MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #5

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Tricia

Tricia

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From the Jacob Wetterling Resource Center - http://www.jwrc.org/


Jacob on NamUs - https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/4026/0/
NCMEC - http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US
Charley Project - http://charleyproject.org/cases/w/wetterling_jacob.html
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jacob-Wetterling/167225663309354
 
Trying to catch up on old posts, but just wanted to jump in and point out that too much emphasis should not be put on the boys height and weight descriptions of the perp. Adults have a hard time describing details after the fact, and as someone with kids I can tell you they are terrible at guaging heights and weights and ages. Especially while with a gun on them, lying in a ditch at night.

I have been held up at gun point, in broad daylight, and had a hard time describing the guy and his clothes afterwards. There is no fear like having a gun pointed at you. I'd assume that the authorities wanted a general idea of any details about the guy that they could get, but can't put too much stock in it.

Plus I think DR probably went in and put on some bulky clothes and spoke in a weird voice intentionally to try and "disguise" himself albeit poorly.

Whoever pointed out that it makes no sense for anyone but DR to have been able to run and put on dark clothes and a mask made an excellent point. We are to accept that there was a party of pedos in the woods and they travel with masks and dark clothes?

I think the simplest answer is usually the right one and all of these other crazy theories just don't make sense. Especially when you take into account the fact that DR's parents were out of the country (for the first time?).

jmho :)
 
jenilou said:
Trying to catch up on old posts, but just wanted to jump in and point out that too much emphasis should not be put on the boys height and weight descriptions of the perp. Adults have a hard time describing details after the fact, and as someone with kids I can tell you they are terrible at guaging heights and weights and ages. Especially while with a gun on them, lying in a ditch at night.

I have been held up at gun point, in broad daylight, and had a hard time describing the guy and his clothes afterwards. There is no fear like having a gun pointed at you. I'd assume that the authorities wanted a general idea of any details about the guy that they could get, but can't put too much stock in it.

Plus I think DR probably went in and put on some bulky clothes and spoke in a weird voice intentionally to try and "disguise" himself albeit poorly.

Whoever pointed out that it makes no sense for anyone but DR to have been able to run and put on dark clothes and a mask made an excellent point. We are to accept that there was a party of pedos in the woods and they travel with masks and dark clothes?

I think the simplest answer is usually the right one and all of these other crazy theories just don't make sense. Especially when you take into account the fact that DR's parents were out of the country (for the first time?).

jmho :)
Click to expand...

I agree about DR trying to disguise his voice..if in fact DR was the perp. He has a very distinctive voice, almost effeminate, jmo.
 
JerseyJo said:
I agree about DR trying to disguise his voice..if in fact DR was the perp. He has a very distinctive voice, almost effeminate, jmo.
Click to expand...

Being a music teacher and even being involved in choral things makes voice disguise very easy.

But, it could have been a pedo visitor to the DR home.

The revelations of the activities of the pedo priests is astounding. The travel to foreign countries with kids. The cabins. Ugh.

They could have done it together if there was a special visitor. Car awaiting

Runners are really strong.
 
Human,

I recall reading in previous posts that you were involved in the search efforts. Do you recall what areas you searched? Specifically, do you recall coming across this "party spot" in the woods across from the Rassier Farm?
 
marlins said:
Human,

I recall reading in previous posts that you were involved in the search efforts. Do you recall what areas you searched? Specifically, do you recall coming across this "party spot" in the woods across from the Rassier Farm?
Click to expand...

I was with a group of friends that searched areas that were different. Nowhere near the site. I was not in the group, but one of our group was given specific information about a place. Address and everything. It turned out no such place existed.

At the time, DR was not on anyone's radar screen. I have no idea when he got on the list and why.

At the time,everyone thought he had been taken away from the area in a car.

This was such an unusual event that I think no one knew any if the information that they do now about crimes of this nature.

It would be nice to know if people knew about the party spot.

One would think it would have been investigated,

I think at the time much more info was given to media and I do not recall any discussion of a party spot.

It just boggles my mind that Kevin and the rest of the family he was seeing at the time did not give info to LE. Even info about the party spot. So strange.

If you recall the pleas were so numerous and everywhere, TV,,radio, newspaper,,billboards, vigils, concerts,

It makes me wonder if anyone else knows something they have never told for some obscure reason.

I hope if it has anything to do with the pervert situation at the college that they do not believe that they are absolved. They are on a one way ticket and it is not to heaven.
 
marlins said:
Curious, Does anyone know precisely where the search dogs lost the scent of jacob? I know that his footprints abruptly vanished several feet away from the curve in the driveway. http://saintautumn.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/stjoe2.jpg
Click to expand...

I have read where it ended, but I forget.

I lost faith in dogs when I followed the Somer Thompson case , maybe four or so years ago.

It was Florida and she was killed right in the home of the perp.

The dogs had gone into the yard of the perp and no indication at all of them taking any scent.

The pervert was found because former roommates insisted to LE that there was something hinky about him and they were right!
 
I vaguely recall something about the dogs losing the scent about halfway up the driveway.

Marlins: Off topic a bit, but you mentioned the Reker girls earlier and when I was looking for info in my post on the last thread on suspects, I found this reference to their case that had a lot of info and names I had never seen before. I thought you might be interested.

http://open.salon.com/blog/laura_wi...ders_of_mary_and_susanne_reker_minnesota_1974
 
shergal said:
I vaguely recall something about the dogs losing the scent about halfway up the driveway.

Marlins: Off topic a bit, but you mentioned the Reker girls earlier and when I was looking for info in my post on the last thread on suspects, I found this reference to their case that had a lot of info and names I had never seen before. I thought you might be interested.

http://open.salon.com/blog/laura_wi...ders_of_mary_and_susanne_reker_minnesota_1974
Click to expand...

That is so chilling. The cover up of the Catholic church! Shame!

Heaven is not smiling or welcoming.
 
Human,
Thanks for the detailed response concerning your roll in the search efforts.
Even though I was 7 years old at the time of Jacob's abduction, I vividly remember the effects it had on the community (I grew up in st. cloud)... I remember the reports of the white van and the different police composites that were released to the media.
Why it took Kevin so many years to report his role at the scene is very odd. Maybe, he figured that his conversation with the police at the scene was recorded and didnt feel a need to elaborate further?
 
O/T: I don't think the problem lies just with the catholic church.

Anyway, on Joy Baker's blog, in the July 7th entry Joy writes
Patty mentioned that, although she had never let her own kids go to the Tom Thumb after dark before, there was another boy who lived in their neighborhood who went there on a regular basis. What if he had been the real target? What if Jacob had simply been a victim of circumstance… a kid who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Click to expand...

So... does anyone know if this other boys background and those around him were ever looked into? It could lead to the identity of who took JW...
 
shergal said:
I vaguely recall something about the dogs losing the scent about halfway up the driveway.

Marlins: Off topic a bit, but you mentioned the Reker girls earlier and when I was looking for info in my post on the last thread on suspects, I found this reference to their case that had a lot of info and names I had never seen before. I thought you might be interested.

http://open.salon.com/blog/laura_wi...ders_of_mary_and_susanne_reker_minnesota_1974
Click to expand...

Shergal,

Thanks for posting the link to this article. The Reker's were neighbors when I was a child and remain family friends. On a sad note, Fred (the father) recently passed away. So sad that he never received closure.
 
buffetoflies said:
O/T: I don't think the problem lies just with the catholic church.

Anyway, on Joy Baker's blog, in the July 7th entry Joy writes

So... does anyone know if this other boys background and those around him were ever looked into? It could lead to the identity of who took JW...
Click to expand...

I've never heard anything about it, so no idea whose boy it would be. But since the abductor looked in the boys faces before telling Aaron and Trevor to leave, you'd think he'd have known Jacob was not some other neighbor boy - supposing he knew who he was looking for.
 
Have been re-reading old threads + posts...one in particular caught my attention: Crimesolver #314, 10-4-2009 which is an aerial photo of the abduction site with the abduction spot and the end of Jacob's footprints indicated. Studying this image made me think of 3 items:

1. Perps physical description. Someone mentioned that Trevor's description of the perp may not be reliable as the boys were under extreme duress. That is understandable. However, I wondered about DR's height as it relates to Trevor's description(same as Merle he said.....that being 5'10", 180) It appears that Jerry Wetterling is tall...maybe 6'1", 6'2" so these 2 men would be good references for size for the boys. If DR is 6'1" or 6'2" then that would be a big discrepancy. If DR is in the 5'10"-11" range then the issue is irrelevant as he fits within Trevor's description. Tall people also typically have larger feet thus leading to item #2

2. Prints...as in footprints. Looking at Crimesolver's aerial photo...it appears the perp grabbed Jacob at the intersection of the paved road and DR's road and forcibly 'walked him' due East ON THE GRAVEL ROAD and proceeded East until the 3rd pole(1989) or 2nd pole today as 1 was removed. If this is indeed what happened, then this is the only physical evidence of the abduction and is really a 'recording' of the abduction. There should have been 2 sets of foot prints: Jacob's and the perp's. I don't know what became of these footprints...if Kevin's car obliterated them or LE drove over or walked over them...or even DR as he stated in his latest video that he walked to the abduction spot later in the evening to talk with an officer. In any event, I haven't seen any disagreement on this abduction sequence leading to item #3

3. Possibilities....there seems to be a debate between perp on foot and perp in car. Returning mentally to the aerial map, it appears both are plausible generally speaking.
a. Perp on foot....if DR is indeed the perp, then at that point where Jacob's footprints dug into the gravel, something must have happened. If it was resistance on Jacob's part then DR would have had to subdue him in order to carry him further to the farmstead.....if he did this then one would think DR's footprints would angle off the gravel and onto the grass. Not sure if they did or not or if both sets of footprints simply stopped in the gravel. Even though DR is athletic and a seasoned runner, Jacob at 11 years old and 5' tall and athletic could be tough to handle. And also....if DR was leading Jacob down the road would that be as quick as if he had made a beeline in the grass towards the farmstead?
b. Perp in car....for this to succeed of course the car would have to be parked far enough east to be out of view and also out of view from the farmhouse. On a moonless night I have no idea how far that would be on that road. Looking at the aerial map, one can see how long DR's driveway is and how thick the trees are even though the picture shows the deciduous trees without their leaves. The direct manner in which the perp grabs Jacob and walks East and then the footprints end abruptly suggests to me a car scenario plausibility.
 
Could be. And that could be two of them working together. DR and a priest friend. Who would have the guts to park way up in that driveway and kidnap a child if they did not feel really comfortable with the people who own the house?.

I live in the country and people in the country have weapons and protective guard dogs. Every single person in my hood has one or two dogs that are not friendly to strangers especially on their property.

DR had a dog and that dog should have been going wild with anyone on the property.

We walk a few miles every day and the neighbor dogs bark before we hit the edge of someone's property and they continue barking for awhile as we leave the property. And this is on the road! We do not even enter the property.
 
cGorg said:
Have been re-reading old threads + posts...one in particular caught my attention: Crimesolver #314, 10-4-2009 which is an aerial photo of the abduction site with the abduction spot and the end of Jacob's footprints indicated. Studying this image made me think of 3 items:

1. Perps physical description. Someone mentioned that Trevor's description of the perp may not be reliable as the boys were under extreme duress. That is understandable. However, I wondered about DR's height as it relates to Trevor's description(same as Merle he said.....that being 5'10", 180) It appears that Jerry Wetterling is tall...maybe 6'1", 6'2" so these 2 men would be good references for size for the boys. If DR is 6'1" or 6'2" then that would be a big discrepancy. If DR is in the 5'10"-11" range then the issue is irrelevant as he fits within Trevor's description. Tall people also typically have larger feet thus leading to item #2

2. Prints...as in footprints. Looking at Crimesolver's aerial photo...it appears the perp grabbed Jacob at the intersection of the paved road and DR's road and forcibly 'walked him' due East ON THE GRAVEL ROAD and proceeded East until the 3rd pole(1989) or 2nd pole today as 1 was removed. If this is indeed what happened, then this is the only physical evidence of the abduction and is really a 'recording' of the abduction. There should have been 2 sets of foot prints: Jacob's and the perp's. I don't know what became of these footprints...if Kevin's car obliterated them or LE drove over or walked over them...or even DR as he stated in his latest video that he walked to the abduction spot later in the evening to talk with an officer. In any event, I haven't seen any disagreement on this abduction sequence leading to item #3

3. Possibilities....there seems to be a debate between perp on foot and perp in car. Returning mentally to the aerial map, it appears both are plausible generally speaking.
a. Perp on foot....if DR is indeed the perp, then at that point where Jacob's footprints dug into the gravel, something must have happened. If it was resistance on Jacob's part then DR would have had to subdue him in order to carry him further to the farmstead.....if he did this then one would think DR's footprints would angle off the gravel and onto the grass. Not sure if they did or not or if both sets of footprints simply stopped in the gravel. Even though DR is athletic and a seasoned runner, Jacob at 11 years old and 5' tall and athletic could be tough to handle. And also....if DR was leading Jacob down the road would that be as quick as if he had made a beeline in the grass towards the farmstead?
b. Perp in car....for this to succeed of course the car would have to be parked far enough east to be out of view and also out of view from the farmhouse. On a moonless night I have no idea how far that would be on that road. Looking at the aerial map, one can see how long DR's driveway is and how thick the trees are even though the picture shows the deciduous trees without their leaves. The direct manner in which the perp grabs Jacob and walks East and then the footprints end abruptly suggests to me a car scenario plausibility.
Click to expand...

All good points - and thanks for realizing the 2nd pole today wasn't the 2nd pole in 1989. However, I believe it was the 2nd pole in 1989 for Jacob's footprints (and his scent) ended. I had wondered about this for a long time - but found an article that stated his prints ended about 40 yards up the driveway - which would have been the 2nd pole in 1989.
 
ELOCsoul,

thanks for the clarification on Jacob's footprints ending on the 2nd pole(1989). 40 yards up the driveway....not that far. And after reading Joy's blog this morning regarding drivers + cars it seems even more plausible that a vehicle was used. If a car was waiting, then the perp planned a quick exit and thus was not worried about releasing the other 2 boys knowing they would alert the police very soon.
 
Good point about the lack of the perps footprints at the crime scene. I guess this fact never really dawned on me. Maybe this is just another example of faulty police work, or maybe the perp was walking in the grass beside the driveway?
 
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