CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #4

I ran across this blog, and found it fascinating. You can spend hours reading her entries looking for leads or clues.

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=389
"One year ago today Morgan’s stalking started"

The family posts this on August 2nd.

Their daughter was stalked for 4 months, and in Dec of 2011 she died under mysterious circustances. There was no investigation.

The family has been posting events on the one year anniversary of the occurance each day leading up until her death.

So they will be posting every day until December.

Their site apparently is now getting over 40,000 hits a day as more and more people are reading about what they went through, and what little was done by police enforcement to catch the stalker and also to investigate her death.

The blog format is a bit conufusing. After each daily post, there is a separate comment section, and then also you scroll back up and hit 'next'
to read the next days post.

There are a months worth of posts now, and it seems there will be plenty to read in the coming weeks. They have been incredibly responsive to comments and also incredibly appreciative.

I'm curious to everybody's thoughts and insight on this.

May we discuss it?


Here are some ground rules for posting on this unique case:


1)no bashing of the family
2)no sleuthing of the family
3)discuss the blog posts
4)do not copy and paste blog comments
5)no speculation on mental illness of the family or Morgan (there is nothing in the msm to back this up)
6)use the alert button to communicate any posts that you have a question with
7)leave the snark and personal attacks at the door

......

after reviewing the entire thread I will also add on sleuthing the parents' property..
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8347609#post8347609"]no discussion timeline/media/photo thread[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183957"]thread #1[/ame]
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8371203#post8371203"]thread #2[/ame]
thread #3



important! Please read:

reminder:
Unless you are a VERIFIED expert in pharmacology,toxicology,pathology or an area of expertise more specifically related to the issue of Morgan's tox results- We need to link information regarding interpreting the data as it relates to her postmortem blood levels.

We already know that experts themselves are not in complete agreement and the issue is very complex so we need to be careful about posting data as fact when none of us, to date, are verified experts in this field.

You can discuss the issue in general terms but if anything specific regarding the interpretation of the data it must be linked to the source of the information . Posts that do not comply will be removed.


Thank you so much!

Click to expand...

link to Tricia's interview this past Sunday:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8368051&postcount=56"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Websleuths Radio Archived Shows[/ame]

or listen here:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2012/09/17/websleuths-radio

link to the question only/no discussion thread: (thanks JBean!)

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185307"]**NO DISCUSSION** Morgan Ingram-The Questions **LIST ONLY** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

TI made another comment on latest blog entry, with an interesting bit of info.

<modsnip>
http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=1312#comments

Sorry, nurse! :blush:

In my previous post link (blog comment), TI says that M's body looked posed, and she had never seen M look like that in all the times she ever went in her room and found her sleeping.

The comment Cazzie is referring to mentions TI thinking the body has been posed.

Again, this is based on the mother's opinion. There is no crime scene report indicating that the body was posed, that there was an assault, or that this is even a crime scene.

armcha1r_detect1ve said:

The comment Cazzie is referring to mentions TI thinking the body has been posed.

Again, this is based on the mother's opinion. There is no crime scene report indicating that the body was posed, that there was an assault, or that this is even a crime scene.

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Not to be graphic, but most deceased do appear posed to me. We also do not know if she was feeling any pains during those last moments that would cause the body to be in any sort of position.

However, I must think that if there was a killer in the house, they sure spent a long time with her waiting for the death moment to pose her.

21merc7 said:

Not to be graphic, but most deceased do appear posed to me. We also do not know if she was feeling any pains during those last moments that would cause the body to be in any sort of position.

However, I must think that if there was a killer in the house, they sure spent a long time with her waiting for the death moment to pose her.

Click to expand...

My interpretation of TI's words is that there was something (even minor) about her position that looked posed...not necessarily something extreme or grotesque.

It seems possible to me for someone to adminster (or force her to ingest liquid), wait a half hour or so, and when she was asleep/comatose, "tuck her in" (pose her) and leave. I'm basing the half hour on what I think I read in some of the info posted in the previous thread. JMO.

I see cazzie.

I'm just afraid everything we suggest becomes a part of what was happening. I sort of wish we knew nothing about it until it was all posted.

Good grief, we had serial killer mentioned yesterday.

Realms fantastic are not helping with the case or the grieving process. If they can't keep to what is/was in their grieving minds, it will only make it harder.

ETA: I feel we are enabling a stuck point of grief sometimes.

posed how is my question (not doubting just wondering)

she normally looks like ______________ but was like __________________

I do believe that Morgan and her family were terrorized by at least 2 individuals. I am having a hard time with the idea of murder.

Unless the mom and dad are under the advice of counsel not to release the pictures, videos and details...I would ask that the family fast forward this process and finalize the story with the details so that everyone can move this along and get them the resources they need to get this reopened.

I firmly believe that if everything that is being alluded to is true, then let's get this all laid out now so that we can get this reopened IMMEDIATELY. I do not see any benefit for the possible professionals looking at this to wait until December 2nd for the rest of the story. IMHO, it benefits no one. It seems as if the country is all waiting and watching...why not release it all and get this moving now?

I address to this Morgan's Father...please go ahead and release everything now. You have many people that care and want to see this resolved. There is no doubt that you probably have many professionals looking at this too. If you are under the advice of LE not to release this, then I say you may want to see what a good attorney has to say about that. If LE and the ME botched this like you believe, they have everything to lose and their motives should be questioned. This is all my opinion and I hope the best for you. No matter what happened to Morgan in December, we are all here to help in any way that we can.

In re: porphyria, it seems to be a type of inherited disease. It's an autosomal dominant, and each child of an affected parent runs a 50% risk of inheriting the disease.

Testing is not difficult, as it can be done via urine during an attack. The confirmation of the presence of porphobilinogen, or PBG. If it's positive, then other tests are conducted and the diagnosis is confirmed.

Another way to test for it would be to test the mitochondria. The disease affects the heme, part of the blood, and could be preliminarily tested for that way, as well.

What is difficult is arriving at a differential diagnosis, to start the testing. The symptoms of an AIP attack can be easily misinterpreted for many other illnesses, and those, as they are far more common, need to be ruled out.

It would seem to me that it would be an easy DNA/genetic test to see if either parent carried the gene. If so, then there's a 50% chance that Morgan did. If not, then that COD is ruled out completely.

Further, it would not have been difficult for the ME/coroner to order a blood test to determine if there was a heme issue.

Considering there was a mention of the illness to the ME at some point (from what I understand, it was from the father trying to explain any issue that might have contributed to Morgan's death; although he made clear that it was not a positive dx), a conpetent ME/Coroner would have taken the blood sample and tested it for AIP, or, failing that, would have gotten some genetic testing from the parents, before labeling it as a COD/contributing factor of Morgan's death.

This is basic medicine. The fact that this was not confirmed leaves me gobsmacked. Just gobsmacked.

Best-
Herding Cats

Links:
http://www.diagnosingaip.com/diagnostic-pathway.html

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/205220-overview

I'm having a real hard time here trying to figure out what we can sleuth and what we're actually supposed to be doing here. (Not referring to anyone specific here) ... My understanding was originally that we were supposed to read the blog, look at what was written and try to figure out - if a crime was committed (stalking and/or murder), what crime/s may have been committed, how the crime was committed, possibly a generalized 'who' may have committed the crime, etc., but it seems more like all we've been managing to do most of the time is either challange everything stated in the blog because of no physical evicence to support it, or defend the parents because we believe they're writing the truth as they know it and are as frustrated as anyone else with the lack of physical evidence.

I really don't see how it would be possible to determine anything I thought we were here to figure out if everything presented to look at is (directly at times, indirectly at other times) considered to be a lie, a mistake or imagination unless/until someone whose interests would be better served by keeping everything quiet says publicly that it's true. I guess my biggest question is: are we supposed to be trying to figure out what may have caused the events in the blog to happen, or are we supposed to be determining which events written about happened as written?

TIA for any answers.

In re: pulmonary edema (or fluid in the lungs). Some causes of that are:

Cardiogenic
Acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDs)
Kidney failure
Trauma/poison/drug inhalation
Lung infections
Severe long lasting seizures
Pulmonary embolism
and several other causes (e.g. high altitude...assent to a high altitude +10,000 ft in a rapid and sustained manner).

In all of those, as relates to Morgan, I suspect (as I said on either thread 1 or 2) that the drugs caused a fatal left sided arrhythmia of the heart, which led to the pulmonary edema, which led to her death.

Best-
Herding Cats

Link:
http://www.medicinenet.com/pulmonary_edema/page2.htm#what_causes_pulmonary_edema

Cazzie said:

My interpretation of TI's words is that there was something (even minor) about her position that looked posed...not necessarily something extreme or grotesque.

It seems possible to me for someone to adminster (or force her to ingest liquid), wait a half hour or so, and when she was asleep/comatose, "tuck her in" (pose her) and leave. I'm basing the half hour on what I think I read in some of the info posted in the previous thread. JMO.

Click to expand...

Caz, the half hour came from Dr. D's assessment, and was brought into the conversation by Morgan's mother either via the blog or the radio interview.

Best-
Herding Cats

Cazzie said:

Sorry, nurse! :blush:

In my previous post link (blog comment), TI says that M's body looked posed, and she had never seen M look like that in all the times she ever went in her room and found her sleeping.

Click to expand...

can you post a date & time TI posted that comment? I looked at the link and can't find it

LadyL said:

can you post a date & time TI posted that comment? I looked at the link and can't find it

Click to expand...

I'd have to look for it.

But see HerdingCats' post just above yours.

Confusion said:

I'm having a real hard time here trying to figure out what we can sleuth and what we're actually supposed to be doing here. (Not referring to anyone specific here) ... My understanding was originally that we were supposed to read the blog, look at what was written and try to figure out - if a crime was committed (stalking and/or murder), what crime/s may have been committed, how the crime was committed, possibly a generalized 'who' may have committed the crime, etc., but it seems more like all we've been managing to do most of the time is either challange everything stated in the blog because of no physical evicence to support it, or defend the parents because we believe they're writing the truth as they know it and are as frustrated as anyone else with the lack of physical evidence.

I really don't see how it would be possible to determine anything I thought we were here to figure out if everything presented to look at is (directly at times, indirectly at other times) considered to be a lie, a mistake or imagination unless/until someone whose interests would be better served by keeping everything quiet says publicly that it's true. I guess my biggest question is: are we supposed to be trying to figure out what may have caused the events in the blog to happen, or are we supposed to be determining which events written about happened as written?

TIA for any answers.

Click to expand...

Confusion, I am operating under the premise that we are trying to help the mother and father find answers to how and why their daughter died.

I would hope that everyone realize that there is a real, live, grieving family reading here, and treat them with the respect they deserve. There are some very real questions as to how this stalking and death were investigated (or not), and those need to be resolved.

Best-
Herding Cats

Confusion said:

I guess my biggest question is: are we supposed to be trying to figure out what may have caused the events in the blog to happen, or are we supposed to be determining which events written about happened as written?

TIA for any answers.

Click to expand...

I think we are all confused.

Without any facts, no one can decide, we all go in circles.

Not much to try to work with, we have exhausted what little there is of what the family thinks is evidence to support their theory.

I do hope they seek help from appropriate professional areas for their answers.