MA MA - Rapheal Teken, 37, Eric Weissman, 31, & Brandon Mess, 25, Waltham, 12 Sept 2011

jjenny said:

Yes, it is in msm. TT's name was mentioned to the police, but police never investigated him.

“Tamerlan’s name came up in a very wide net during the course of the investigation,” the source said. “But there was never any evidence or anything offered to investigators that led to his being considered anything other than one of a group of friends.”

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...hon-bombing/mJ2MwjWEZNZqYPRDixQX4I/story.html

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Yeh, all along I have maintained that = they tried to connect ombing - nothing- so publicly they switched to triple. They have never established any meaningful relationship between the two.

Olders friends never mentioned deceased, and deceased friends never mentioned older as in a circle of rriends would and have in any case.

Thye lived in same neighborhood, from same part of the world , so culturally they would they would have similiar stuff. They met in some gym , years ago, trained a couple of times at the gym (my vote just happended ie not lets meet at the gym).

Happened a couple of times - they swapped phone numbers and then really had very minimal contact.

How many names do you all have in your cell phones that are not friends, but one one of those we really should get together - swap numbers and then both parties really did nothing.

Go ahead! pick up them cell phones, scroll, ask yourself how many people in there would you or any of your friends say were your involved friend.

Very few!

2Hip2BSquare said:

Even if the FBI were involved, do you think they would make that public knowledge? Especially if it might tip off TT, DT, or IT that the investigation had become a matter of national security and no longer just a local affair?

And it was as if the Feds immediately knew where IT was after the bombings... As if they had been watching him all along and knew he was connected to TT.

IMHO

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But see, we are ignoring the history stuff. What we do know is that both Russia and us basically lost track of everyone. so IMO, it is not even like the authorities knew stuff and did not release the info. I think it is more that they just lost em all on the radar.

Perfect, I totally agree with : If the investigators had really checked TT out, like they said, they would have known about his videos, his online searches and his calls to

I totally concur!

time said:

I think you are painting too broad of a picture.

1. Did they have enough to warrant more surveillance on Tamerlan and his mother and even if they did, would that have warned them of a homemade bomb making plot? We do know they investigated them.

2. If the Gov is spying upon millions of people in the US are those people in the same realm as DT/TT's pre-bombing activities or far less of a threat (or more).

It seems, in general, people are complaining about the Gov's 'spying' activities AND about not catching someone like TT or DT before they do anything. I think there is a balance.

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BUT, are we doing this balanced? Obviously noone on Capital Hill felt it would fly for the majority of the country - otherwise they would have annonced it 7 years ago.

In fact, if they thought it was all so good, they would have shouted about it ---hey were watching everyone of you - noone better try anything!!!!!!!!!!

CARIIS said:

BUT, are we doing this balanced? Obviously noone on Capital Hill felt it would fly for the majority of the country - otherwise they would have annonced it 7 years ago.

In fact, if they thought it was all so good, they would have shouted about it ---hey were watching everyone of you - noone better try anything!!!!!!!!!!

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We have to remember all of us AMericans found out because of a brave whistleblower ! And since they have been doing this , secretly , for years, then why cant they say we have 42.6 cell phones between deceased and older.

We therefore , have established a relationship . What we have, is they talked or texted once or twice.

SophieRose said:

Well, they certainly weren't at the Cambridge apartment very quickly. And if they knew they did a lousy job since MIT cop Sean Collier was killed. Sorry don't buy it.

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Me either, if we go back to the beginning, for like two days they were looking all over. Then IMO they found out oh S$$$ - they were on our radar a while back. We better get these guys - casue if they do more we are really going to have egg...............

So they went public cause they were clueless. Think about it, if they "knew" anything what a great plug ---bomb goes off - they apprehend them, salute how great our system is protecting us...... we have had them on our radar for years and have been watching them

World - all is safe , they did this terrible thing, we went out a swooped em up and were all safe!

And lets be honest, they had like 4 days to do more, we are lucky that they thought they got away with it and did not try to cram in some more killing before they were pulled in. We all know they planned more................you dont make 8 servings of chocolate pudding when your having a couple over for dinner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2Hip2BSquare said:

Have we all forgotten the best herb comes from Afghanistan?? Don't ask me how I know this...

Who has access to overseas black market cash schemes (drugs, arms making/dealing, extortion)?

TT

Moo Moo MOO!

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Don't ask me how I know this...

OK!

Thats funny!

2Hip2BSquare said:

Wow! And yeah it seems whenever a case doesn't get local attention it's bc local authorities/law enforcement have little information/jurisdiction as it may be an ongoing Federal Investigation.

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Or maybe they knew nothin!

It was “A” Sept 11.



Older obviously wants to get with some folks – this is a happy day for him. They have some people over to BM apt. They were watching football. We know there was some conflict from older and one of the other people as it relates to lifestyle drugs etc. etc.

They were sitting around doing football thing. (Fits it’s around 8 PM --last text). We know older has some impulse control stuff. A conflict (the boys are all known to be fond of throwing their fists about)... breaks out, then someone says something about 9-11 that just trips older out
.
He is skilled. Older lunges. That one is dead – accident. Folks, IMO, this is where the “they were afraid they were going to tell cops” come in (the first murder – not drugs). They were afraid that they saw older kill one of them by accident.

The two being Jewish has always been an interesting angle. More and more, am thinking that this too led to or escalated a conflict that went out of control because some of them were high on hard stuff. Both meth and crack lead to violence on occasion.

It explains all the LE contact most of them had had. AND in most instances all of interaction with LE was about fighting / drugs/ using/ --lots of turf conflicts etc. etc.

The notion that it was planned (murder) makes no sense. From the beginning law enforcement said that they knew the victims, and they were let in. Would anyone sit around and be texting other people telling others who are there that night.

We’re planning on killing 3 people; let’s text lots of people and let folks know we all are together tonight even though we plan on killing them? Indicates no premeditation to me- none... Makes no sense unless not planned.
Younger / older decide they have to kill the other two. Older still raging about younger brother being influenced and now smoking weed or worse. They were bad boys.

It also would explain the throwing of weed money all over them. For older he was sending a message. Releasing his rage at capitalism $, drugs.
No one, in the drug dealing world would possibly throw around weed, cash and split. Think about it. Just makes no sense – the pot and $ were an afterthought after they just murdered three human beings (also wonder if some crack was going (meth?) actually that night. It might shed some light on the brutality of the murders.

Now, the bodies all over the place take me different places. Either way they were not rushed to get out after hacking off their heads... Decapitating three people probably takes a dash of effort. Why has there never been anything written (on the very day it happened) about the location of the bodies, and where (room) each was found.

Three young men were found brutally murdered today at …….Officials tell us that they suffered severe neck injuries and appeared to have been moved after the killing. (It is interesting to note here, from the beginning, or since, we do not know where their heads were chopped off., which was in what room, where in the room, and did it look like struggle happened?

My guess is wherever one chops heads off there would be blood. A lot of it. SO the notion that all along we do not know WHERE, in the apt, each one was beheaded, and found, in what condition in each room has signifgance. Were they dressed in ready to go out stuff? Were they in shorts and chilling? All of that tells a story... That would be pretty easy to determine IMO.

BUT big but, IF all three of them were killed in their rooms, then that would indicate premeditation. Knocked off one at a time. But this takes me back to how on earth could anyone not HEAR someone when they are being slaughtered

But, then I ask myself, who invites company over; it’s early in the night, and hangs out alone in three separate rooms. Again makes no sense!
It just went out of control. Furthermore, the fact that in years there have been no interest in them, or any arrest related to this indicates that it worked. Kill someone. The only way to increase your odds of not getting caught for the first killing is to kill the only other two people who know.

Both younger and older knew neither of them would ever rat each other out.
They got away with it – if they did not do bombing they would still have gotten away with three murders.

So………….where does my theory run into problems? Tell me your notions………

Were obviously not going to get any more info – just like the fertilizer plant explosion ----poof -----never happened-

You know, I usually never post more than two or three times in a row.

Two Words
Wolfking Awesomefox.

Ok, here is one more
TheTrueHOOHA

jjenny said:

IT and TT are both dead, while DT sits in prison. I don't know why FBI would be worried about tipping them off. FBI knew where IT was because his number was in TT's phone. And I haven't seen anything about FBI knowing where IT was immediately after the bombing. They didn't even know where TT was immediately after the bombing. In fact they didn't know who he was. Thus they had to release photos to the public.

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IMO bc the FBI would want to surveille TT and DT to find Al Awlaki's whereabouts.

The fact Awlaki was killed in a drone attack (as well as the operator of Inspire magazine that TT and DT read up how to build a pressure cooker bomb) not long after the murders in MA might indicate the FBI were using/following TT and DT to get to Awlaki and other top Al Qaeda leaders...


Just an idea.

I honestly believe the 3 men in Waltham were killed in a sick terrorist act/homage to Sept 11, 2001.

I believe that Waltham police entered the site and discovered that things did not add up to a typical drug rip off bc money/drugs still remained. They also took note of the date I'm sure. They probably suspected it was a terrorist act and alerted homeland security which would then alert the FBI.

The investigation would then come under FBI jurisdiction and the Waltham murder and it's investigation would be held up by the FBI as they were following the suspects email/text/corrospondence to get leads on bigger fish like Awlaki.

(side note: I believe the FBI suspected from the beginning TT and DT might have been behind the Marathon Bombings, but they had no conclusive evidence it was the brothers until the pictures came out.

I'm sure they had many on their list of potential terrorist suspects and they needed to narrow the suspects down - until they got factual evidence.)

The fact that they recognized TT as a suspect in the Waltham murders immediately after he is identified in the bombings/is killed show he literally and figuratively became a dead federal/national lead and could reveal his involvement in the State investigation of the triple murders.

IMOO

So, no new news on this investigation?

Just K said:

So, no new news on this investigation?

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http://waltham.patch.com/d/topics/harding-avenue-triple-murder

This "Waltham Patch" website is a good source of articles about the murders from 2011 to present.
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It seems also as if the ACLU is seeking answers as to why the FBI shot Todashev. FBI is now investigating Todashev's shooting after pressure from ACLU. This is the most recent news with any remote connection to the Waltham 3.

http://waltham.patch.com/d/articles/fbi-launches-probe-of-todashev-shooting

But by all accounts in the photos released in this link of todashev's wounds, one can clearly see that he was not shot execution style (in the head) , as is being rumored. In fact, I can only see one possible bullet wound on his abdomen. Don't worry, you will not see the pictures on the link with the article, each pic is linked seperate without thumbnail at the bottom.

http://m.news965.com/news/news/local/pictures-ibragim-todashev-shot-fbi-orlando-graphic/nX7h9/

Upon second look I have to edit my statement and say that I do see the abrasion on Todashev's head in the photos.

I really hope that when Todashev was on top of the agent that the MA Officer did not try to shoot at Todashev, accidentally striking him in the back of his head as the scuffle made aim difficult, while the agent simultaneously shot Todashev in the torso... But if so, I'm sure it was all in a moment of panic/chaos that none of us could ever comprehend unless we've been there.

I guess forensics will help reveal the caliber ammo associated with each wound and who's guns those bullets/wounds belong to...

I hadn't heard it stated this detailed before with the head turned a quarter to the right.

July 10, 2013

It was the most brazen crime in the memory of this Boston suburb: three men murdered with knife slashes to their throats in a second-floor apartment at 12 Harding Avenue; each corpse precisely positioned, stomach down, head turned a quarter to the right, marijuana sprinkled on top.

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Even before Ibragim Todashev, his friend and boxing partner, implicated himself and Mr. Tsarnaev prior to being killed during an F.B.I. interrogation in late May, federal investigators had been gathering information against Mr. Tsarnaev using “old-fashioned” police work, a senior law enforcement official said. They “went through his phone, did interviews, got his contacts — a combination of all that.” They believe the two men targeted the victims, one of whom was a close friend, in a drug-related robbery.

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“I told the police that there were only two Muslims I knew of who hung around the group of friends, and because of the 9/11 date, the fact that Tamerlan and Brendan’s last girlfriend were Muslim stood out,” the friend said.

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Law enforcement are denying they were told this (above).. much more on who they did or didn't talk to in the article.

John Allan, the gym’s owner, said that he was struck by Mr. Tsarnaev’s unemotional reaction to Mr. Mess’s murder. In an interview, he recounted a conversation a few days after the killings.

“As I said something, there was kind of a smile on Tamerlan’s face, and he laughed it off,” Mr. Allan recalled. “He laughed off the fact that he was murdered, like: ‘Aw, man. It’s crazy right? Huh huh. It’s crazy right? I guess if you do that, that’s what’s going to happen.' ”

Mr. Allan said there was no hint of grief. “That really shocked me.”
Mr. Tsarnaev’s wife, Katherine Russell, too, was perplexed by how untroubled her husband seemed about the death of his close friend, according a person with direct knowledge of the situation. She found out about the murders through local news reports, and when she spoke to her husband about the tragedy, he speculated matter-of-factly that they were the result of a drug deal gone awry, the person said.

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The gym was also an occasional hangout for Mr. Todashev, whom Mr. Tsarnaev introduced to the facility. Mr. Allan said that he believes he was the first one to tell the authorities about Mr. Todashev and his relationship with Mr. Tsarnaev. Summing up his reasons, Mr. Allan said, “He’s got a bad temper, he clearly has anti-American sentiment, a radical-style Muslim who was training with Tamerlan at this gym, and at the end praying towards Mecca with him.”

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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/11/u...-to-be-linked-to-2011-triple-murder-case.html

From the link above...

Investigators have been helped by DNA evidence taken from Mr. Tsarnaev after his death that they are using as part of the Waltham investigation, according to the official, who believes that local investigators did not have such forensic evidence before the bombings. Another friend of Mr. Mess said that after the bombings, investigators told him “they have info that may have placed Tam with Brendan the day before or night of the killings.”

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time said:

I hadn't heard it stated this detailed before with the head turned a quarter to the right.

July 10, 2013
Law enforcement are denying they were told this (above).. much more on who they did or didn't talk to in the article.



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/11/u...-to-be-linked-to-2011-triple-murder-case.html

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Thanks Time! Especially interesting statement from Mr. Allan, someone who has been around aggressive people.

"The gym was also an occasional hangout for Mr. Todashev, whom Mr. Tsarnaev introduced to the facility. Mr. Allan said that he believes he was the first one to tell the authorities about Mr. Todashev and his relationship with Mr. Tsarnaev. Summing up his reasons, Mr. Allan said, “He’s got a bad temper, he clearly has anti-American sentiment, a radical-style Muslim who was training with Tamerlan at this gym, and at the end praying towards Mecca with him.”

4MYGUYS said:

Thanks Time! Especially interesting statement from Mr. Allan, someone who has been around aggressive people.

"The gym was also an occasional hangout for Mr. Todashev, whom Mr. Tsarnaev introduced to the facility. Mr. Allan said that he believes he was the first one to tell the authorities about Mr. Todashev and his relationship with Mr. Tsarnaev. Summing up his reasons, Mr. Allan said, “He’s got a bad temper, he clearly has anti-American sentiment, a radical-style Muslim who was training with Tamerlan at this gym, and at the end praying towards Mecca with him.”

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my goodness when I read this .......above
he clearly has anti-American sentiment, a radical-style Muslim who was training with Tamerlan at this gym, and at the end praying towards Mecca with him.”


<modsnip>

2Hip2BSquare said:

http://waltham.patch.com/d/topics/harding-avenue-triple-murder

This "Waltham Patch" website is a good source of articles about the murders from 2011 to present.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems also as if the ACLU is seeking answers as to why the FBI shot Todashev. FBI is now investigating Todashev's shooting after pressure from ACLU. This is the most recent news with any remote connection to the Waltham 3.

http://waltham.patch.com/d/articles/fbi-launches-probe-of-todashev-shooting

But by all accounts in the photos released in this link of todashev's wounds, one can clearly see that he was not shot execution style (in the head) , as is being rumored. In fact, I can only see one possible bullet wound on his abdomen. Don't worry, you will not see the pictures on the link with the article, each pic is linked seperate without thumbnail at the bottom.

http://m.news965.com/news/news/local/pictures-ibragim-todashev-shot-fbi-orlando-graphic/nX7h9/

Upon second look I have to edit my statement and say that I do see the abrasion on Todashev's head in the photos.

I really hope that when Todashev was on top of the agent that the MA Officer did not try to shoot at Todashev, accidentally striking him in the back of his head as the scuffle made aim difficult, while the agent simultaneously shot Todashev in the torso... But if so, I'm sure it was all in a moment of panic/chaos that none of us could ever comprehend unless we've been there.

I guess forensics will help reveal the caliber ammo associated with each wound and who's guns those bullets/wounds belong to...

Click to expand...

I guess forensics will help reveal the caliber ammo associated with each wound and who's guns those bullets/wounds belong to

Links other thread

But sadly they just reiterated , this week, that the FBI will continue to hide the autopsy.

Wer all know power of forensics and the only reason IMO, they have to hide it is indicates super , unwarrented overkill, IMO.

CARIIS said:

I guess forensics will help reveal the caliber ammo associated with each wound and who's guns those bullets/wounds belong to

Links other thread

But sadly they just reiterated , this week, that the FBI will continue to hide the autopsy.

Wer all know power of forensics and the only reason IMO, they have to hide it is indicates super , unwarrented overkill, IMO.

Click to expand...

"A Florida medical examiner&#8217;s office said Tuesday that the FBI has ordered the office not to release its autopsy report of a Chechen man fatally shot by a Boston FBI agent in May because of the federal agency&#8217;s active internal investigation into his death.

The medical examiner&#8217;s office said it completed the autopsy report on Ibragim Todashev, a friend of suspected Boston Marathon bomber, on July 8 and that the report was &#8220;ready for release.&#8221; The agent shot and killed Todashev on May 22 in his Orlando apartment during an interrogation related to the Boston Marathon bombings.

&#8220;The FBI has informed this office that the case is still under active investigation and thus not to release the document,&#8221; Tony Miranda, forensic records coordinator for Orange and Osceola counties in Orlando, said in a letter to the media today. Miranda said state law bars his office from releasing the report if an criminal investigation is ongoing.

The FBI and the Justice Department are conducting an internal inquiry into the shooting, but critics have called for an independent inquiry, questioning the blanket of secrecy surrounding the case."

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...ing-suspect/ya3iB1u4t2YQYN9wfMVseJ/story.html

7/17/2013

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/17/justice/massachusetts-tamerlan-tsarnaev/?hpt=ju_c2

A few excerpts

Jamal Abu Rubieh, owner of the Brookline Lunch cafe, knew something wasn't right when Brendan Mess and Erik Weissman sat quietly in a back corner booth that August night in 2011.

Gone was the usual boisterous banter typical of their regular visits. Abu Rubieh says things became even more tense when a bald, blue-eyed man twice their age arrived. The three talked for about an hour.

"He sounded different and he acted different, the guy with them, and they all were, like, nervous," Abu Rubieh said. "And that time, (Mess) was really serious and he wasn't himself."

The man, who Abu Rubieh had never seen before and hasn't seen since, had a thick Boston accent. Three weeks later, on September 11, Mess, 25; Weissman, 31, and another friend, Raphael Teken, 37, were found dead in their second-floor Waltham apartment. Their throats had been slashed ear-to-ear, marijuana was sprinkled across the corpses, and several thousand dollars in cash was found at the scene.

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A neighbor says Mess' girlfriend discovered the bodies and came to his house. Her feet were bloody, and she was crying. She calmly asked for a cigarette and called police

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...Weissman had a business making high-end glass bongs and was planning to move to California once his drug charges in Massachusetts were resolved. His lawyer, Norman Zalkind, says his client was close to a plea deal when he was killed, but declined to say more, citing attorney-client privilege.

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Four months after the murders, Tsarnaev went to Dagestan. And, actually the new Rolling Stones article does state, as another article had, that Tamelin was kind of rebuffed in Dagestan. Not sure if it is significant, but a timeline of TT and IT coinciding with all possible crimes would be beneficial.