Terrorist Attack at Boston Marathon #10 One Suspect Dead; One in Custody

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At that rate, Section 8 alone would come to $96,000. (If these numbers are off, Gov. Patrick, feel free to give the Herald the 500 pages you turned over to the Legislature so we can write a correction.)

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio...2013/04/carr_tsarnaevs_tab_just_the_beginning

It’s now been confirmed that the Tsarnaevs got Section 8 housing.

Let’s figure $800 a month in subsidies, over 10 years.

At that rate, Section 8 alone would come to $96,000. (If these numbers are off, Gov. Patrick, feel free to give the Herald the 500 pages you turned over to the Legislature so we can write a correction.)
 
IMO it is not feasible that these two walked so confidently thru the crowds with bombs in their backpacks without absolute knowledge that they were safe! They were not out to kill themselves. So, to have confidence that they were in control of detonating the bombs, there had to be prior practice. And lots of it!!

Also, remember they were driving around with another pressure cooker bomb in their car the night of the shootout, so they were really at ease with being around what they built. All of this points to prior knowledge and use in my mind.


They actually were out to kill themselves - TT ran openly at the police with a gun in a shoot out, and threw makeshift bombs that (apparently) hit himself as well. He was a suicide bomber and killer who just wasn't finished bombing and killing yet. I don't see any evidence at all that they had "absolute knowledge they were safe". I see way more evidence that they didn't expect to live past their rampage.

And anyway, how can you gain experience or practice "driving around with bombs"? I mean, no matter how many times you do it, there is always a first time, and they are always explosive, so the only explanation for freely loading and unloading them between cars and carrying them around in backpacks is that, like so many bombers, they weren't afraid to die.

Sure they could have practiced building and detonating pipe bombs in the woods or whereever. Tons of places for them to do that around here. I don't doubt at all that they practiced building the bombs, but I just don't think they tried or necessarily expected to live through the massacre.

The more I read about the other bombers (London, spain, etc) the more this sounds like the new wave of random terrorism. Cookbooks and kitchen tables and youtube videos and a sense of displacement from their homeland. Ugh.
 
Is there any way we can confine the social program opinion to the political thread? It really has not much to do with the bombing itself, and serves only to invite opinion on both sides. As we see from the Herald opinion piece, the side issue of social programs will be used to curry political favor with those who don't like them in general.

It should come as no surprise to folks elsewhere in the nation that we here in Mass (at least, the majority of us who continue to vote for politicians in favor of more generous social programs) like our social programs. We see them as the reason that we are one of the leading states when it comes to health, education, quality of life, and even in in the economic downturn, we do better than average. It rankles that outsiders will use the fact that the Tsarnaevs received aid as a reason to be more stingy with programs.

I've stopped posting on the thread because of this issue. I'd like to keep posting about the bombing, without having to keep reading partisan opinion pieces from Boston's right wing tabloid on every page. Maybe we can keep it to the political Pavillion, if you all really want to keep bemoaning how we here in Mass run our social programs?
 
Idea:
What if there was a protocol between organizations depending on which level first becomes alerted re: any suspicion of possible terrorist ties or concerns. With each agency being required to enter any alerts, inside information, criminal arrest re: the use of any explosives or threats against public officials or agencies into a universal data base.

If a name comes up between agencies or if a crime/arrest is relevant to possible terrorist or future terrorist activities or ties to suspicious persons then a team of investigators (one from each agency FBI, CIA, DHS, applicable local LE and if applicable the ATF) must gather and exchange any and all relevant info on the person in question.

In this case, the FBI and the CIA had warnings. They apparently did not warn Local LE about TT. If anyone had bothered to run a check on his finances/banking records or even his social media in 2012 then there would have been more than enough reason to keep a more watchful eye on him. (He was traveling back & forth to Russia/Daghastan (sp) while living off the dole, he was buying explosives, he was posting jihadist links, and growing increasingly more alienating and possibly alienated.)

I am still very curious as to why he was apparently never questioned by Waltham LE re: the triple murder case. As early as the funeral friends were questioning why he just suddenly disappeared from that circle of friends. Did no one go to detectives with their concerns over TT, who had referred to BM as his best friend, yet was nowhere to be found after the murders?
 
If it is true about a Saudi wanting in 2012 then the FBI flag on him from 2011 should have been reopened. 2 different countries warning you about the same person, then there's something there and you need to look into it again regardless of whether you found something or not the first time!


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Idea:
What if there was a protocol between organizations depending on which level first becomes alerted re: any suspicion of possible terrorist ties or concerns. With each agency being required to enter any alerts, inside information, criminal arrest re: the use of any explosives or threats against public officials or agencies into a universal data base.

If a name comes up between agencies or if a crime/arrest is relevant to possible terrorist or future terrorist activities or ties to suspicious persons then a team of investigators (one from each agency FBI, CIA, DHS, applicable local LE and if applicable the ATF) must gather and exchange any and all relevant info on the person in question.

In this case, the FBI and the CIA had warnings. They apparently did not warn Local LE about TT. If anyone had bothered to run a check on his finances/banking records or even his social media in 2012 then there would have been more than enough reason to keep a more watchful eye on him. (He was traveling back & forth to Russia/Daghastan (sp) while living off the dole, he was buying explosives, he was posting jihadist links, and growing increasingly more alienating and possibly alienated.)

I am still very curious as to why he was apparently never questioned by Waltham LE re: the triple murder case. As early as the funeral friends were questioning why he just suddenly disappeared from that circle of friends. Did no one go to detectives with their concerns over TT, who had referred to BM as his best friend, yet was nowhere to be found after the murders?

It's been a decade (!!), so I can't recall specifics but - I thought one of the big things that was *supposed* to happen after 9/11 was new and improved communication and info sharing between the FBI and CIA, at least. So that we no longer see one agency hoarding its intelligence, and one agency unaware that there is a serious problem, multiple flags, etc.

And now I'm also confused/don't remember exactly how DHS is supposed to factor into such a situation? Three agencies now.

It's really not surprising to me that we are still dealing with crap like this. And honestly, no matter what we do, no matter how many agencies we create, or how much we expand the powers of those agencies, we still aren't going to thwart every attack. The best we can hope for, IMO, is to avoid large scale ones. We simply just got lucky up until 9/11.

So better to guard against creeping authoritarianism, than keep expanding and multiplying agencies and their powers, because it just wont work, CANT work, to stop everything. The CIA has already been out of control for way too many years. :banghead:
 
If it is true about a Saudi wanting in 2012 then the FBI flag on him from 2011 should have been reopened. 2 different countries warning you about the same person, then there's something there and you need to look into it again regardless of whether you found something or not the first time!


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Exactly, and Russia's alert, to the CIA, was nowhere near a year from when the FBI "supposedly" closed the case. DHS, Janet Napolitano, is misleading the public when she says that the year was up. Russia made two separate inquiries and requests and now this warning from Saudi Arabia.

Where the heck is this National Database and why aren't the names flagged when new information is entered...

If a person has been flagged once then their name should remain in a dormant status but should pop/flag if it comes up again.

All of this, including, 1000's of officers, God knows how many dogs, at least a couple helicopters, dozens of news cameras, and the many neighbors eyeballing out their windows while searching, a fairly small town, and not finding (for nearly 24 hours) one bleeding, skinny, curly-haired 19 year old is just utterly embarrassing.

And now this a second country warned us.
 
If it is true about a Saudi wanting in 2012 then the FBI flag on him from 2011 should have been reopened. 2 different countries warning you about the same person, then there's something there and you need to look into it again regardless of whether you found something or not the first time!


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I'd say. FBI was trying to blame Russia for supposedly not providing enough information, but now we find out Saudi Arabia might have warned US as well? How would they explain not doing a thorough job after that?
 
It's been a decade (!!), so I can't recall specifics but - I thought one of the big things that was *supposed* to happen after 9/11 was new and improved communication and info sharing between the FBI and CIA, at least. So that we no longer see one agency hoarding its intelligence, and one agency unaware that there is a serious problem, multiple flags, etc.

And now I'm also confused/don't remember exactly how DHS is supposed to factor into such a situation? Three agencies now.

It's really not surprising to me that we are still dealing with crap like this. And honestly, no matter what we do, no matter how many agencies we create, or how much we expand the powers of those agencies, we still aren't going to thwart every attack. The best we can hope for, IMO, is to avoid large scale ones. We simply just got lucky up until 9/11.

So better to guard against creeping authoritarianism, than keep expanding and multiplying agencies and their powers, because it just wont work, CANT work, to stop everything. The CIA has already been out of control for way too many years. :banghead:

Right and now we are hearing about the National Security Council. Oh, and God forbid we forget the ATF.

In the case in Hoboken NJ, it seems that the arrest of the Ukrainian man, Mykyta Panasenko, with a plan and possessing actual explosives, was not even entered on the media release of weekly arrests. Did LLE inform the ATF, the CIA, DHS or the FBI?

This is truly disgusting...like you say, "It's been a decade!!!"
 
Is there an icon for "sitting ducks"? Does anyone else feel like we have been utterly exposed?

Just to add:
We here at WS would have done a much better and quicker job at finding any links TT had to jihad. And, he wouldn't have even known that he was being looked at. The amount of info we come across in a mere few hours has always astounded me. Why can't these agencies do better especially with such well funded tools...that we don't have access to?
 
In addition to declining to claim the body herself, which is her right as his spouse, Russell has taken other steps to distance herself from Tsarnaev since taking refuge at her family's home on April 19, hours after her husband was killed. Her family released a statement shortly after she was escorted home by federal agents that day saying they "never really knew" Tsarnaev. Russell has also reverted to using her maiden name instead of the name listed on her marriage certificate, Tsarnaeva.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/0...ts-says-family-will-claim-body/#ixzz2S34wqMsw
 


"Back in Watertown, a community of 30,000 people across the Charles River from the western edge of Boston, the questions are more immediate. How did hundreds of police who descended on the town fail to find a 19-year-old, who was unarmed and shot, lying under a tarp on a boat in the backyard of a house about 400 yards (366 meters) from where he had abandoned a car after fleeing the scene of the firefight? "
 
"Back in Watertown, a community of 30,000 people across the Charles River from the western edge of Boston, the questions are more immediate. How did hundreds of police who descended on the town fail to find a 19-year-old, who was unarmed and shot, lying under a tarp on a boat in the backyard of a house about 400 yards (366 meters) from where he had abandoned a car after fleeing the scene of the firefight? "





:truce:
:seeya:
All I can do is post the articles, and :floorlaugh: then,:banghead:
 
I have many personal thoughts on this case. It is extremely hard to stick to the facts especially when the media has reported so much untruth & LE as well. Thus one can make many educated inferences with regards to this case. Educated inferences are all that they are, not facts. I think we can all remember one very influential cofounder & CEO of Apple Inc. that did not have a college degree. Let's stick to the facts.

I'm with you on that. Unfortunately it's extremely difficult IMO to even determine what the 'facts' are, since there are so many unnamed "official sources" who have given contradictory and sometimes inaccurate reports/accounts, not to mention the plethora of speculation, gossip and 'revelations' and 'exclusives' being churned out by the media.

Amongst many of the 'facts' currently puzzling me are the following:

1) In the Federal complaint against DT, it alleges that available footage/images from the site of the 2nd blast (where he had been standing) reveal no possible source of the explosion apart from his backpack which he is alleged to have put down and then left behind. However one of the available images clearly shows a package sitting to the left of a litter bin (viewed from across the street) which was just beside the little boy who died and his family, and very close to a woman who looks similar to one of the young women who died.

The image that shows what is alleged to be DT's packpack on the ground is taken from an angle in which the bin and package are not visible, but other images show just how close it was to where the Richards family were standing at the time of the explosion. They are not in this 'package' image but news reports have stated that they were in a different location or walking about before stopping there to watch the race again. There has been no mention of this package by any official sources although of course it's possible that it was subsequently removed before the blast happened, but it 'looks' to me as if it has been discarded.

2) In the official complaint there is an account of what the alleged carjack victim (known only as 'Danny') apparently told investigators about the incident, including his claim that TT told him he'd done the bombing. Such a claim would make this man a key witness and so I would have thought that he would have been warned not to talk about his evidence, especially not in an 'exclusive' such as the dramatic account which subsequently appeared in the Boston Globe and then was spread round the world.

But talk he did, and his initial story (per earlier reports) of an approx. 30 minute ride burgeoned into a 90 minute joyride around various districts of Boston in which he chatted with his captors about cars, women, music and more, and where TT even took time during the trip to download a Chinese translation app on 'Danny's' phone just to answer one of 'Danny's' texts (whilst presumably also still pointing a gun at him), doubled back to a previous location where DT's car allegedly was just to get some CD's, put his gun down to fiddle with the navigation system and other fantastical details, including TT allegedly announcing that he had also killed the MIT officer. The story reads just like an action-packed thriller movie.

However, the official complaint makes no mention of TT's alleged confession to 'Danny' that he had also killed the police officer. It also differs materially from 'Danny's' subsequent story to the Globe in that the complaint states that "The man with the gun forced the victim to drive to another location, where they picked up a second man" whereas in the Globe version he alleges that "an old sedan" pulled up behind him, TT got out, carjacked him and forced him to drive, with the other car following behind. He states that they then drove to another location where the other car driver (presumably DT) gets in the back behind him and TT then drives his car.

Whatever the correct version is, if any, the current only prime witness to this alleged event and TT's supposed confessions may now have real problems with credibility at trial. I am really surprised he has been allowed to talk so freely.

3) There is an image available online of a shredded black backpack which I have read was released by the FBI and is purportedly one of the bags which contained a bomb. If this is the case, it doesn't appear to me to be either TT's or DT's bag. It certainly isn't DT's because his was a mostly lightish grey or beige bag with some black sections. Looking at the image, at the top rear of the shredded bag you can see what appears to be part of the shoulder straps. They have a grey stripe down them. Looking at available CCTV footage, TT's bag does not appear to have any strips on the shoulder straps. The stripped straps do however appear to be very similar to the bag held on the forearm of a man in a blue jacket/fleece who can be seen in one of the other available images from that day. It's not either of the two young men who were initially suspected and then cleared (one of whom had a blue top also if I recall).

As yet I am not aware if the black shredded bag has been officially confirmed to have contained one of the bombs, but if it did it doesn't look as though it was DT's or TT's bag.

Does anyone have any images of the 'Saudi' who was apparently arrested, questioned and let go? I'm interested to see what he looked like for comparison.

4) I've been looking at pressure cookers currently available from Macy's just to remind myself of their relative size and bulk (I used to own one many moons ago but we didn't get along very well). I think they would fill out an average backpack pretty well and produce a noticeable bulge, not to mention the likely weight if they were filled with various metal objects. Looking again at the CCTV of TT and DT walking by on the street, TT's packpack doesn't look very filled out to me, certainly not as much as I would expect it to be with a bulky pressure cooker inside. A couple of the models available from Macy's are described as being around 8" x 11" so they're quite big. DT's bag does look fuller, but he has it slung by one strap so that may make the contents bunch to one side or to the front, plus it looks as though it's double-pouched to me. Just my observations.

5) As of today, a search for DT's name in the Federal prison database is still resulting in "inmate not found". I seem to recall that CA's name and inmate details were available when she was awaiting trial because people were sending her money/letters etc. Does anyone know a reason why DT's details are not currently available? Is it a state by state thing?

So many questions, so few answers. The only sure thing is that some innocent people have lost their lives and many others were injured and maimed by these awful events.
 
<snipped for space>
5) As of today, a search for DT's name in the Federal prison database is still resulting in "inmate not found". I seem to recall that CA's name and inmate details were available when she was awaiting trial because people were sending her money/letters etc. Does anyone know a reason why DT's details are not currently available? Is it a state by state thing?

So many questions, so few answers. The only sure thing is that some innocent people have lost their lives and many others were injured and maimed by these awful events.

DT is currently at the "Federal Medical Center at Devens, a federal prison about 40 miles west of where he allegedly planted the bombs that killed three and injured hundreds, at the finish line of the Boston Marathon. The prison is for men requiring specialized or long-term medical or mental-health care."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...cialflow&account=thedailybeast&medium=twitter

My guess is he'll be moved to another, regular prison facility when he fully recovers.
 
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