Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

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Has anyone looked at Jan Andre Cotta yet?
http://www.nampn.org/cases/cotta_jan.html

At first glance this seems to be a fairly decent match, but there are some very large inconsistencies between the two.

Jane Cotta is said to have a club foot, but the Jane Doe did not.

She is said to have had a broken wrist, but the Jane Doe did not have any broken bones.

She wore a hearing aid, but the Jane Doe was not wearing one.

She was pregnant at the time of her disappearance, but the Jane Doe never had children. (unless she aborted the baby)

The biggest difference for me is the location of the mole. Cotta has a mole on the right side of her mouth and the Jane Doe has one on the left side of her mouth.


Jane Cotta is NOT Jane Doe.
 
The term "murder" in the title of this thread implies illegality, which hasn't been established here. The newspaper articles from The Item don't use that word either. A better word would be "homicide."
 
What makes you think this is not murder? Since when is shooting two people execution style not illegal? I don't get it. What is the point you are trying to make, and since when is homicide not illegal either?
 
Maxie Graham went missing 2 years AFTER the couple was found, DEFINITELY not Maxie.

I'm pretty sure there is something wrong with the dates, birthdate and/or date reported missing which is why I brought this up.
 
I'm pretty sure there is something wrong with the dates, birthdate and/or date reported missing which is why I brought this up.

There might be some ambiguity on his birthday(which is insignificant), but there is NO ambiguity on when he went missing it was POSITIVELY two years later. Here are some links. I want to put this to rest.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...=_H8iAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UKoFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2902,54723

Sumter, South Carolina: Unsolved/Cold Cases Files... - Crimeshots© True Crime Forums

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t4265.htm


<modsnip> I googled Maxie Graham missing and the first thing that came up was an article about Maxie Graham which clearly indicates he went missing in AUGUST OF 1978.
 
I don't see anything about him being an informant in these links, nor about him being a paratrooper. It wasn't until recently that either of these details were mentioned. If anyone can post something that can confirm these details, please do so.

I think either Jim Henry or Lonnie Henry participated in the murder. I lean towards Jim Henry. He originally bought the gun stolen, then he sold it to his brother. My guess is he thought he would be slick by grinding down the serial numbers so it could not be traced, but of course they did. After the murders he was a cheapskate and sold it to his brother. I can't imagine anyone riding around with a gun on their dashboard that had be used in a murder. Most professional hit-men dispose of the gun immediately afterwards. Then again criminals can be really dumb sometimes. Lonnie did pass the polygraph about participating in the murders, but failed the part about knowing of the murders and how he recieved the gun.

Another point that is important to mention that has not been mentioned before, the gun was sold to Jim Henry and two eyewitnesses confirmed this. This means that a set up is less likely. In other words the gun could have not been planted on Lonnie by the police.

Another possiblity is that Jim or Lonnie leant the gun to someone else.

Either Lonnie Henry or Jim Henry knows what happened!.....

Tear Drop, Sure they knew!

He had to know who had use of his 38/357 pistol...he had the gun with him in his truck..
IF someone borrowed it, they had to give it back to him..he knew/or did it.
passing a lie detector test doesnt prove anything to me when we know he drunk and who knows what else...being a snitch/informant.
I don't think anyone borrowed his gun..
his wife was in the hospital and I suspect he needed money...I have always wondered How this truck driver, Henry was an informant IF he was not hanging out and involved with illegal activities...and what did he get from LE for being an informant??...IMO...jmo
 
I think it's interesting in that case, the fact that there was a covert military execution in a remote field, then an unsuccessful local investigation. Also the foreign links, esp. to Mexico.
 
I just came upon this, very sad...and mysterious.
I don't have much to add except that 'Jock' is also nickname for Joaquin/Joachim, which could be Spanish, French,Dutch...there are many variations.
 
“The circumstances don't fit. They left Hawaii on a Trimaran sailing for Washington State. How did they get from there to South Carolina?”

I agree that the circumstances don’t seem to fit, especially at first glance, but I think there are some interesting similarities.

If you look at it from the McMinn’s perspective, it does not seem to fit, however if you look at it from the Sumter couple’s perspective, the gap from South Carolina to Washington State becomes much shorter. There is an account of a mechanic in York, NE (one of the few places in the US with a Grants Truck Stop, the same as the matches found in John Doe’s pocket) that recalled working on a van that he believes was driven by the Sumter couple. He remembered the van having Washington or Oregon plates. The McMinn’s have a connection to both states. The McMinn’s are from Oregon and they were expected to arrive in Port Angeles, WA at the end of their sailing trip from Hawaii. If the Sumter couple was first seen near the last place the McMinn’s went missing then the distances between the cases are much closer. The mechanics story is backed up by the fact he worked on a van and LE determined that they were taken to the crime scene in a van. Also, if you draw a map from Port Angeles, WA to Sumter, SC, it goes directly through York, NE.

The McMinns were last seen in late July, north of Washington State and the Sumter couple was first seen in early August at the Grants Truck Stop. This is mind bogglingly close together in both time and space. If you factored in the travel times between these two places you would have a near perfect match.

Also, I think it is important to mention that the McMinn’s were not intimidated by traveling long distances in short periods of time. They were both well traveled and experienced sailors. If they sailed from Hawaii to Port Angeles, WA then they would not have any problem traveling from Port Angles to Sumter.

Both circumstances point to foul play. At first, the McMinn’s disappearance seems to be most likely a sailing accident in the Pacific for whatever reason, but once you consider the number and reliability of the sightings near the Port Angles area it seems that the boat had in fact survived the long journey. So IMO one of the following must be true:




Of all of these possibilities I believe the following possibilities are most probable IMO:

1. The McMinns were involved in drug smuggling and were subsequently killed for unknown reasons.

2. The McMinns were high-jacked by a very desperate person, possibly a fugitive, who was waiting for an opportunity to flee into Canada.

3. The McMinns were high-jacked by a very desperate person, possibly a fugitive, and the high-jacker used the navigation charts he had currently available in the boat to travel to Port Angeles and the high-jacker was navigating the boat at the time of the sightings.

As it relates to the Sumter murders I think it is possible that the following is possible:

The McMinns left Hawaii in May of 1976 with a load of contraband. They arrived in Port Angeles in June. They immediately called the person they were instructed to deliver the drugs to. This person had been arrested which caused the McMinns to panic. Fearing that they were being investigated as well and that they would be arrested themselves they immediately fled. They fled without first contacting friends or family, possibly concealing the fact that had arrived in the mainland. In Late July, once the hunt for them intensified, they fled south to Sumter at which time the criminal organization dispatched a hit-man to kill the couple so that the others in the organization would not be compromised by the potentially incriminating information that McMinn’s knew. The boat was probably scuttled by the McMinns, the drug organization, or the high-jackers depending on what scenario you subscribe to.

Great work Tear drop, and everyone else who has contributed, you guys have really put in some hard work on this. I hope that DNA comes back soon.

It's not like it's an obscure case and there may be a lot to lose for some people if it does get solved, but for the sake of the families of this couple I do hope they have an answer soon.

Justice may not get served in this lifetime though, I fear.

I also think that the McMinn couple are very probably Jacques (Jock) and Jane Doe. The photos of them are very similar, in so far as to say that Jacques' nose is identical to that of Michael McMinn to my eye, and I'm a trained artist. I can't see much difference between them at all.

Considering that both these people were shot 'under their chins' I'd imagine there was enough facial distortion to make identification difficult.

Perhaps this was deliberately done by the killer?

There's so much 'circumstantial' evidence around this case that it almost has to be the McMinns.

The possible connection to the Georgia racing team dope smuggling ring ties in with the execution style murders, and a message being sent through those murders to other members of the syndicate has complete viable possibility if you consider that maybe the shirt that Jacques (Jock) was wearing may well have been given to him to put on at gun point by his killers?

Why?

Possibly, because the killers knew this couple were the McMinns and were aware that they were thought to be missing at sea so, if they killed them without any identification on their persons, no one would know who they were, and as a result there would be a mystery in regard to their identities.
The fact that the male 'DOE' was wearing a Coors Sebring Racing team t shirt would be inevitably mentioned in the news, thereby publicizing the brutality of the syndicate.

Could it be that the McMinns may have, in the previous year, 1975, when they were met at the campground, been working for the Coors Sebring Georgia Racing team dope smugglers (hence the false story of history/identity, which someone once remarked on here was like 'straight out of a Victorian novel')?

It's weird that these two were seen with a government agent of some type in Sumter County and then they wind up dead and unidentified for so long.

You'd think that if they were picked up by the police and then killed in a mix up during a police set up then their identities would be known and most certainly on file?

The couple were seen at a fruit stand and yet they were found with the remains of both fruit and ice cream in their stomachs.

Was the fruit stand a place where they rendezvoused with someone?

Was there ice cream being sold at the fruit stand or did someone they were with that day invite them to his home to eat their fruit with ice cream?

I wonder if that grocery store cashier recalls 'the agent' purchasing any ice cream?
 
McMinn's DNA are finally processed
John McMinn DNA Status: Sample submitted - Tests complete

Cordelia McMinn DNA Status: Sample submitted - Tests complete

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Wonder why they're still not listed in NamUs? I'll see if I can touch base with Todd again. Hopefully he can tell me if they're in there but not seen by us.

Is anyone in contact with the ME or sheriff's office?

John & Jane Doe (1976) - Over the years, the fingerprints of both subjects have been periodically resubmitted to the FBI database to see if any new information may have been entered somewhere that may help solve their identities. In 2007, the bodies were exhumed by a team of our forensic investigators, then Coroner Verna Moore, agents from the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division (SLED) and forensic pathologists from Newberry Pathology to get samples to be submitted into the state, national and international DNA databases.

If you have any information about this case, please call us at 803-436-2002 or email us adailey@sumtercountysc.org with the information and we’ll follow up on it immediately. If you wish to remain anonymous, please go to our Anonymous Tips submission page and submit your information, or you can call Crime Stoppers at 803-436-2718.
 
Just wondering if the DNA genealogical tests could be used in cases such as this one? I don't know that much about them but believe that they can provide information about country of origin of relatives. I keep getting emails from one such site claiming that they can trace my paternal line for one price, or if I pay more they can do both sides of the family. It wouldn't identify these two but at least we would know if we should be looking for answers in South America or Europe or wherever.
 
I came across William Underhill missing since 1969 from St Paul, MN. Height is a match (73-75 inches) compared to 6 1/4 feet; Hair and eye color are Brown with Hazel; Weight is listed as 170-180, compared to 150 for the John Doe. He might have been brought up in the past, but I'm not sure. I didn't see it in the thread. There are no rule outs listed for William Underhill on NAMUS.
William had childhood polio (not sure what signs this might leave as an adult); Also had a dislocated shoulder as a teen (might be consistent with John Doe's contact sports injuries). No dental records or jewerly for William are noted in NAMUS.
Here's his NAMUS link & his photo.
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/20774/0
36865
 
If its true that jock was a Canadian who gave up on his medical career then the phrasing he used "gave up"sounds like he was at least enrolled in medical school at one point, probably not long before he was killed if he was taking a vacation. So has anyone advertised in alumni magazine for Canadian medical schools? Even facebook might have old class photos etc. Perhaps we could have a look for these online.
 
Just wondering if the DNA genealogical tests could be used in cases such as this one? I don't know that much about them but believe that they can provide information about country of origin of relatives. I keep getting emails from one such site claiming that they can trace my paternal line for one price, or if I pay more they can do both sides of the family. It wouldn't identify these two but at least we would know if we should be looking for answers in South America or Europe or wherever.

Dor $99 the company 23andme will do fairly extensive testing - genomic, mitochondrial, and (for males) y-chromosome testing. I had my DNA tested (I am female), and they gave me a lot of info that matched very closely with what I have found via genealogical research. I wish they would do this type of testing for all unidentified people!
 
It sure looks like the McMinns are the couple who was killed. They look identical to the other photos. Have you heard any official word on this case?
 
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