What do the profilers say?

There were seven physicians who were asked to give opinions in regard to whether or not JonBenet had suffered prior sexual abuse. All seven agreed there was evidence of chronic sexual abuse, although one appeared to be undecided.

Five of the experts were positive that prior sexual abuse had occurred. These were doctors' Cyril Wecht, David Jones, James Monteleone, John McCann, and Ronald Wright.

Two of the medical doctors were unclear A/O obfuscated in their responses as to what the apparent evidence of chronic sexual abuse really meant. These were doctors' Richard Krugman and Werner Spitz.

BlueCrab
 
BlueCrab said:
There were seven physicians who were asked to give opinions in regard to whether or not JonBenet had suffered prior sexual abuse. All seven agreed there was evidence of chronic sexual abuse, although one appeared to be undecided.

Five of the experts were positive that prior sexual abuse had occurred. These were doctors' Cyril Wecht, David Jones, James Monteleone, John McCann, and Ronald Wright.

Two of the medical doctors were unclear A/O obfuscated in their responses as to what the apparent evidence of chronic sexual abuse really meant. These were doctors' Richard Krugman and Werner Spitz.

BlueCrab
BlueCrab, can you point me to the part of the autopsy where it says their is evidence of healed or healing anomalies?
 
Linda7NJ said:
BlueCrab, can you point me to the part of the autopsy where it says their is evidence of healed or healing anomalies?


Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflamation.

EDITED to include the word "focal" from the autopsy report.
 
BlueCrab said:
Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and interstitial chronic inflamation.

Why is that? Is it because of chronic abuse? This just breaks my heart.
 
BlueCrab said:
Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and interstitial chronic inflamation.
That's not what I asked.

Swelling to the vaginal area is swift. This is not evidence of chronic sexual abuse.
I see nothing in that autopsy report that would prove Jon Benet was "chronically" sexually abused.

One would expect to see scaring in varying stages of healing, especially if the abuse included the same type of assault as was perpetrated the night of her death.

I am not saying she wasn't ....just that there is no proof.
 
tipper said:
I don't know. I didn't follow the Peterson case so I can't say anything about his childhood and background.

I did find this book on Amazon that might shed some light.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312352050/102-8439908-0163305?v=glance&n=283155

Book Description
The Scott Peterson murder case is the most gripping and highly publicized crime story of the 21st Century. It has captivated a public hungry for the answer to one question: Why would a man with no known history of violent crime or mental illness, with a pretty wife about to give birth to his son, brutally murder her?

To get "inside Peterson's head," the national media turned to forensic psychiatrist Keith Ablow, M.D. His appearances resulted in a deluge of e-mails with most stating that his theories about the spawning of a killer inside Peterson were the first that made sense to them. Members of Scott's and Laci's families have also stated that his comments were the first that helped them understand what happened inside Scott's mind.

Inside the Mind of Scott Peterson takes readers into the mind of a killer, including:
· How Scott Peterson's empathy for others was shattered by a three generation "blood line" of childhood loss and abandonment

· How Peterson came to expertly "imitate" a person, while having no true, core self

· Early signs that Peterson was losing his capacity to empathize with others

· Why an addiction to sex took root in his psyche

· Why Peterson's meeting Amber Frey while his wife was pregnant triggered the "perfect" psychological storm

· Clues to Peterson's guilt in his interviews with Gloria Gomez and Diane Sawyer

· What Peterson was probably thinking as he listened to testimony in court and received his death sentence

Why Peterson could kill again, if released.

Using contacts at the FBI, and hiring private investigators and researchers, Keith Ablow delves deeply into Scott Peterson’s life story to answer the question: How did an All American boy turn into a ruthless killer?

As the nation continues to follow the case this summer, and Peterson awaits appeal on his death sentence, Ablow's extensive psychological profile will be a window on Peterson's soul and the pathological gears turning in his mind.

So what?? No one knew. He was a model citzen until he murdered his wife.
 
Brefie said:
So what?? No one knew. He was a model citzen until he murdered his wife.
Well, you'll have to take your disagreement up with Ressler. It's his statement.
 
tipper said:
Well, you'll have to take your disagreement up with Ressler. It's his statement.

Yes, but it's you using it for your own argument. My point still stands.
 
Brefie said:
Yes, but it's you using it for your own argument. My point still stands.
Since I know nothing about Scott Peterson (other than he was convicted) I have no idea how valid your point is.
 
concernedperson said:
Why is that? Is it because of chronic abuse? This just breaks my heart.


concernedperson,

All of the experts who examined the autopsy photos and the slide specimens agreed it was evidence of chronic sexual abuse.
 
Linda7NJ said:
That's not what I asked.

Swelling to the vaginal area is swift. This is not evidence of chronic sexual abuse.
I see nothing in that autopsy report that would prove Jon Benet was "chronically" sexually abused.

One would expect to see scaring in varying stages of healing, especially if the abuse included the same type of assault as was perpetrated the night of her death.

I am not saying she wasn't ....just that there is no proof.


Linda7NJ,

"Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflamation." is exactly what you asked for -- proof of chronic abuse to JonBenet's vagina.

The chronic injuries would have occurred about one to three days prior to her death. Acute (night of the murder) erosion at one point in the vagina was at the same 7 o'clock position as chronic (one to three days prior to the murder) erosion, strongly suggesting the same person inflicted both the new and the old injuries.

BlueCrab
 
BlueCrab said:
Linda7NJ,

"Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflamation." is exactly what you asked for -- proof of chronic abuse to JonBenet's vagina.

The chronic injuries would have occurred about one to three days prior to her death. Acute (night of the murder) erosion at one point in the vagina was at the same 7 o'clock position as chronic (one to three days prior to the murder) erosion, strongly suggesting the same person inflicted both the new and the old injuries.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,


the same 7 o'clock position as chronic (one to three days prior to the murder)

Do you have a source for the three days claim?

.
 
UKGuy said:
BlueCrab,


the same 7 o'clock position as chronic (one to three days prior to the murder)

Do you have a source for the three days claim?

.


UKGuy,

I can't find it at the moment, but it's in at least one of the books. However, I can paraphrase from memory roughly what it said.

The reason the evidence of chronic injuries to the vagina stop at three days is because of the healing process. After three days most or all of the indications of abuse have healed and are no longer visible. IOW, JonBenet could have been abused for months or even years but only the most recent injuries would be apparent. (Of course, a missing hymen and an enlarged hymenal opening can also be considered, but a timeline when these things occurred would be hard to establish.)

BlueCrab
 
BlueCrab said:
UKGuy,

I can't find it at the moment, but it's in at least one of the books. However, I can paraphrase from memory roughly what it said.

The reason the evidence of chronic injuries to the vagina stop at three days is because of the healing process. After three days most or all of the indications of abuse have healed and are no longer visible. IOW, JonBenet could have been abused for months or even years but only the most recent injuries would be apparent. (Of course, a missing hymen and an enlarged hymenal opening can also be considered, but a timeline when these things occurred would be hard to establish.)

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

Thanks for your reply. Establishing prior abuse would alter JonBenet's risk profile and allow for other theories to be presented. Notably that of conspiracy and collusion involving a trusted family friend.

I do think any abuse could be independent of her medical ailments, particularly if the abuse is recent, as the three days suggests, so possibly it occurred outside of her house?

.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
JBR had a run-in with a pedophilic child-killer, who used a garrote to control and ultimately kill her. He hit her over the head so she couldn't be revived and become a witness. There was no AEA.
Holdontoyourhat, it is my belief too that this is what happened to JonBenet. But you describe the device around her neck as a garrotte and I think it is BlueCrab who describes it as a ligature. I would like to know the difference. Also BlueCrab says the device was used for EA or AEA (which I don't believe), while you say it was used as a control mechanism which I think is possible. But I also have read where people say it was a mechanism for inducing orgasmic-like spasms in the victim. Do you think this is a possibility? I am struggling to imagine how these devices would be applied. For control would the perpetrator tighten the ligature/garotte for a few seconds to deprive the victim of air if they didn't co-operate?

(EDIT) But no I don't completely agree with you. I think it was a group of regular non-killer pedophiles who used the ligature/garotte as part of their regular activities. I think it was an outsider pedophilic child-killer who joined the group that night and brought the stungun to the session and who later smashed her skull in. I think that maybe it was when he used the stungun on JonBenet that she screamed and maybe that caused the others to become flustered and accidentally pull the ligature either too tight or for too long or both. Do you believe a stungun was involved?
 
BlueCrab said:
aussiesheila,

I too agree Dr. Francesco Beuf appeared to be covering up for JonBenet's obvious signs of sexual abuse. The autopsy later proved she had been chronically sexually abused.

As you may know, Beuf, soon after the murder, abandoned the medical field and went back to his original occupation, that of an aeronautical engineer.
Oh thank you for that information BlueCrab. I didn't know that. And how interesting. Soon after the murder. My, my.

You are sure of this are you? Where did you find this out?

Somewhere else on this forum it was mentioned that he left his medical practice but then it was Tipper I think, who then posted his address at his medical offices which was apparently to demonstrate that he was still practising in medicine.

(EDIT) BlueCrab, I have just moved on 2 posts to another of Tipper's rebuttals of your claim. Naughty me for believing you because it fitted with my theory.
 
tipper said:
http://thepediatriccenter.net/beuf.html

As of Jan 5, 2006

“Dr. Beuf was raised on his family's ranch in Wyoming. He received a degree in Mechanical Engineering from Cal Tech in 1955, then worked for one year at the Bell Telephone Laboratories in Murray Hill, New Jersey. In 1956 he accepted an offer by General Electric's new Missile and Space Division in Philadelphia, where he was involved in design of missiles satellites, Mars exploration probes, and, for his last four years, was manager of the Space Division's International Operations, a $30,000,000 enterprise.

In 1972, he took a leave of absence from GE to attend Temple University's School of Medicine, followed by internship and residency at the University of Pennsylvania Children's Hospital. For the next two years he was director of the intensive care nursery at the Byrn Mawr Hospital. He then returned to his home town in Wyoming where he practiced general pediatrics, served as Chief of Staff at Sheridan County Memorial Hospital and was appointed by the Governor to the Wyoming Certificate of Need Board and Early Intervention Council.

In 1990, Dr. Beuf moved to Boulder, admitting patients to Boulder Community and Avista hospitals. In addition to his general pediatric work, Dr. Beuf enjoys teaching students at the CU Medical School. His particular interests are in the fields of Asthma/Allergy and Neonatology. He is board certified in Pediatrics, is a Fellow of the American Academy of Pediatrics, a member of the Colorado and Boulder County Medical Societies, and has been awarded the American Medical Association's Physician's Recognition Award with Commendation for Self-Directed Learning. His articles have appeared in national journals in the fields of medicine and interplanetary exploration and in sports car magazines.

He is married to the artist, Penni Pearson, and has three children, two step-children and three grandchildren. His outside interests include biking, skiing, racing his sports car, exploring Boulder and Denver restaurants with Penni, and trying to stay ahead of the deer and the weeds which are competing for the garden.”


Ignoring the fact that the autopsy says nothing about her having been chronically sexually abused...

I don't see anything about his becoming an aeronautical engineer (unless you are counting his work at GE as a degree) OR that he left the field of pediatrics. We went over all this last October.

Added: While looking for something else I see Blue Crab was pushing this same wrong info in July as well.
Tipper, I don't think it is the coroner's place to make deductions from his observations. I think it his his place just to make the observations and leave it to others to make the deductions.

Actually, now that I read this statement which I presume is from Beuf's website, I see that is a bit hazy on what he is doing RIGHT NOW in the present. OK he started his pediatric practice in Boulder in 1990, but is he still practising medicine? Or is he simply biking, skiing, racing his sports car, exploring Boulder and Denver restaurants with Penni, and trying to stay ahead of the deer and the weeds which are competing for the garden? I don't think the website is really clear on that.
 
Linda7NJ said:
Yes, Doctors are mandated reporters, as are daycare providers, foster parents, teachers, etc
In a television interview with Diane Sawyer in 1997 Beuf stated in answer to a question as to whether he had seen any signs of sexual abuse in JonBenet "No, and I certainly would have reported it to the social service people if I had. That's something that all of us in pediatrics are very acutely aware of."

But how can we be certain of this?

Later Diane Sawyer says on camera "And some other notes. Dr. Beuf says he last saw JonBenet Ramsey in November 1996, and that was a checkup for a sinus infection. A couple of other things. Dr. Beuf says he has turned in people he has suspected of physical and sexual abuse in his career, and that he not only looks for physical evidence, but personality changes in the children involved. And he says he saw none of that with JonBenet Ramsey."

I'm sure he would have turned in SOME people he has suspected of physical and sexual abuse in his career, he would have to, to avoid appearing suspect, but did he turn them ALL in, I would like to know.

If he was mixing socially with a particular group of pedophiles who were allowing him part of the action so to speak, would he have turned THEM in, I wonder?
 
aussiesheila said:
In a television interview with Diane Sawyer in 1997 Beuf stated in answer to a question as to whether he had seen any signs of sexual abuse in JonBenet "No, and I certainly would have reported it to the social service people if I had. That's something that all of us in pediatrics are very acutely aware of."


aussieshiela,

IMO Beuf is a phony. How come he didn't see any signs of sexual abuse in JonBenet after almost 30 visits, but virtually all other experts did see it? These included nationally recognized experts such as doctors' Cyril Wecht, David Jones, James Monteleone, John McCann, and Ronald Wright.

Beuf appears to be part of the coverup of the truth that his personal friends, John and Patsy Ramsey, have been engaged in since the murder.

BlueCrab
 

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