Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

alioop said:

This is a hypothetical what if. Bear with me please.

What if there was an intruder who climbed up the ladder and in the bathroom window. When OP heard the window close, he grabbed Reeva and told her to hide beside the bed and call security. She is following his instructions. He gets his gun and goes down the passage to the bathroom yelling and screaming. He says nothing to the intruder. He believes the intruder to be in the toilet and hears a noise so he shoots 4 times in rapid succession. He hears no screaming.

Reeva turns on the lights and brings the cricket bat to OP and he breaks the door. Lying dead on the floor is a 12 yr old girl.

Under SA law, what do people think he is guilty of?

Click to expand...

alioop said:

This is a hypothetical what if. Bear with me please.

What if there was an intruder who climbed up the ladder and in the bathroom window. When OP heard the window close, he grabbed Reeva and told her to hide beside the bed and call security. She is following his instructions. He gets his gun and goes down the passage to the bathroom yelling and screaming. He says nothing to the intruder. He believes the intruder to be in the toilet and hears a noise so he shoots 4 times in rapid succession. He hears no screaming.

Reeva turns on the lights and brings the cricket bat to OP and he breaks the door. Lying dead on the floor is a 12 yr old girl.

Under SA law, what do people think he is guilty of?

Click to expand...

alioop said:

This is a hypothetical what if. Bear with me please.

What if there was an intruder who climbed up the ladder and in the bathroom window. When OP heard the window close, he grabbed Reeva and told her to hide beside the bed and call security. She is following his instructions. He gets his gun and goes down the passage to the bathroom yelling and screaming. He says nothing to the intruder. He believes the intruder to be in the toilet and hears a noise so he shoots 4 times in rapid succession. He hears no screaming.

Reeva turns on the lights and brings the cricket bat to OP and he breaks the door. Lying dead on the floor is a 12 yr old girl.

Under SA law, what do people think he is guilty of?

Click to expand...

shane13 said:

ON the Premeditated Murder Charge

I am not an atty, but am going on what Nel has said.

Now some say this is so hard to prove or win on. But again from Nel, what I think is his case is the following.

Oscar & Reeva had that loud argument for an hour or so leading into the shooting. But when they were in the bedtoom arguing, it escalated (either just verbally or possibly with a minor assault) and Reeva fled to the loo.

At that point State alleges, Oscar could have done many other things,
such as break up with her and tell her to leave, go watch TV, take a drug or homeopathic remedy, go for a drive, go to shooting range, etc. etc.

But instead he "chose" to get his gun and go after her in the other room to kill her. The PM charge only needs minutes or even seconds to be a "plan" to kill. And it exists here because OP could have done all those other things when Reeva went to escape him and hide.

That's the gist of it.
But there is another aspect, a few of us discussed a year ago here, that given Reeva's nature of never wanting to argue or such, she may have been held captive and prevented from leaving--hence the hour long intense arguing which was against her nature, basically all who knew have said. Indeed I might speculate that the locked bedroom door Oscar cites could have been to prevent Reeva from leaving. (If it works that way.)

Click to expand...

Harmony2 said:

link

link

Continue discussion here...​

Click to expand...

TrueDetective said:

I have long pondered possible/likely scenarios which would result in the crime and I have also come to a similar conclusion.

It is based upon previous experience, human nature, past behaviours, character studies, logic and the limited evidence.

I do think that the evening of Feb 13th was a major row and it had been brewing for a few weeks. It escalated to a new level though there had been signs that threats and violent bursts of anger were possible, likely not directed at RS herself until that night but at objects or excessive speeding, other signs of a dangerous temper and loss of self control.
For whatever reason, the actual triggers for this major row are private - no known evidence at this point (relationships are not catalogued perfectly and chronologically in media and software data, especially someone like OP who has already stated that he prefers to talk in person or by phone).
The trigger is extremely likely to be jealousy, possibly exacerbated by unknown personal, financial or relationship issues. It escalated into a dangerous and physical confrontation, mostly upstairs (damage to bedroom door) and OP feared the repurcussions this time as he'd gone much further than previous flash points, both in this and previous relationships.
It was the end, not just another OP tantrum but this time a life changing event. He panicked, totally flipped and kept RS captive in the bathroom area (much damage, jeans out of window) for a period of up to 1 hour after 2am.
I believe that it was him who forced her into the toilet and separated her from her phone which was the biggest threat to OP at that point. He was only killing time for the moment.
He tormented her, threatened her and this continued berating and humiliation ultimately ended in a complete loss of control due to her continued petrified screaming (fear of alerting neighbours) and he murdered her in cold-blood at around 3am.
His mythical intruder story may even have been invented and planned during that final traumatic hour and perhaps was the final bit of madness/confidence to take out all his anger, fulfil a thrill seeking gun nuts wet dream and fire those four shots through the door into his now ex-girlfriend.

Click to expand...

soozieqtips said:

Did OP deactivate the alarm in a deliberate attempt to stop Reeva alerting security?
He says he deactivated it before he went downstairs to open the door.

"I was not aware of any malfunction of my alarm in 2013," says Pistorius, who says he deactivated it before going downstairs to open the door. Nel seizes on this saying, saying he is changing the evidence as he goes along.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/11/oscar-pistorius-trial-live-11-april

Click to expand...

alioop said:

This is a hypothetical what if. Bear with me please.

What if there was an intruder who climbed up the ladder and in the bathroom window. When OP heard the window close, he grabbed Reeva and told her to hide beside the bed and call security. She is following his instructions. He gets his gun and goes down the passage to the bathroom yelling and screaming. He says nothing to the intruder. He believes the intruder to be in the toilet and hears a noise so he shoots 4 times in rapid succession. He hears no screaming.

Reeva turns on the lights and brings the cricket bat to OP and he breaks the door. Lying dead on the floor is a 12 yr old girl.

Under SA law, what do people think he is guilty of?

Click to expand...

Patagonia said:

As I (following this case) came to understand about SA crime rate and people's feelings and views there, he would be charged of culpable homicide (or maybe even no charges would be brought), but would get a suspended sentence due to suffering enough with his own feelings of guilt, etc.

And the majority of SA people would sympathize with him, imo.

Am I right Carol70?

Click to expand...

kaos said:

I still see it as murder. I'd still see it as murder if it was a 40 year old man, two 25 year old men. Even burglars have a right to life. In that scenario, both could be phoning the police first before he gets his gun.

Click to expand...