IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9

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nikkiw319

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http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ev...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

http://www.kwwl.com/story/19023342/evansdale-police-searching-for-two-missing-girls

These girls have been missing all afternoon and the search was suspended tonight now that it's dark here. We're a small town next to a larger city but a small police force that has likely never dealt with missing kids.. Bikes found on the trail and purse and phone had been thrown over the fence near the bikes but the other side of the fence is a hill leading to the highway. Right now the search is very disorganized and there aren't any flyers :(.


thread #1
thread #2
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Thread #5
Thread #6
thread #7
Thread #8
Scanner thread: remember anything in the scanner thread stays in the scanner thread

case map by poster hollye

NCMEC posters:
http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US
http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US
 
Please remember the following when discussing the case:
Websleuths is a moderated forum. We strive to discuss cases in a friendly environment.

Things to know before you post:
Leave the snark -- and the rumors --at the door.
Treat other posters with respect.
Do not sleuth individuals who have not been mentioned in MSM either as persons of interest or as suspects by LE.
Choose the links you post wisely; don't link to sites which feature bizarre speculation, etc.
If you have questions or concerns about a post, alert on that post and contact a mod. Do not quote and/or reply to the post. If you do, and the post is subsequently deleted, your post is subject to deletion, as well.
If you have other questions in general, scroll to the bottom of the page and find "View forum leaders." There you will find a list of moderators available if you need to PM one.
Remember: you can disagree with a post and address it, but you do NOT attack the poster.

No one has been named by LE or MSM as a POI or suspect in this case.
The parents, whatever you may personally think about them, have not been named.
That means that they, and their families, their neighbors, and their friends and "associates," are not to be sleuthed or badmouthed.

Please continue here...
 
Sorry had to bring this post over the old way......


Originally Posted by SapphireSteel
I've started a file, for the first time ever. I thought it would all over by now, but I guess I'm not immune to the CSI effect either.

I get caught occasionally with assumptions, well all do, but some folks form opinions when it's clear they haven't read one word of msm or any other posters' answers or links. Others of us try really hard to separate the facts from the fiction but you've only just sorted out one lot, and someone else comes along with another misconception. It's like herding cats!

There is a lot of contradictions in this one, it is really really hard to keep it all straight but it doesn't help when people mistake opinion as fact, or keep asking questions that have been answered a page ago, or even via google.

Sorry. Rant over.

I can't even blame coffee or lack of sleep...maybe just the shock and horror of the picture I now see taking shape in my head. I would be delighted if I were wrong.








As far as I know, the official timeline DOES NOT include any sighting by the man on the bike or the running man. All I have seen is the approx 12:something video and the bikes being found at 3:58. Nothing else official
 
I believe Ms Breault meant "cyclist" when she said "runner"...mistake, or, perhaps there is another witness?

I took it to mean TG but he was on a bike that day and "swerved" to miss the bikes which were laying halfway across the park.

On the last thread someone posted that the bikes had been found in a different position, is there a link for this?

TIA.
 
SapphireSteel said:
I believe Ms Breault meant "cyclist" when she said "runner"...mistake, or, perhaps there is another witness?

I took it to mean TG but he was on a bike that day and "swerved" to miss the bikes which were laying halfway across the park.

On the last thread someone posted that the bikes had been found in a different position, is there a link for this?

TIA.
Click to expand...




Well, I'm not going to second guess Ms Breault and like I said on my post on the last thread, I believe LE is intentionally leaving the timeline and witnesses vague. Why I don't know.
 
MotherOcean
Registered User


Quote:

After watching that video I am now convinced she has absolutely nothing to do with this abduction.

Everyone was jumping on Sierra LaMar's family too, suspecting things based on the statements made by her mother. Clearly we can learn from that mistake that people are not always right on with their assessments of "hinky" behavior.
I see nothing hinky during this video. I have noticed that MCM, though she is often seen smiling in videos, is fairly consistent in one thing. There is usually some point in the conversation when her eyes squint, turn red, and there is a tiny flash of pain in them. It is brief and she composes herself quickly but it is there. I think this lady has been through so much. She has probably gone through things in her life and thought nothing could be any worse. I myself have a very high tolerance for emotionally straining events. There are things that are horrible to other people and yet they seem almost normal to me. Really, our pasts do define how we face current happenings. If she has been through very hard times she may have gotten to a place in life where she has just learned to set her jaw, stiffen her upper lip and plow through the problem. We are only seeing what is on camera. We can't see inside her head or her heart. :Unquote





I agree with much of the above, however I do find her demeanor a bit baffling. I do not think she is guilty of harming the girls in any way. But it still strikes me as very odd that she smiles so much while discussing the girls abduction. And I do not see it as a grimace at all. She is smiling and even sounds quite calm and breezy. Listen to Grandmothers heavy hearted sighs and grief stricken words as a backdrop. Big difference, imo.

What does it mean in terms of the girls? I am not sure. But it really strikes me each time I see an interview with her. Maybe she is on an anti-anxiety concoction, I don't know. But it makes me wonder if maybe she knows something that we don't know.

And I think Marlene showed a tremendous amount of grief when speaking about Sierra. I never questioned her demeanor. The last time I wondered about a parent's strange detachment was with Sergio Celis, especially in the Isabel 911 call.
 
Wishbone said:
Well, I'm not going to second guess Ms Breault and like I said on my post on the last thread, I believe LE is intentionally leaving the timeline and witnesses vague. Why I don't know.
Click to expand...

I think they are leaving the timeline, the descriptions, and the witness sightings all very vague. Maybe they do not want to spook anyone.
 
katydid23 said:
MotherOcean
Registered User


Quote:

After watching that video I am now convinced she has absolutely nothing to do with this abduction.

Everyone was jumping on Sierra LaMar's family too, suspecting things based on the statements made by her mother. Clearly we can learn from that mistake that people are not always right on with their assessments of "hinky" behavior.
I see nothing hinky during this video. I have noticed that MCM, though she is often seen smiling in videos, is fairly consistent in one thing. There is usually some point in the conversation when her eyes squint, turn red, and there is a tiny flash of pain in them. It is brief and she composes herself quickly but it is there. I think this lady has been through so much. She has probably gone through things in her life and thought nothing could be any worse. I myself have a very high tolerance for emotionally straining events. There are things that are horrible to other people and yet they seem almost normal to me. Really, our pasts do define how we face current happenings. If she has been through very hard times she may have gotten to a place in life where she has just learned to set her jaw, stiffen her upper lip and plow through the problem. We are only seeing what is on camera. We can't see inside her head or her heart. :Unquote





I agree with much of the above, however I do find her demeanor a bit baffling. I do not think she is guilty of harming the girls in any way. But it still strikes me as very odd that she smiles so much while discussing the girls abduction. And I do not see it as a grimace at all. She is smiling and even sounds quite calm and breezy. Listen to Grandmothers heavy hearted sighs and grief stricken words as a backdrop. Big difference, imo.

What does it mean in terms of the girls? I am not sure. But it really strikes me each time I see an interview with her. Maybe she is on an anti-anxiety concoction, I don't know. But it makes me wonder if maybe she knows something that we don't know.

And I think Marlene showed a tremendous amount of grief when speaking about Sierra. I never questioned her demeanor. The last time I wondered about a parent's strange detachment was with Sergio Celis, especially in the Isabel 911 call.
Click to expand...


Hmmmm...can I agree with BOTH of you?? :waitasec:
 
Wishbone,
You made a valid point. Makes sense if true. IF LE is keeping the timeline a little looser than normal , maybe they-LE- are comparing any and all security videos and eye witness reports with people we don't know they interviewed. Mind you that is my guess.


What has me going today is the fact that my kids are all grown. I keep thinking about what if they were young and had disappeared? I'd be a basket case. How do these people go on day after day when their children have been gone for 2 weeks? I realize loved ones of the missing go through this all the time....I dont know if I could handle it.
imoo
 
Wishbone said:
Sorry had to bring this post over the old way......

sbm

As far as I know, the official timeline DOES NOT include any sighting by the man on the bike or the running man. All I have seen is the approx 12:something video and the bikes being found at 3:58. Nothing else official
Click to expand...

Here's what has convinced me -

We have TG's conviction (he is apparently very reliable);

We have the FBI referring to "pinpointing" the time - strong language indeed, and not used lightly. Could easily have said estimating or helping with the time;

We have Mr Pahl, owner of cctv, who had the FBI in his shop for a day and a half saying the below;

Pahl is the manager of Cornbelt Auctions, 3520 Lafayette Road, where a 24-hour camera captured the footage from its position behind the building. The time and date stamp — 12:11 p.m. July 13 — fits the police timeline of the case
“It’s pretty hard for girls to get a mile and a half away ... in eight minutes,” Pahl said. “I don’t even think I could ride a bike a mile in eight minutes.”
.

So essentially we have a credible civilian/witness/prominent local figure who had a day and a half with the FBI in his premises, and now believes that they are dealing with an 8 minute time frame, plus a credible civilian/witness/prominent local figure as a witness;

There is also a marked lack of the usual sort of "LE would like to speak to anyone who saw a white/blue/pink vehicle around x time which is also a clue, in and of itself.

Good enough for me, until I hear different. :)

There is only one "official" time in this so far - 12.15.

:moo:


I would post the link again but I already have...read up a page :p
 
katydid23 said:
I think they are leaving the timeline, the descriptions, and the witness sightings all very vague. Maybe they do not want to spook anyone.
Click to expand...

They may be concerned about the safety of the witnesses if they do have a good idea who did it. I'd be a bit hesitant about saying anything knowing how quickly my name, face, address (or general neighborhood), and statement could spread on here (meaning the internet, not just this site.)
 
I dunno...overdoses, forgiveness, past-tense speak, MCM sobbing behind HC at the lake, now cooperating...I just dunno
 
CHERIE.T said:
What has me going today is the fact that my kids are all grown. I keep thinking about what if they were young and had disappeared? I'd be a basket case. How do these people go on day after day when their children have been gone for 2 weeks? I realize loved ones of the missing go through this all the time....I dont know if I could handle it.
imoo
Click to expand...

My guess is that somehow, you pull it together for the sake of finding your child. I think of it this way ... I am terrified of snakes, but I know that if one was slithering toward my child, that fear would melt away and my first thought would be to ensure his safety. I'm guessing when your child goes missing, that other instincts take over ... IMHO
 
SapphireSteel said:
Here's what has convinced me -

We have TG's conviction (he is apparently very reliable);

We have the FBI referring to "pinpointing" the time - strong language indeed, and not used lightly. Could easily have said estimating or helping with the time;

We have Mr Pahl, owner of cctv, who had the FBI in his shop for a day and a half saying the below;

Pahl is the manager of Cornbelt Auctions, 3520 Lafayette Road, where a 24-hour camera captured the footage from its position behind the building. The time and date stamp — 12:11 p.m. July 13 — fits the police timeline of the case
“It’s pretty hard for girls to get a mile and a half away ... in eight minutes,” Pahl said. “I don’t even think I could ride a bike a mile in eight minutes.”
.

So essentially we have a credible civilian/witness/prominent local figure who had a day and a half with the FBI in his premises, and now believes that they are dealing with an 8 minute time frame.

There is also a marked lack of the usual sort of "LE would like to speak to anyone who saw a white/blue/pink vehicle around x time which is also a clue, in and of itself. :think:

Good enough for me, until I hear different...which could also be a clue -there is only one "official" time in this so far - 12.15.

:moo:


I would post the link again but I already have...read up a page :p
Click to expand...

Okay, but is Pahl discounting that the girls rode their bikes that far in 8 minutes or is he agreeing that they did so? I cannot tell from the wording.

He seems to be either saying [1] that the girls raced very fast to be able to get to the trail in 8 minutes OR [2] that the 8 minutes is not do-able so the bikes were driven there or the sighting never happened/ ??????
 
CHERIE.T said:
Wishbone,
You made a valid point. Makes sense if true. IF LE is keeping the timeline a little looser than normal , maybe they-LE- are comparing any and all security videos and eye witness reports with people we don't know they interviewed. Mind you that is my guess.


What has me going today is the fact that my kids are all grown. I keep thinking about what if they were young and had disappeared? I'd be a basket case. How do these people go on day after day when their children have been gone for 2 weeks? I realize loved ones of the missing go through this all the time....I dont know if I could handle it.
imoo
Click to expand...




I don't know how these people continue on with their lives. But I'm sure their lives are forever changed and nothing can ever fill the empty space of losing a loved one.
 
katydid23 said:
Okay, but is Pahl discounting that the girls rode their bikes that far in 8 minutes or is he agreeing that they did so? I cannot tell from the wording.

He seems to be either saying [1] that the girls raced very fast to be able to get to the trail in 8 minutes OR [2] that the 8 minutes is not do-able so the bikes were driven there or the sighting never happened/ ??????
Click to expand...

He is doubting they could've done it.

I believe they were intercepted very quickly by car on the way OR

were going like the clappers to meet someone at the lake.

They were young and fit...a mile and a half in eight minutes is well within running speed, not sure about cycling speed...

Anyway it may not matter, they may not have got that far.

:moo:

One thing is for certain - whoever did it did not account for Mr Gamerdinger or Mr Pahl. :rocker:

:moo:
 
katydid23 said:
Okay, but is Pahl discounting that the girls rode their bikes that far in 8 minutes or is he agreeing that they did so? I cannot tell from the wording.

He seems to be either saying [1] that the girls raced very fast to be able to get to the trail in 8 minutes OR [2] that the 8 minutes is not do-able so the bikes were driven there or the sighting never happened/ ??????
Click to expand...

My son is a terrible cyclist and he can do a mile in 8 minutes. That's only 8 mph. Slow.
 
Drove to Evansdale again today. Cornbelt auctions is next door to Lederman's Big & Tall. JMO.. but I am almost positive there is only one survelliance video.

If the girls were going west toward River Forest Road, then I wonder if their intentions were to stay close to home and something happened nearby? Or they could have turned right to go to Lafayette Road and then go to the bike trail or down Evans.

JMO but I don't believe Mr. C saw the girls that day.
 
Sailorsgirl said:
My guess is that somehow, you pull it together for the sake of finding your child. I think of it this way ... I am terrified of snakes, but I know that if one was slithering toward my child, that fear would melt away and my first thought would be to ensure his safety. I'm guessing when your child goes missing, that other instincts take over ... IMHO
Click to expand...

Im sure you're right Sailorsgirl.
 
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