IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31

Just read this article on Long-QT. I wonder if Lauren had a defibrillator?

Sudden Cardiac Arrest Changes Lives Of Dublin Family

http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2013/11/01/columbus-health-source-sudden-cardiac-arrest.html

Jupiter812 said:

I sometimes wonder if he was coherent enough to remember fully. She might have been at his apt via MB. He might recall fuzzily her state and how he did not act on her behalf. He's ready to pass out so he goes upstairs. She wanders out the door...?

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Do we know anything about the other inhabitants of 5N apart from the female neighbor whom MB spoke with? I'm thinking she wouldn't have gotten far, but maybe she crossed paths with the wrong person. Maybe someone followed her out (guest)? Or maybe she stumbled back to CR/MB's?

Let's pick at this a little. If this was the case, why would JR say he saw her walk away? IMO, it might go back to protecting someone he's close to or someone who has something on him. Or maybe he just claimed he saw her walk away because it seemingly protects him from being even more negligent?

I do recall reading a a report of a 5N tennant who was interviewed that mentioned that she had seen LS frequenting Apt complex..maybe over the last yr or so..from my memory only..girl was of Eastern Eurooean name..at least to me.. Russian..Ukraine..and I thought also a hair stylist..spa occupation

monkey222 said:

I do recall reading a a report of a 5N tennant who was interviewed that mentioned that she had seen LS frequenting Apt complex..maybe over the last yr or so..from my memory only..girl was of Eastern Eurooean name..at least to me.. Russian..Ukraine..and I thought also a hair stylist..spa occupation

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That mght be Valerie, described in the passage from "Indianapolis Monthly" below. This is when I really started doubting MB, BTW. What this neighbor said was brand new territory, IMO. I'm not sure why the neighbor would make this up. ???

"Beth’s attorney, Ron Chapman (who also represents Rohn), tells IM that Beth, an IU student, stayed in all night to work on papers due that day. Chapman also confirms that Rossman was with Spierer when she came to the apartment, and that Beth helped Rossman into bed. Valerie Sokolova, a neighbor, tells IM that Beth has said he went upstairs and, when he returned, Spierer was gone. 'That was the last time Mike and Corey saw her,' says Sokolova."

Here's the link:
http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/features/story.aspx?ID=1712477

VeryVeritas said:

If cadaver dogs were not used it would be pointless. It's not like anyone was saying that LS was NOT at 5N. Dogs simply picking up her scent could not differentiate between her being there at 12:30am and 3:00am.

If there was no Cadaver dog "Hit" at the dumpster behind 5N, then why did LE have an extensive search at the Dump where the 5N trash goes? Perhaps it should have been searched anyway... but it seems to me a lot of good places were not searched, like the sewers. So it seems LE was following a lead...

Drug dogs? Really, like there would be bags of stuff there after someone dies and goes missing. The POI's are far more intelligent than that. If LE brought in drug dogs instead of cadaver dogs then someone needs to be replaced at the BPD. But that does trigger some thoughts:
Whatever illicit materials were around, that vanished too. Sure you can flush some stuff down the toilet... but that's a risk... LE has been known to recover stuff from the commode. So, scales, pipes, baggies, pills, powders, razor blades, coke straws, buds, bongs... it all vanishes too? One could argue that stuff would vanish just because of the LE scrutiny. However... when Mr. Spierer and JW show up at 5N totally by surprise was that the scene? All clean? When LE shows up, was it also all clean? After a night of serious partying would you expect everything to be clean or would you expect to find obvious signs of partying? I'm betting it was squeaky clean.
We aren't privy to these kinds of details, but Mr. Spierer comparing notes with LE, they would know.

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your posts has 2 misconceptions.

1. JW arrived at 5N with his dad, not Mr. Spierer.
2. the landfill was not supposedly searched because of a cadaver hit, but a rising public outcry for the dump to be searched, incl. her family.

The neighbors I can remember who have been interviewed by MSM are:

CM: who saw Corey either the morning of June 3rd or 4th when he said "have you seen a little blonde girl?"

Unnamed friend from Smallwood: Who ran into CR and MB at CVS and says MB told him he (MB) watched Lauren walk out the door towards home

VS: The neighbor who said MB told her that Lauren left while he was upstairs putting Corey to bed, and that's the last time they saw her

AA and roommate: who found the keys and put them on the railing

KT: Who was the first to identify JR as being the neighbor of CR and MB who was the last to see Lauren. He (I think) was the one who said he saw Lauren come and go to the building before

KW: the salon employee in the striped sundress who walked home at 3:45 and didn't see Lauren (and her unnamed roommate who walked home at 4:20)

CK: who lives in the apt between CR/MB and JR (cited in the same article as KW) who said the streets are totally safe at night, and who knows CR and MB but not really JR

Missing anyone?

AbbeyR said:

The neighbors I can remember who have been interviewed by MSM are:

CM: who saw Corey either the morning of June 3rd or 4th when he said "have you seen a little blonde girl?"

Unnamed friend from Smallwood: Who ran into CR and MB at CVS and says MB told him he (MB) watched Lauren walk out the door towards home

VS: The neighbor who said MB told her that Lauren left while he was upstairs putting Corey to bed, and that's the last time they saw her

AA and roommate: who found the keys and put them on the railing

KT: Who was the first to identify JR as being the neighbor of CR and MB who was the last to see Lauren. He (I think) was the one who said he saw Lauren come and go to the building before

KW: the salon employee in the striped sundress who walked home at 3:45 and didn't see Lauren (and her unnamed roommate who walked home at 4:20)

CK: who lives in the apt between CR/MB and JR (cited in the same article as KW) who said the streets are totally safe at night, and who knows CR and MB but not really JR

Missing anyone?

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Is KT the African American who Tony Gatto spoke to and posted a pic or two on his blog? The guy Tony spoke to lived at 5N.

With their respective mentions, if the article is still available:

AbbeyR said:

The neighbors I can remember who have been interviewed by MSM are:

CM: who saw Corey either the morning of June 3rd or 4th when he said "have you seen a little blonde girl?"

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http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

AbbeyR said:

Unnamed friend from Smallwood: Who ran into CR and MB at CVS and says MB told him he (MB) watched Lauren walk out the door towards home

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[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7444401&postcount=217"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7444401&postcount=217[/ame]

AbbeyR said:

VS: The neighbor who said MB told her that Lauren left while he was upstairs putting Corey to bed, and that's the last time they saw her

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http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/features/story.aspx?ID=1712477

AbbeyR said:

AA and roommate: who found the keys and put them on the railing

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[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6735489"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6735489[/ame]

AbbeyR said:

KT: Who was the first to identify JR as being the neighbor of CR and MB who was the last to see Lauren. He (I think) was the one who said he saw Lauren come and go to the building before

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http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-09-missing-indiana-student_n.htm

AbbeyR said:

KW: the salon employee in the striped sundress who walked home at 3:45 and didn't see Lauren (and her unnamed roommate who walked home at 4:20)

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http://druzifer.livejournal.com/801288.html via now archived http://www.indystar.com/article/20110626/LOCAL/106260358

AbbeyR said:

CK: who lives in the apt between CR/MB and JR (cited in the same article as KW) who said the streets are totally safe at night, and who knows CR and MB but not really JR

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http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142099&page=20

Thank you, bx2!

I never read or heard this before. I find it very interesting and revealing; from the IM article BX2 linked to.

JUNE 3, 2011 / LATE AFTERNOON

Spierer’s father, Robert, receives a call from his other daughter, Rebecca, who tells him that Lauren’s friends have reported her missing to the Bloomington police. Robert calls Wolff, who is at the police station. Robert and wife Charlene immediately begin phoning hospitals and clinics in the Bloomington area to see if anyone matching Lauren’s description has been admitted.

-----------

I thought Wolff called the Spierer's.

And...we have hit on this once or twice before but it bears repeating: JW did not check to see if she had been hospitalized, he went straight to the police.

I wanted to share this video to point out that CR's lawyer at the time claimed they did not know who punched him (ZO). That makes sense with the memory loss but I found it interesting nonetheless. They claimed that they didn't know "who, what was said, or why." The who has been answered, but I think it's safe to say that there is no general consensus on what was said and/or why the altercation happened.

Also interesting - JW was supposedly communicating with LE:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/lauren-spierer-search-boyfriend-person-interest/story?id=13809364


I found this too: http://www.wishtv.com/news/local/south-central/search-for-spierer-whos-who
- Supposedly CR allowed them to search a lot of things (home, car, cell, DNA).
- Also interesting was the mention of AR who saw LS, was within some kind of group with her (hey! finally, another girl amongst the group), and said JW was NOT with the group that night.


Also: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...sappears-her-parents-exclusive-interview.html
- Weird how the Spierers once were so supportive of JW and then JW's parents completely lash out.



I've always thought the accidental death made the most sense. Jupiter's point made me think WHY did JW AND all of her friends/family jump to the conclusion that something bad may have happened so that they were either calling hospitals or filing missing persons reports? In the video linked above (there are three that will play one right after another, btw), the Spierers said that LS had NEVER shown any symptoms of long qt before. I still think that, if JW wasn't involved, something was still said to him/rumors were starting about LS' condition that night that freaked them all out (some of the early rumors come to mind, like foaming at the mouth, etc.). Something along those lines would also explain why his parents lashed out the way they did, even if it was completely inappropriate.

I understand that calling hospitals makes sense given her condition alone, but the snowball effect with everyone realizing very early on something bad really had happened makes me think that there had to have been some rumors going around, especially since JW's dad flew in.

Obviously, if JW was involved, that changes things, but I still think that for him to be involved LE needs to find the missing link, i.e., who recognized LS with CR, was close enough to JW to get in touch, and then somehow time it perfectly for LS to happen upon JW and/or connect JR to JW in a way that he would say that he was the last to see her when really he knew JW came and got her (if she was not capable of moving herself).

Just some thoughts I've been thinking about since everyone started going back to the first reported materials.

If JW was involved I don't think there had to be a direct connection/communication that evening to clue him in what was going on. Considering the close proximity of everyone, the sameness of their routines and local haunts, the fact there was a past history of some type with CR and LS, etc... JW could fit the pieces together if he suspected something might be happening that night between LS and CR (or anyone at 5N).

Stalking, spying... wouldn't be out of the question if he was a suspicious or jealous boyfriend.

It's why I still consider JW and the 5N group 1A and 1B when thinking of potential perpetrators. Means I don't know, but motive was certainly there. Add in the quick jump to 'missing' that next morning to the point of including LE and it makes him extremely interesting from the outside looking in. And apparently his motive is lacking considering the PI's not being willing to exclude him from their curiosity.

Jupiter812 said:

Is KT the African American who Tony Gatto spoke to and posted a pic or two on his blog? The guy Tony spoke to lived at 5N.

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I don't remember Gatto posting a picture of him (I only remember him posting pics of ZO's friends?) but yes, he's the one who lived at 5 N.

Thanks for digging up those links, Bx2. From the USA today article (June 9)

Salzmann, the lawyer, said after Spierer accompanied Rossman home to his apartment, Rossman's roommate put him to bed.The lawyer said Spierer was seen by at least two other people after leaving Rossman's apartment. He said Rossman was not the witness police said saw Spierer rounding a corner on her way home.

A neighbor at Rossman's building, KT, identified the man who reported seeing Spierer last as another neighbor who is good friends with Rossman.

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So, I wonder why KT -- a neighbor at 5 N -- was the one identifying JR to the media, when the POI themselves weren't saying anything and their lawyers were giving vague, misleading or no statements?

Here's another article that quotes KT (june 10):

KT lives two doors down from Rossman.

"I watched cops walking dogs down the street and banging on doors. I heard like random rumors at first, and then they came to a head,” said KT.

He says he didn't see Lauren Friday morning, but has seen her at the building before.

"I've seen her a few times throughout the school year it's my understanding she was at the neighbor's that night," added KT.

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http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Sea...123592499.html

I'm wondering how he came to this understanding, since the other people who ran into CR and MB walked away with totally different stories -- reporting that MB watched Lauren walk towards home, or that she left while he was upstairs? Who did KT hear 'rumors' from and how did things 'come to a head'? Did he speak directly to the POI? Did someone witness Lauren going to JR's? Would a rumor be enough to clarify this info to the media?

It's so strange, looking back, that JR's identity / whereabouts/ role wasn't known at all in the beginning -- and that CR and MB, as the two last 'known' people to be with Lauren, didn't just clarify this. Why did we learn about JR from "Ray", KT and HT?

I'm just finding it extremely curious that Lauren's dad is the one who calls JW. The IM (Indianapolis Monthly) article does make it sound like JW had not already called the Spierer's before reporting her missing. Furthermore, it makes it sound lkie Rebecca could have hear through HT rather than from JW. This makes me wonder if the family knew something was going on...something rocky in the relationship. After all, Lauren talked to her mother every day and they were close. Did JW feel guilty about something that perhaps had taken place shortly before her disappearance?

He had her phone. Surely Mom and Dad were in her contacts. He could have easily phoned them!

AbbeyR said:

I don't remember Gatto posting a picture of him (I only remember him posting pics of ZO's friends?) but yes, he's the one who lived at 5 N.

Thanks for digging up those links, Bx2. From the USA today article (June 9)



So, I wonder why KT -- a neighbor at 5 N -- was the one identifying JR to the media, when the POI themselves weren't saying anything and their lawyers were giving vague, misleading or no statements?

Here's another article that quotes KT (june 10):


http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Sea...123592499.html

I'm wondering how he came to this understanding, since the other people who ran into CR and MB walked away with totally different stories -- reporting that MB watched Lauren walk towards home, or that she left while he was upstairs? Who did KT hear 'rumors' from and how did things 'come to a head'? Did he speak directly to the POI? Did someone witness Lauren going to JR's? Would a rumor be enough to clarify this info to the media?

It's so strange, looking back, that JR's identity / whereabouts/ role wasn't known at all in the beginning -- and that CR and MB, as the two last 'known' people to be with Lauren, didn't just clarify this. Why did we learn about JR from "Ray", KT and HT?

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Gatto talked directly, I believe, to the neighbors I'm referring to, and posted a few photos, probably from Twitter or FB. My impression of them is they were straight up and Gatto thought so too. This makes sense because they were not part of Lauren's social clique! Consequently, they probably talked more freely and honestly too!

If they lived two doors down from CR who in turn lived two doors from JR then they would live in the first apt, closest to the corner of College and 11th.

sammi89 said:

I wanted to share this video to point out that CR's lawyer at the time claimed they did not know who punched him (ZO). That makes sense with the memory loss but I found it interesting nonetheless. They claimed that they didn't know "who, what was said, or why." The who has been answered, but I think it's safe to say that there is no general consensus on what was said and/or why the altercation happened.

Click to expand...

There seems to be a consensus from the witnesses though -- there's only one story: That Corey was acting aggressively and inappropriately and had attitude when they called him on it -- and you're right, Corey can't have a story because of his 'memory loss'.

I found this too: http://www.wishtv.com/news/local/south-central/search-for-spierer-whos-who
- Supposedly CR allowed them to search a lot of things (home, car, cell, DNA).

Click to expand...

I'm guessing they had a search warrant for the home, car and cell, so did he really 'allow' them to search or did he have a choice?

Jupiter812 said:

Gatto talked directly, I believe, to the neighbors I'm referring to, and posted a few photos, probably from Twitter or FB. My impression of them is they were straight up and Gatto thought so too. This makes sense because they were not part of Lauren's social clique! Consequently, they probably talked more freely and honestly too!

If they lived two doors down from CR who in turn lived two doors from JR then they would live in the first apt, closest to the corner of College and 11th.

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The only posts on his blog that I can find with Twitter/ facebook photos are about ZO/AB and friends (and the one about HT)-- I can't find anything about KT from Gatto. Am I missing it? If you remember where you saw/read this, could you link me up? (Thanks!)

The neighbors at 5 N may not be part of Lauren's social group, but what about the POI?

akh said:

If JW was involved I don't think there had to be a direct connection/communication that evening to clue him in what was going on. Considering the close proximity of everyone, the sameness of their routines and local haunts, the fact there was a past history of some type with CR and LS, etc... JW could fit the pieces together if he suspected something might be happening that night between LS and CR (or anyone at 5N).

Stalking, spying... wouldn't be out of the question if he was a suspicious or jealous boyfriend.

It's why I still consider JW and the 5N group 1A and 1B when thinking of potential perpetrators. Means I don't know, but motive was certainly there. Add in the quick jump to 'missing' that next morning to the point of including LE and it makes him extremely interesting from the outside looking in. And apparently his motive is lacking considering the PI's not being willing to exclude him from their curiosity.

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I agree in the sense that what you're saying makes sense as far as jealous boyfriends are concerned. However, I still think there should be a general link clueing JW in on the events unless he has acted in this manner before. I just think for him to be stalking and lurking for the length of time until she supposedly walked home is excessive unless he had some kind of history of excessively jealous behavior, which hasn't been reported (although, admittedly, I suppose he it could have happened and simply has not been reported).

AbbeyR said:

There seems to be a consensus from the witnesses though -- there's only one story: That Corey was acting aggressively and inappropriately and had attitude when they called him on it -- and you're right, Corey can't have a story because of his 'memory loss'.

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I should have clarified - I meant the specifics on what was said and why, although I think the why is probably answered in part by what you said (CR acting aggressively). I'm just curious whether the altercation was solely about this one encounter & CR's antics during it, or whether ZO/anyone in ZO's group had a history with CR that could have been at play too. I would also be interested in whether ZO or anyone in that group actually knew LS, or really, if they knew any of the other major players. I believe it was rumored that ZO & co. were JW's friends but I thought this turned out to be false, but I'm not sure.

AbbeyR said:

I'm guessing they had a search warrant for the home, car and cell, so did he really 'allow' them to search or did he have a choice?

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I agree with this. There probably were search warrants executed and LE has definitely mentioned their frustration with the lack of voluntary cooperation. I just thought it was important to note those things were at least supposedly looked into.

AbbeyR said:

It's so strange, looking back, that JR's identity / whereabouts/ role wasn't known at all in the beginning -- and that CR and MB, as the two last 'known' people to be with Lauren, didn't just clarify this. Why did we learn about JR from "Ray", KT and HT?

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I have always found that to be extremely odd as well. You would think that CR & MB would want that clarified asap.