WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #2

Hi-

I thought it would be better to start another thread on the Grays Harbor, Washington John Doe- only this time I'm just posting where I think he might be from...

I just checked my World Atlas book to see where the closest places are to Grays Harbor and I think "Robert Doe" could possibly be from Vancouver or Victoria (Canada) and OR Seattle or Tacoma. I've thought these places could be possible because they could have given "Robert Doe" more time to get to Grays Harbor on September 15th, 2001 OR possibly before September 15th, 2001

Well this may be a long shot but here goes;

What if this John Doe had a terrorist link.What if he was supposed to do something on 9/11 and failed.Flight #77 was apparently headed for the White House.There were passengers that were turned away and did not board that flight from Dulles airport.Maybe the airport tapes should be checked to see if John Doe was in that airport.
So he resorted to suicide.Or if it was a murder to make it appear to be a suicide because of a failed mission.I have not read the book with the "Lyle Stevik charactor, in the book "You must remember this" by Joyce Carol Oates.Apparently there is mention of political affairs,sympathies with those against America,and suicides.
John Doe did not check in under this alias for no reason.

dark_shadows said:

Well this may be a long shot but here goes;

What if this John Doe had a terrorist link.What if he was supposed to do something on 9/11 and failed.Flight #77 was apparently headed for the White House.There were passengers that were turned away and did not board that flight from Dulles airport.Maybe the airport tapes should be checked to see if John Doe was in that airport.
So he resorted to suicide.Or if it was a murder to make it appear to be a suicide because of a failed mission.I have not read the book with the "Lyle Stevik charactor, in the book "You must remember this" by Joyce Carol Oates.Apparently there is mention of political affairs,sympathies with those against America,and suicides.
John Doe did not check in under this alias for no reason.

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If it was a murder designed to look like a suicide- wouldn't the front desk or anyone who was at the hotel between September 16th- September 17th, 2001 see anyone go in to this person's hotel room? After "Robert" had died- there was no mention of anyone having come to his hotel room in an article, nor had anyone said that to the police- so I'm not very sure about that- but good theory though! :clap:

I had other theories about this guy too- The Lyle Stevick in the book commits suicide- perhaps "Robert" related to that guy or "Robert's" life was troubled from day 1 of his life that it depressed him enough to kill himself...

Another theory: This guy may have been planning his death for a long time- so perhaps he knew what he was going to bring with him when he commited suicide. I'm always wondering where he might have lived- did he have a roommate? Did he live with his parents? Or was he going to University and living there?

Another thing: I was always suspicious about his autopsy photos the first time I saw them- I was wondering how after he hung himself, he could look really good on that autopsy table! I think the photo is result of some touching up to make it less graphic for viewers...

outofthedark said:

Another thing: I was always suspicious about his autopsy photos the first time I saw them- I was wondering how after he hung himself, he could look really good on that autopsy table! I think the photo is result of some touching up to make it less graphic for viewers...

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Hello Outofthedark,
I posted that about the autopsy photo and you replied (click for link).

outofthedark said:

If it was a murder designed to look like a suicide- wouldn't the front desk or anyone who was at the hotel between September 16th- September 17th, 2001 see anyone go in to this person's hotel room?

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I do not know how the hotel was set up,but hotels do not keep track of payed customers guests.They do not go up to a person walking in the door and goes past the desk area.Especially if the rooms are not inside the front desk building.(ie;You pull into the parking lot and the motel rooms are right there.)

dark_shadows said:

Hello Outofthedark,
I posted that about the autopsy photo and you replied (click for link).

I do not know how the hotel was set up,but hotels do not keep track of payed customers guests.They do not go up to a person walking in the door and goes past the desk area.Especially if the rooms are not inside the front desk building.(ie;You pull into the parking lot and the motel rooms are right there.)

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I actually meant to say if anyone who had been in the hallway or floor where "Robert's" hotel room was would have seen a person... sometimes I have a habit of not writing my sentences in a clear way- I'm trying to fix that...

I also wonder how noisy the 1st room "Robert" stayed in was to the point where he wanted to be moved to another one...

Hi Outofthedark,

Thanks for the post.

dark_shadows said:

Hi Outofthedark,

Thanks for the post.

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You're welcome

Grays Harbor is a popular summer destination for Seattle residents. It's pretty much the closest ocean beach.

Lurker Steve said:

Grays Harbor is a popular summer destination for Seattle residents. It's pretty much the closest ocean beach.

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Thanks for that fact- very interesting! :clap:

I find it unlikely that he went there for a trip to the ocean.

dark_shadows said:

I find it unlikely that he went there for a trip to the ocean.

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didn't think that either...

Just checked my calendar- he checked in to the hotel on September 15th- that's a Friday and when he was found dead on September 17th- that was a Sunday. If he was employed- and depends if he did ever work on Mondays- wouldn't whoever employed him report him missing? It all depends if he worked or if he worked part-time- either way, he could have asked to take a few days off of work. I do find it possible that he could have said something to cover up what he was really intending to do...

"Robert" could have possibly been in Washington two days before he checked in to that hotel...

About that trailer park that was next to the hotel- I wonder if they went around and asked the people who lived there if they knew who he was??

Just wanted to add a few thoughts since I'm fairly familiar with the area.

Amanda Park, where this guy was found is completely in the middle of nowhere. It is not near the beach, but in a temperate rain forest next to a beautiful lake. Popular almost exclusively with hikers and fishers. Very, very lovely scenery, but the population (800 or so) is quite poor and predominately Native American and virtually the only jobs in the area have to do with timber. There are fewer motels and hotels than you would expect. Amanda Park is on a two-lane twisty highway that is practically deserted out of season, and serves mainly as a conduit for people in the southern area of Puget Sound and the Northern part of Oregon to travel up to the attractions of the Olympic Penninsula, such as Ruby Beach, the Olympic National Park, and the Hoh Rain Forest in the north-west part. It would be a much more inconvienient route south from Canada than Interstate 5, because it would involve either taking a couple of ferry rides and going way west and then south, or traveling down to Olympia and then going west and back up north. There aren't really any roads across the Penninsula, only around the perimeter because Mt. Olympia is smack dab in the middle.

Some thoughts:

This area is popular as a short day-trip for students at The Evergreen State University in Olympia, WA. I mention this because of his literary alias. The school caters to students with "alternative" lifestyles, latter-day hippies, if you will. There are no grades, and you can just make up a major. Although many people thrive in that atmosphere (Matt Groening, for one!), others find that when they leave, they don't really have anywhere to go or anything they can get paid to do, or they are unused to working under the authority of a boss of any kind.

One other feature of the area are the many Indian Reservations on the Penninsula. He may have left his tribal community to find work, ended up living in the forest and practically starving (the weight loss) and scraped up enough money to rent the room to kill himself in. His family may think he's left the reservation behind.

One other thought -- did he have a car with him?

Boatswain'sMate said:

Just wanted to add a few thoughts since I'm fairly familiar with the area.

Amanda Park, where this guy was found is completely in the middle of nowhere. It is not near the beach, but in a temperate rain forest next to a beautiful lake. Popular almost exclusively with hikers and fishers. Very, very lovely scenery, but the population (800 or so) is quite poor and predominately Native American and virtually the only jobs in the area have to do with timber. There are fewer motels and hotels than you would expect. Amanda Park is on a two-lane twisty highway that is practically deserted out of season, and serves mainly as a conduit for people in the southern area of Puget Sound and the Northern part of Oregon to travel up to the attractions of the Olympic Penninsula, such as Ruby Beach, the Olympic National Park, and the Hoh Rain Forest in the north-west part. It would be a much more inconvienient route south from Canada than Interstate 5, because it would involve either taking a couple of ferry rides and going way west and then south, or traveling down to Olympia and then going west and back up north. There aren't really any roads across the Penninsula, only around the perimeter because Mt. Olympia is smack dab in the middle.

Some thoughts:

This area is popular as a short day-trip for students at The Evergreen State University in Olympia, WA. I mention this because of his literary alias. The school caters to students with "alternative" lifestyles, latter-day hippies, if you will. There are no grades, and you can just make up a major. Although many people thrive in that atmosphere (Matt Groening, for one!), others find that when they leave, they don't really have anywhere to go or anything they can get paid to do, or they are unused to working under the authority of a boss of any kind.

One other feature of the area are the many Indian Reservations on the Penninsula. He may have left his tribal community to find work, ended up living in the forest and practically starving (the weight loss) and scraped up enough money to rent the room to kill himself in. His family may think he's left the reservation behind.

One other thought -- did he have a car with him?

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The people who were investigating his suicide don't really know how he got to the hotel and neither does anyone who had seen him on September 15th, 2001...

Is it possible that he walked to the hotel, which may have explained the weight loss...

Hi Outofthedark,

Why would he give an address for a place in Ohio.
He did not pick that address out of the phone book in Wa. prior to checking into the place of death.The Wa. phonebook would list motels/hotels in the state.Why did he pick that address.Was an abandoned vehicle found by any LE in the surrounding area of where he was found?
The autopsy photo bothers me.Was it a murder attempting to make it appear to be a suicide.I wish that Dr. Baden would look into this case.
Does anyone think that the actual autopsy photo really looks like a hanging victim?
As far as the weight loss goes,it takes months to lose weight,even if a person were not able to eat properly,a dramatic weight loss takes time.
Obviously if a person loses a drastic amount of weight,the body shows signs.But it does not pinpoint when that weight was lost.He could have lost it years ago.Yes stretchmarks and loose skin are signs of weight loss.But he could have been in a yo yo cycle.Lost weight and gained it back.Everyone has a different genetic make-up,some get stretch marks,some do not.Without genetic testing how can anyone pinpiont when anyone lost weight at any point and time.
I doubt it the timeline of the stretchmarks were tested.
What was the total time length of the autopsy investigation.

dark_shadows said:

Hi Outofthedark,

Why would he give an address for a place in Ohio.
He did not pick that address out of the phone book in Wa. prior to checking into the place of death.The Wa. phonebook would list motels/hotels in the state.Why did he pick that address.Was an abandoned vehicle found by any LE in the surrounding area of where he was found?
The autopsy photo bothers me.Was it a murder attempting to make it appear to be a suicide.I wish that Dr. Baden would look into this case.
Does anyone think that the actual autopsy photo really looks like a hanging victim?
As far as the weight loss goes,it takes months to lose weight,even if a person were not able to eat properly,a dramatic weight loss takes time.
Obviously if a person loses a drastic amount of weight,the body shows signs.But it does not pinpoint when that weight was lost.He could have lost it years ago.Yes stretchmarks and loose skin are signs of weight loss.But he could have been in a yo yo cycle.Lost weight and gained it back.Everyone has a different genetic make-up,some get stretch marks,some do not.Without genetic testing how can anyone pinpiont when anyone lost weight at any point and time.
I doubt it the timeline of the stretchmarks were tested.
What was the total time length of the autopsy investigation.

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I always wondered whether "Robert" had weight problems while he was still alive- I also wondered if he dieted sometimes in his life as well...

His weight at the time of his death was 140 pounds- it has been thought that "Robert" lost 30-40 pounds before he died- possibly putting him at having been 170-180 pounds before... but doesn't 140 pounds look skinny on a 6'2 man??

About the autopsy photo, when I first saw it- I was suspicious about it because I was wondering how he could look like a Calvin Klein model on an autopsy table and still have hung himself without showing obvious signs in that photograph- but the photo was probably airbrushed, quite obvious in the picture itself...

outofthedark said:

I always wondered whether "Robert" had weight problems while he was still alive- I also wondered if he dieted sometimes in his life as well...

His weight at the time of his death was 140 pounds- it has been thought that "Robert" lost 30-40 pounds before he died- possibly putting him at having been 170-180 pounds before... but doesn't 140 pounds look skinny on a 6'2 man??

About the autopsy photo, when I first saw it- I was suspicious about it because I was wondering how he could look like a Calvin Klein model on an autopsy table and still have hung himself without showing obvious signs in that photograph- but the photo was probably airbrushed, quite obvious in the picture itself...

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Hi Outofthedark,
You are right when you say that he looks like a Calvin Klein model in the photos.
They facial features do not appear to be airbrushed.His features are too distingused to have any swelling airbrused out.There is no swelling at all in the face.Take a look at both of the photos and you will see what I mean.

As far as the large size of the pants,who knows,he probably bought them that size and wore the belt with them.Wearing pants sizes too big is and has been the "in style" for some time.Just a thought.
Thank-you for the post and I will look forward to your post on this.


autopsy photos link
Respectfully,
dark_shadows

dark_shadows said:

Hi Outofthedark,
You are right when you say that he looks like a Calvin Klein model in the photos.
They facial features do not appear to be airbrushed.His features are too distingused to have any swelling airbrused out.There is no swelling at all in the face.Take a look at both of the photos and you will see what I mean.

As far as the large size of the pants,who knows,he probably bought them that size and wore the belt with them.Wearing pants sizes too big is and has been the "in style" for some time.Just a thought.
Thank-you for the post and I will look forward to your post on this.


autopsy photos link
Respectfully,
dark_shadows

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Sometimes I think he looks like a cross between these two guys:

First Guy:

http://www.celebritywonder.com/event2/pic/Antonio_Sabato_Jr/AntonioSabat_DeGuire_5173314.jpg

Second Guy:

http://www.beachofstone.com/cgi-bin/ImageFolio31/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=1980/Robert&image=80_robert_2.jpg&img=&tt=
(^^^scroll down the page on the link above^^^)

I think he resembles Jean Claude van Damme. The pants being too big wouldn't indicate to me that he had lost weight. The popular style would be down on his hips like they were falling off.



JMHO

tennessee said:

I think he resembles Jean Claude van Damme. The pants being too big wouldn't indicate to me that he had lost weight. The popular style would be down on his hips like they were falling off.



JMHO

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He does look a little like van Damme

Here's a question I have: Did anyone see him before September 15th in the Washington area before he went to the hotel?? Did anyone see him coming out of another city by transportation?? Did anyone else talk to him??

L.E. should put a posters up about him at bus stations and bus stops or any other place that has transportation- see if anyone recognizes him from a bus trip or if any bus drivers who worked in 2001 recognizes him

Also, at truck stops in the area. He might have hitched a ride.




JMHO