOW, the root CAUSE of psychopathy didn&#8217;t exist, so therefore the same environmental issues (whatever CONTRIBUTING FACTORS) would not have had the same affect on them.

How do I explain the Dahmers, 3 guys 1 hammer, Cody Legebokoff. etc with their normal childhoods and normal families? Obviously without KNOWING the neurological functionings of their brains as it relates to frontal lobe abnormalities (the CAUSE), and not knowing all details / circumstances of their upbringing, both of us are at a disadvantage without having all the answers, and therefore neither of us is really qualified to provide a fully informed opinion.

MOO
 
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2013/04/...oherty-in-trial-for-five-sexual-assault-cases

"The 32-year-old woman, who cannot be identified under a court-ordered publication ban, testified she was working as a prostitute on 118 Avenue on Jan. 22, 2011, when a man she now knows as Oliver James Doherty picked her up.

She testified he suggested they go to a south-side motel, but then said he needed to go to his office to get the money. Instead he took her to a home in Leduc County.

Once there, she said Doherty &#8211;- whom she described as a &#8220;mean guy&#8221; and &#8220;evil looking&#8221; &#8211;- punched her, choked her twice, forced her to perform a sex act and then raped her.

&#8220;I thought I was going to die,&#8221; she said after telling court she blacked out at one point. &#8220;I was scared. I was crying.&#8221;

The woman also testified that Doherty was saying &#8220;weird&#8221; things during the sex attack, including telling her she should tell other sex trade workers on 118th Avenue that &#8220;the Hells Angels were taking over.&#8221;
 
sillybilly said:
Your accusation that I implied no aboriginal people were capable of doing this is just wrong. I had originally said I thought we’d be hard-pressed to come up with a Canadian aboriginal serial killer (because in over 10 years of research, I was not familiar with one). Otto found one, and in reading about that ONE case, it stood out to me that, at a time when a child was in a critical stage of social development, he was in fact removed from his cultural setting which happened to be aboriginal. IOW, had that child been born with the frontal lobe / neurological issues (the CAUSE of psychopathy) and not had the stressor of being removed from his cultural setting (the CONTRIBUTING FACTOR of environment, not to mention abandonment issues as a whole other ball game), maybe those stressors would have left him simply a psychopathic personality, not a psychopath who went on to murder.
Click to expand...
<snip & bbm>

Sorry to quote self, but it was too late to edit .. the above bolded part should have read:

"maybe NOT having those stressors would have left him simply a psychopathic personality, not a psychopath who went on to murder."

I really should go to bed earlier :eek:fftobed:
 
dotr said:
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2013/04/...oherty-in-trial-for-five-sexual-assault-cases
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<rsbm>

re "Oliver James Doherty" ..

During my sleuthing over the past week I was rummaging through FB circles and came across the name James D .. it was significant to me because I went to school with a guy by that name and often wondered what happened to him. Based on age, I know it's not the same guy, but the name really popped out at me for that reason.

Now for the life of me, I can't recall which case, which "circle" I was in when I came across it (possibly Shannon Collins or Kim Cruickshank, Shawn Wruck?).
 
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2013/06/...ople-allegedly-trying-to-lure-underage-girls/

"Cops are cautioning the public against any kind of vigilante action against a pair of Edmonton men who were outed by an Internet video for allegedly trying to lure 14-year-old girls for sex.

Bob Andrews, the head of ALERT&#8217;s Integrated Child Exploitation Unit, said investigators were first contacted by the group Anonymous last month.

A video appeared Saturday by a group claiming to be Anonymous, who said they&#8217;ve encountered numerous Edmontonians who have tried to make plans for sex with underage boys and girls via various social networking websites"

Bbm
 
http://aptn.ca/pages/news/2013/08/01/another-indigenous-woman-mysteriously-dies-in-toronto/

Video included.
bbm
"Three Aboriginal women have died in Toronto in a suspicious manner in recent months"

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...ll_spurs_pointed_questions_from_mourners.html

"Last Sunday evening, a memorial vigil was held for Laboucan-McLean near where her body was found. Among those in attendance were environmental activist and actor Tantoo Cardinal and author Naomi Klein.

Laboucan-McLean&#8217;s death marks the third mysterious death of a young aboriginal woman in Toronto in recent months.

In April, Cheyenne Fox, 20, died after falling from a 24-storey Don Mills condo. Despite calls for an inquest into her death, her father John Fox was told &#8220;within hours&#8221; by Toronto police that it was a suicide.

In May, Terra Gardner, 26, was struck and killed by a train at near Yonge St. and Summerhill Ave. She had complained of death threats after being compelled to testify as a witness in a murder trial. Police told reporters they did not suspect foul play.

Last month, Canada&#8217;s premiers demanded that Ottawa hold an inquiry into the escalating number of missing or murdered First Nations women, estimated at 600 over the past 30 years.

Statistics Canada reports that aboriginal women and girls are three times more likely to experience violence than any other population in Canada while, according to Amnesty International, First Nations women are five to seven times more likely to die from that violence".
 
Adding these unusual recent Toronto deaths just in case there is a link ...


http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...ll_spurs_pointed_questions_from_mourners.html

"Two weeks after Bella Laboucan-McLean, 25, fell off of a 31st-storey balcony her northern Alberta Lubicon Cree family has turned to the media for clues into what Toronto police have deemed her &#8220;suspicious death.&#8221;

&#8220;What the family is asking for is that anybody with information to come forward,&#8221; said her sister Melina Laboucan-Massimo, on the phone from Alberta Friday. &#8220;Any information, no matter how big or small, is important because right now we have more questions than we have answers. We know that something went terribly wrong that night and we are asking for truth and for justice for Bella.&#8221;

Laboucan-Massimo said that her younger sister, a recent graduate of Humber College&#8217;s fashion program, was with unnamed persons on the night of her death in the wee hours of July 20.



A neighbour overhead noises, and then a loud bang at 4:55 a.m. Police arrived on the scene immediately but had no way to know from which unit she had fallen. The people with whom she was with did not call in the incident until that afternoon. They allege they had not noticed her fall"
 
http://aptn.ca/pages/news/2013/05/1...ain-in-toronto-was-a-witness-in-murder-trial/

"By Kenneth Jackson
APTN National News
A First Nation woman who was struck and killed by a freight train in Toronto Tuesday night was also a witness in a murder investigation and had allegedly been receiving death threats about testifying according to people close to her.

Terra Gardner is believed to have been hit on the tracks near Young Street and Summerhill Avenue at about 10:25 p.m. close to a popular spot where people are known to drink by the tracks. Two other people are believed to have been with her at the time of her death.

Gardner had been receiving death threats and was being called a rat for providing information in the Toronto homicide of First Nations man Leo Buswa in 2010"

http://invisiblepeople.tv/blog/2011/09/terra-homeless-toronto-canada/

"I met Terra in Toronto, Canada. An outreach nurse who had been helping her connected us. Terra is a wonderful, gorgeous 25 year-old woman who has lived on the streets for 5 months.

Terra tells a very real story about life on the streets. She doesn&#8217;t like shelters because she was beat up in one, so she sleeps on the streets or in parks.

I hope Terra&#8217;s story will stay in your heart and mind as it has with me. After this interview we took her to get some food. She is intelligent and funny, she just needs some extra love and compassion to change her life"..
 
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwo...ng-investigated-hate-crime-thunder-bay-146797

bbm.

&#8220;It&#8217;s a hate crime against our community,&#8221; said Chief Peter Collins of the Fort William First Nation, which is adjacent to Thunder Bay. &#8220;This young woman has been through a very trying situation that compels us to do more to stop the violence against our women&#8230; We see that racism towards our people is still alive, and we remind our people to be vigilant. We also advise our people not to react violently to these acts... &#8221;

In a telephone interview, Christi Belcourt, representing the victim&#8217;s family, elaborated on the police report and a statement issued by the family. She said the attack began at around 9 p.m. on December 27, when the victim was walking to a store in the north end of the city. Two Caucasian men in their mid-30s pulled up alongside her in a green two-door sedan and began yelling at her, allegedly calling her a &#8220;dirty squaw&#8221; and other racially tinged profanities.

When she ignored them and walked faster, they reportedly began throwing things at her, including trash. She says the passenger then jumped out of the car and grabbed her by her hair&#8212;pulling her so violently she lost clumps of hair&#8212;and shoved her into back seat, where he sat on her and began beating her.

She tried to fight back, but was unable to escape as she was driven to a nearby wooded area, where she says she was brutally sexually assaulted, strangled and beaten.

During the attack the men allegedly told the victim it wasn&#8217;t the first time they had committed this type of crime and &#8220;it wouldn&#8217;t be the last.&#8221;

Read more at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwo...ng-investigated-hate-crime-thunder-bay-146797
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/10/04/parliament-hill-protest-aboriginal-women_n_4046142.html

bbm.


"Laurie Odjick, from the Quebec First Nations community of Kitigan Zibi, clutched an image of her daughter Maisy &#8212; missing since the fall of 2008 &#8212; as she described the importance of her cause.

"I love these gatherings because I get to meet other families who are going through the same things we are," Odjick said.

"We come here for strength."

The eighth annual gathering in Ottawa, known as the Sisters in Spirit vigil, was one of 216 held across the country and abroad, with other events taking place as far away as Australia, Malaysia and Peru."
 
http://www.cp24.com/news/un-officia...o-missing-murdered-aboriginal-women-1.1498100

" OTTAWA -- The federal government should set up a national inquiry into the "disturbing phenomenon" of missing and murdered aboriginal women, a senior UN rights official said Tuesday.

James Anaya, the UN special rapporteur on the rights of indigenous peoples, has spent the last nine days touring the country, talking to aboriginals and both federal and provincial government officials.

And while governments across Canada have pledged a number of steps to deal with the problem of missing aboriginal women, it's not enough, Anaya told a news conference in Ottawa as he wrapped up his visit.

"I have heard from Aboriginal Peoples a widespread lack of confidence in the effectiveness of those measures," Anaya said.

"I concur that a comprehensive and nationwide inquiry into the issue could help ensure a co-ordinated response and the opportunity for the loved ones of victims to be heard and would demonstrate a responsiveness to the concerns raised by the families and communities affected by this epidemic."

There has been strong pressure from aboriginal groups and some provinces for an inquiry into the disappearances, which some say run into the hundreds. The Native Women's Association of Canada estimates there have been more than 600 such cases in the last 20 years"

Read more: http://www.cp24.com/news/un-officia...ered-aboriginal-women-1.1498100#ixzz2hpFGujHs
 
Huge feature today !!

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/01/19/three_women_three_deaths_one_thing_in_common.html

" Toronto activist Audrey Huntley researches violent deaths of aboriginal women. Huntley, who is part Ojibwa, is upset with the lack of media coverage of the disappearance and murder of aboriginal women and is compiling a database to document the crimes.
By: Antonia Zerbisias Feature Writer, Published on Sun Jan 19 2014"

"Three beautiful young women, who all died brutal deaths, all in Toronto, all within three months of each other in 2013.

First there was Cheyenne Santana Marie Fox, 20, who dropped from a 24th-floor condo balcony in north Toronto on the evening of April 24.

Then, Terra-Janine Gardner, 26, who was killed by a freight train near Yonge St. and Summerhill Ave., late on May 14.

Finally, Bella Laboucan-McLean, 25, who fell to her death from the 31st-floor of a CityPlace condo in the early morning hours of July 20.

Their stories are different, yet tragically the same."
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...d-aboriginal-women-s-cases-reviewed-1.2508938

"The RCMP says it has completed a "comprehensive file review" of murdered and missing aboriginal women and girls within Mountie jurisdiction &#8212; more than 400 in all &#8212; and will continue to pursue outstanding cases.

The national police force has reviewed 327 homicide files and 90 missing-persons cases involving aboriginal females, say RCMP briefing notes obtained under the Access to Information Act.

The review represents the latest effort by the Mounties amid public concern about the perils faced by aboriginal women and allegations of police inaction.

A special parliamentary committee is holding hearings on the issue, and calls persist for a full-fledged national inquiry.
Native association working with RCMP

The Native Women's Association of Canada said Thursday it will give the RCMP its list of aboriginal women who may have met with violence or simply disappeared &#8212; but only names gleaned from public sources such as newspapers and posters"
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/missing-murdered-aboriginal-women-honoured-in-marches-1.2536337

""Here I am eight years later and there is still no sign of Tamara and there is still no sign of a lot of the other girls ... some have gone missing for decades. They are treated as they are disposable."

On Friday, Radek, of the Gitxsan and Wet'suwet'en First Nations, is hosting the first annual Memorial March for Murdered and Missing Aboriginal Women in Orillia, one of 20 confirmed citiies participating in this year's event.


The now national march started in 1991, after a woman was murdered on Powell Street, in Vancouver. Her name is not spoken today, to honour the wishes of her family.

The Women&#8217;s Memorial website says, &#8220;This woman&#8217;s murder in particular was the catalyst that moved women into action. Out of this sense of hopelessness and anger came an annual march on Valentine&#8217;s Day to express compassion, community, and caring for all women in Vancouver&#8217;s Downtown Eastside, Coast Salish Territories.&#8221;
 
Will post this info in 1 o 2 other locations on the forum - will start with this thread.

Compiled stats as of today in the new (much touted) RCMP National Database for Missing Persons in Canada. This was suppose to be up and running in 2013.

There are 554 missing adults listed (545 showing, however 1 is a duplicate and will be corrected next week).

Of the 554 people, 81 are missing aboriginals. Of that 81 people, 31 are missing aboriginal women from 5 provinces and 1 territory. So, 5.6% of the database is missing aboriginal women. We are nowhere near the 83 for this thread. Alberta elected to list 5 missing aboriginal women - 2 from Project Kare in 2004, 2 from 2007 and 1 from 2011.

Of the 50 aboriginal men missing, 15 are boating accidents or people that went through the ice, leaving 35 mysterious disappearances, or 6.4% of the listed missing people.

For sometime now there has been a call for a national inquiry into the problem of missing and murdered aboriginal women. Police data show 8% of homicides in Canada between 2004 and 2010 are aboriginal women who account for only 4% of the female population.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ry_for_murdered_missing_aboriginal_women.html

Citing police data, the report notes aboriginal women accounted for at least eight per cent of homicide victims in Canada between 2004 and 2010, despite accounting for only four per cent of the total female population in the country.

To me the biggest insult in this situation (and I am insulted by the lack of LE and government action) happened on Friday, when the CBC posted a picture from a rally in Oct 2013 calling for action - the picture is of 2 missing aboriginal teenage girls that went missing from Quebec together in 2008 - Maisy Odjick and Shannon Alexander.
Neither girl has rated a listing in the RCMP database. Quebec submitted 86 people for the national missing persons database, none are aboriginal.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/no-...y-in-mps-report-on-aboriginal-women-1.2563854

The database can be found here -

http://www.canadasmissing.ca/index-eng.htm

No one seems to be in charge yet many claim to be 'on the case'. Our Justice Minister Peter McKay is one of them. Here is a short video of his recent hissy fit in parliament, throwing papers on the floor when asked to produce, in writing, how the current government is handling the situation.
Seems to me, throwing the papers on the floor reflects what is being done about this horrid situation. I'm loathe to participate in giving him any notice, however his arrogance reflects the indifference, imo. Even Rofo doesn't do this.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Politics/ID/2440627859/

In summary, as of today, we have an indifferent government and indifferent RCMP who have claimed many times they are on top of the missing and murdered aboriginal situation. What I fear most is boys with serious issues with women and other problems, growing into men with bigger issues and choosing to prey on aboriginal women as their chances of being caught are slim to none. And they know it - courtesy of the RCMP, imo.

Have forwarded the stats, in more detailed breakdown, to the Minister of Status of Women, Kelly Leitch - I look forward to seeing what action she takes. Words will not do anything, anymore.

I must say though, I don't know why the Aboriginal people are not banding together to hold their own inquiry. And if they have a published database of missing and murdered women and/or men, I would like access to it.
 
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