General Discussion Thread #4

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Patticake said:
I don't know if this was cleared up but I'm confused on the sequencing as well. If this is to be believed, Reeva screamed, then was shot:
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The sequencing according to the indictment is

screaming.... followed by moments of silence.... gunshots.... then more screaming.

http://de.scribd.com/doc/161348107/Oscar-Pistorius-indictment
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Maybe the witnesses who heard

screaming.... two or three gunshots.... 17 minutes silence.... and then more shots......
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for unknown reasons not ready or not suitable for testifying?

I remember reports, that some witnesses withdrew their testimony. And we speculated at that time whether they are afraid of OP because he could have contacted them after his bail conditions were relaxed.
 
Well-covered by the media the "holy" family prays in court .... :drama:

Well-covered by the media Reeva's murderer weeps in court.... :drama:

Well-covered by the media the murderer's brother despatches a tacky tweet..... :drama:

carlpistorius Carl Pistorius11h
Remembered like yesterday. My life was impacted by u @reevasteenkamp & the lady u were! Always close to our hearts. pic.twitter.com/esaze26Ljn
https://twitter.com/carlpistorius/status/369386949158506496/photo/1
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But they all are too much of a coward to look frankly into the face of Reeva's grief-stricken friends and relatives, who REALLY loves and miss her dreadfully.

andrew harding‏@BBCAndrewH
#pistorius sister and brother now in court sitting very close to Reeva's friends but no eye contact.

A friend seems to be shielding his line of sight from Reeva's friends.
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:mad: :sick:
 
Pisto_lius said:
OP claimed in his affidavit, he called Stander and Netcare. But the cell phones investigators found at the scene didn't show any call. So prosecutors believed OP lied in his affidavit untill Roux told them there was another (the 5th) cell phone.
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So the Defence had to produce the phone (which may or may not hold other evidence) or it would automatically have been assumed P. was lying due to the lack of any other call on his other phone/phones. I would still like to know why the DT had it in their hands and why it was not immediately handed to the police as evidence. What was it they were trying to hide?
 
Witnesses heard woman scream before Pistorius killed his girlfriend: Prosecutors

A woman screamed and then there was silence, according to South African prosecutors pressing a premeditated murder case against Oscar Pistorius. Next, the indictment says, witnesses heard gunshots and more screaming at the home of the Paralympic champion, who says he shot his girlfriend by mistake on Valentine's Day.

The sequence of events outlined Monday could bolster an argument that the double-amputee Olympian was intent on killing Reeva Steenkamp after an altercation and was not reacting fearfully to what he thought was an intrusion in his home, as he has said.

The prosecution's allusion to a possible fight between the couple at Pistorius' villa before the shooting raises the possibility of a motive.

The state hinted that its case would hinge on the witnesses who say they heard a woman scream before the gunshots inside the gated complex in the pre-dawn hours of Feb. 14.

Although the word “premeditated” was not used in the indictment, prosecutors said the main charge was premeditated murder.

http://globalnews.ca/news/787969/os...d-on-murder-charge-for-killing-of-girlfriend/
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quote trimmed for brevity:
Estelle said:
However, it is IMO very strange to have a fan sitting on a balcony. I live in Sydney, Australia, which has a similar climate to Pretoria in February. I have never been to a house in all my world travels or in my city or country where anyone has ever kept a fan on their balcony as we would have fresh air there.
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Happens a lot around here. My fan has been sitting out on the balcony all night and morning blowing the cooler air from outside to inside. I do this almost every night in the summer here. Standard practice. Sometimes the air outside turns surprisingly cool late at night into the morning, too cool, and then I bring the fan inside and leave it on as I like the sound of it during sleep. So that part of OP's affidavit doesn't sound farfetched on the face of it, at least to me.
 
Interested Bystander said:
So the Defence had to produce the phone (which may or may not hold other evidence) or it would automatically have been assumed P. was lying due to the lack of any other call on his other phone/phones. I would still like to know why the DT had it in their hands and why it was not immediately handed to the police as evidence. What was it they were trying to hide?
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For these and a lot of other questions we have to wait until the trial :D.

But this issue could become interesting because Roux claimed on the BH that OP phoned Stander at 03.19 a.m. and Netcare at 03.20 a.m.

This means at this time the 5th cell phone wasn't locked OR OP has told Roux the password which he unfortunately "forgot" after prosecutors got this cell phone.

And I would say if prosecutors can't unlock this cell phone until the trial the DT have a further problem.


What was it they were trying to hide?

My assumption:

1. These two phone calls are suspicious because two phone calls within one minute? For both phone calls OP had to explain what happened and that's impossible in this time because the other parties would ask questions and OP had to answer.

2. Were there other phone calls befor Netcare was calling? If yes, to whom and which time?

3. What about the phone calls with his friends they told in their affidavit? OP didn't mention any phone calls in his affidavit and this makes him untrustworthy to other issues of his affidavit.

The result could be: there are so much holes in his affidavit that for the judge's opinion OP overall is untrustworthy.

IMO :)
 
Pisto_lius said:
If the hypothetical blow on the head with the cricket bat wasn't fatal and afterwards he shot her in the head the autopsy result "gunshot wounds caused the death" nevertheless could be right.
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I don't think OP bashed RS's head with the bat. One publication has published something that RS's brother has already come out and discredited. IIRC, we don't know how much blood was on the bat. We're hearing "covered in blood", but it might have just been a spray. If RS's head were crushed by the bat, surely we would have heard about that in an official capacity by now.
 
Hi friends :wave:

Doing the happy dance for this indictment. Justice might just be a reality in March 2014. We, and the world, will be waiting,
 
Interested Bystander said:
So the Defence had to produce the phone (which may or may not hold other evidence) or it would automatically have been assumed P. was lying due to the lack of any other call on his other phone/phones. I would still like to know why the DT had it in their hands and why it was not immediately handed to the police as evidence. What was it they were trying to hide?
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The DT doesn't have to produce the phone until the PT demands it with appropriate legal warrants behind them. Why should OP provide the phone if the police don't order him to?

The ineptness of Botha and the police was put to good use at the bail hearing by Roux; he made them look foolish for not demanding the handing over of any and all communication devices. Canny move by the attorney I think.

As for the phone calls from OP to Stander and Netcare, is there any question that they took place? There are records at the cell phone companies!
 
Quote excerpted for brevity.
Pisto_lius said:
But this issue could become interesting because Roux claimed at the BH that OP phoned Stander at 03.19 a.m. and Netcare at 03.20 a.m.

This means at this time the 5th cell phone wasn't locked OR OP has told Roux the password which he unfortunately "forgot" after prosecutors got this cell phone.
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No, OP has never claimed he forgot the password to unlock the iphone. In fact the PT has access to this phone (although OP stalled for months on this). What they don't have access to is the WhatsApp on the phone. This is what OP is *claiming* he has forgotten the password to. WhatsApp has the capability of encrypting chats and texts. But the WhatsApp servers delete these. However, these chats etc. can be saved on the phone via WhatsApp, in encrypted form. No one can read them (so far) without OP's WhatsApp password, and of course the PT would like to, and of course OP is saying I don't remember blah blah ... (this may be Roux's idea).

Pisto_lius said:
1. These two phone calls are suspicious because two phone calls within one minute? For both phone calls OP had to explain what happened and that's impossible in this time because the other parties would ask questions and OP had to answer.
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First, the one minute could easily be two. Second, Stander is involved in the administration of Silver Woods, and is surely very well known to OP on a first name basis etc. Doesn't take much to say "Stander, this is OP, I need an ambulance here ASAP." And remember: the cell phone companies have records of any voice calls OP made on this phone.
 
natsound said:
I don't think OP bashed RS's head with the bat. One publication has published something that RS's brother has already come out and discredited. IIRC, we don't know how much blood was on the bat. We're hearing "covered in blood", but it might have just been a spray. If RS's head were crushed by the bat, surely we would have heard about that in an official capacity by now.
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I agree with you. The theory of the bat as a weapon of physical harm in this incident was dead a long time ago IMO. I don't know why people keep hanging on to this. I mean, if RS's head was bashed in by the bat, it would have been obvious at autopsy, and don't you think the PT would have said something about it by today?
 
Estelle said:
I just re-read the affidavit of Pistorius. Thanks to Pisto for posting it again.

I suddenly thought about the fan which I have always just accepted before as it being normal to have a fan on a balcony.

However, it is IMO very strange to have a fan sitting on a balcony. I live in Sydney, Australia, which has a similar climate to Pretoria in February. I have never been to a house in all my world travels or in my city or country where anyone has ever kept a fan on their balcony as we would have fresh air there. In February, it could get hot and we would always have it inside the house to cool the room down before we go to bed. But we would not put a fan outside as any moisture or rain could destroy the electrics even if there was a cover on the top of it. Even if it were safe outside, we could not be bothered bringing it in every day.

Does anyone agree with this?
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On a sweltering, humid summer day in Michigan, yes, we do have our fan out on our deck! It keeps the air moving, keeps flies away from our food, and mosquitos at bay. We leave it out most of the summer with a small tarp over it. It is plugged in to a safe grounded outdoor electrical outlet.
 
Pisto_lius said:
OP claimed in his affidavit, he called Stander and Netcare. But the cell phones investigators found at the scene didn't show any call. So prosecutors believed OP lied in his affidavit untill Roux told them there was another (the 5th) cell phone.
Click to expand...

Apologies if I have missed something, but this 5th cell phone that Roux says they have, has it ever been turned over to the investigators? Is this the one that he doesn't remember the password to that Apple is working on?
 
Did anyone else catch the National Enquirer guy, Mike Walker, tell Nancy Grace that it is speculated that OP killed RS because she was pregnant and he caught her texting one of her ex's?

Sorry if this has already been discussed.

Mel


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
kittychi said:
Apologies if I have missed something, but this 5th cell phone that Roux says they have, has it ever been turned over to the investigators? Is this the one that he doesn't remember the password to that Apple is working on?
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Yes it has. See my comments above.
 
mnegri1973 said:
Did anyone else catch the National Enquirer guy, Mike Walker, tell Nancy Grace that it is speculated that OP killed RS because she was pregnant and he caught her texting one of her ex's?

Sorry if this has already been discussed.

Mel

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Family rubbishes claims Reeva Steenkamp was pregnant
February 28, 2013

Family spokesman Mike Steenkamp said a report in The National Enquirer which claimed Reeva was carrying the runner's unborn child was untrue, as she would have confided in her mother
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http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/family-rubbishes-claims-reeva-steenkamp-pregnant-5355870

Few people believe now that the reason for the argument was Reeva's pregnancy as these rumours have been denied.

We have never heard the results of the post mortem so will have to wait until the trial.

However, if Reeva had just discovered that she was pregnant, I think the first person she would tell would have been Pistorius - not her mother.

Just like the cricket bat theory, the pregnancy theory has never been confirmed.
 
Feynman said:
I agree with you. The theory of the bat as a weapon of physical harm in this incident was dead a long time ago IMO. I don't know why people keep hanging on to this. I mean, if RS's head was bashed in by the bat, it would have been obvious at autopsy, and don't you think the PT would have said something about it by today?
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IMO it is still possible that OP hit Reeva with the cricket bat first and that is why she screamed first and ran to the toilet for cover locking herself in there.

If RS had been hit with the cricket bat, it is a case of domestic violence but in a court, the worst offence is only mentioned eg the cause of death was gunshot wounds.

The crucial 17 minutes: Pistorius murder trial witness claims there was lengthy gap BETWEEN bursts of gunfire
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lengthy-gap-bursts-gunfire.html#ixzz2cUPirT5B

WHAT WE HAVE HEARD IS:

Around midnight to 1am Previous report of arguing that night

2-3am Woman & man heard non-stop shouting

Woman screams (what made RS scream? sight of a gun? the cricket bat? A gunshot?)

SILENCE FOR UP TO 17 MINUTES (RS goes for cover in toilet, locks door? crouches down behind door, OP phones friends for advice? reaches for gun? does not put on prosthetic legs or does then kneels down to shoot? decides he has to kill Reeva)

4 gunshots at toilet door - 3 of them hit Reeva

Woman screams

Woman dies

Reeva’s school friend Gwyn Guscott also said that she was aware of an argument that took place between the couple that Reeva took two days too cool down from.

She said 'I know of one argument that she had with Oscar. I don’t know who started the argument but I do recall her saying to me that, "Gwyn, you know how I am, I’m not a person that likes arguments so I walk away. So I left and I took two days to cool off and just think about what had happened and then I tried to patch things up".'
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...teenkamp-premonition-death.html#ixzz2cUJsEqO9

IMO Reeva was probably trying to patch up yet another argument - hence the gift too.
 
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