GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #11

This older gentleman is heartbroken. It is so sad that his grandson probably broke his heart as well as the hearts of the Giddings family. He seems to me to be a realist in this situation. Maybe he could talk some sense into SM and get the whereabouts of the rest of Lauren so her family can at least have that much peace in bringing her home. While we did learn some small bits of information, I dislike the Macon paper taking advantage of this man. My opinion is they did take advantage of him. I feel that SM's mom is not happy with her father for giving this interview.

The article just left me feeling so sad. And while well written, I agree with pearl, I don't really like what they've done here. I know that they are reaching for more stories, but I don't know if putting this man's pain out there is the best way. It does provide some insight into Stephen, but makes me sad thinking that the rest of the family is not going to be happy with grandpa. (However, just a guess, but I bet the son & his wife that were mentioned are probably on the same page as he is)

Also, when I was reading the part about McD following him back and them driving all around his property, it crossed my mind that he could've disposed of Lauren there. I shudder to think that, but I remember in earlier discussions that people had asked if his family had any land.

Wow. I am so sad for SM's grandpa (and other extended family). That article was really painful to read.

SouthernKate said:

Also, when I was reading the part about McD following him back and them driving all around his property, it crossed my mind that he could've disposed of Lauren there. I shudder to think that, but I remember in earlier discussions that people had asked if his family had any land.

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I looked up where grandpa lives, and it's only a little over an hour from Macon. Quite a bit of his property is wooded too.

This article is excellent IMO.
It gave insight to the only family member who seems to have a grip on reality.
McD's grandfather appears to speak honestly and sincerely to express his hopes, dreams, and deep disappointment.
I agree that this is a very sad article, but then again, what isn't sad when you say "Lauren Giddings" ?

http://www.macon.com/2011/09/25/1717788/mcdaniels-grandfather-stung-by.html

SouthernKate said:

The article just left me feeling so sad. And while well written, I agree with pearl, I don't really like what they've done here. I know that they are reaching for more stories, but I don't know if putting this man's pain out there is the best way. It does provide some insight into Stephen, but makes me sad thinking that the rest of the family is not going to be happy with grandpa. (However, just a guess, but I bet the son & his wife that were mentioned are probably on the same page as he is)

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Thanks for the heads up on the article. I tried to stay awake to read it last night, but I was exhausted. Very sad, indeed. I couldn't help but think of the relationship between my son and my father before he passed away. My son was his eyes, as they say, and held all the hope for a bright future. I gather the bond between McD and his grandfather was similar. What a terrible blow for the poor gentleman to receive at this stage in his life. Another victim added to the list.

SouthernKate said:

Also, when I was reading the part about McD following him back and them driving all around his property, it crossed my mind that he could've disposed of Lauren there. I shudder to think that, but I remember in earlier discussions that people had asked if his family had any land.

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I was one who had snooped around early on and found photos, so that was in the back of my mind the other night when I mentioned a place close and/or familiar. It's about an hour or so away from Macon, so feasible. If McD was toying with the idea of murder, surveying the property just a week earlier could've given him ideas. The description of the property in the article makes me wonder if the reporters haven't considered the possibility that LG's remains might be hidden there. I don't know, but I hope LE has thought about it.

September 25, 2011

McDaniel's Grandfather Stung by Dashed Dreams, Possible Darkside
It was a call that he flat-out knew would come in the months ahead...

Browning, a retired railroad man, a widower, imagined answering the phone at his Flint River farmhouse and hearing the kid say, “Granddaddy, I passed the bar. I’m gonna get me this job.”

Browning gazed toward his barn, his okra patch beside it, and explained why that much-anticipated phone call will probably never come.

Very sad indeed but I believe it is a very honest to a fault account of this grandfather's most honest feelings and observations of someone he obviously had so much pride in, so many hopes and dreams for his future that he was so certain would one day come to fruition.. As he said, "all slammed in a moment of time." the ripple effect becoming again evident and just the great magnitude that ripple effect of Stephen's decisions continue to affect.. Sad for all involved.

As far as other things in the article I noted was the jailer stating to the grandfather:

Browning then asked to see his grandson, who was being held in isolation in the lockup’s sick bay. Browning said a jailer told him, “Stephen’s not acting right.” A nurse informed him that Stephen was out of sorts.
“We are not set up to treat him here. ... We get people that’s all distraught or high, maybe off of drugs,” Browning recalled the nurse saying. “She said, ‘In his case ... we can’t do anything here. Your lawyer could order him evaluated with the proper place or proper individual.’ ”

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So, I certainly would like to know what behaviors he was exhibiting that both a jailer and a nurse would make these statements to Stephen's grandfather.. These ppl, just as they say, see alot of unusual, strange, and psychotic behaviors quite likely during their working with inmates.. I certainly would like to know more about his behaviors that would have more than one jail employee making these statements to the grandfather..

SmoothOperator said:

Very sad indeed but I believe it is a very honest to a fault account of this grandfather's most honest feelings and observations of someone he obviously had so much pride in, so many hopes and dreams for his future that he was so certain would one day come to fruition.. As he said, "all slammed in a moment of time." the ripple effect becoming again evident and just the great magnitude that ripple effect of Stephen's decisions continue to affect.. Sad for all involved.

As far as other things in the article I noted was the jailer stating to the grandfather:


So, I certainly would like to know what behaviors he was exhibiting that both a jailer and a nurse would make these statements to Stephen's grandfather.. These ppl, just as they say, see alot of unusual, strange, and psychotic behaviors quite likely during their working with inmates.. I certainly would like to know more about his behaviors that would have more than one jail employee making these statements to the grandfather..

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Good observation, Smooth.

I wondered the same thing. My first thought was that perhaps they *thought* he might be detoxing from something that required very specific medical intervention.

My second thought was that he was exibiting very violent behavior, either toward staff, or to himself; and they did not want the responsibility, or have the resources, to medically control the situation safely.

My heart absolutely breaks for his grandfather.

Oriah said:

Good observation, Smooth.

I wondered the same thing. My first thought was that perhaps they *thought* he might be detoxing from something that required very specific medical intervention.

My second thought was that he was exibiting very violent behavior, either toward staff, or to himself; and they did not want the responsibility, or have the resources, to medically control the situation safely.

My heart absolutely breaks for his grandfather.

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I thought it was a very good article, just as the one the week before about Karen Giddings was.
There are innocent family members affected on both sides, and the pain is tremendous, certainly more so for Lauren's family , but how would you feel if this were your grandson ? Truly saddened for this path of destruction that SMcD is laying .

Seems as tho we all had similar thoughts when we read the part of the article describing grandfather's property.. That could it be possible that Stephen had buried all or some of her remains on this grandfather's large property that would easily have a spot found to bury and/or dispose of or hide all or some of Lauren's remains..

I believe that some of us also honed in on Stephen's having made the trip out to granddads within literally days of his murdering Lauren.. And IMO seemingly for no reason at all for the visit.. Browning specifically says he didn't stay long at all.. So why did he drive all the way out to granddad's that day?? They'd already shared lunch together and everyone else leaves to go home with Stephen driving out to granddad's house for a very short visit.. Browning never states there was a reason.. Of course there could be a perfect explanation.. Even that the granddad asked him to come out there.. It's just not told to us.. So it does create some suspicion in my mind that at the very least with it being days within his carrying out his plan that he very well could have been just checking out granddad's property.. Just to see if there was an area that Stephen found to be appropriate for his plans..

Do I know this for certain?? Of course not.. It is merely speculation, but I do find it possible that he could have ATLEAST looked around to see if there was anywhere on the property that he found to be appropriate.. IMO it's likely none of Laurens remains are there but I wouldn't doubt it if it indeed was a thought that crossed Stephen's mind as a possibility..

I do believe that it wouldn't be a bad idea to search the property ATLEAST with cadaver dogs and from the sounds of it I believe that Browning would have zero issue with a search being done of his property with the cadaver dogs..

Just some thoughts..

Oriah said:

Good observation, Smooth.

I wondered the same thing. My first thought was that perhaps they *thought* he might be detoxing from something that required very specific medical intervention.

My second thought was that he was exibiting very violent behavior, either toward staff, or to himself; and they did not want the responsibility, or have the resources, to medically control the situation safely.

My heart absolutely breaks for his grandfather.

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And I'm reminded yet once again of Chief Burns' expression and refusal to comment when asked if McD was cooperating.
http://www.9news.com/video/1041097677001/1/Macon-Police-News-Conference-on-Lauren-Giddings

I don't think he was being violent. I think he was posing a catatonic state just like he wrote about in his now infamous web post.

I’d sit down on the ground, with my gun several paces away from me, and just rock back and forward on the ground, eyes wide and blank.”He goes on to write, “Afterwards, I’d remain in this state for at least a day -- no talking, no communication, blank, unfocused stares. I do not fall asleep, either.

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Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/25/1677683/internet-posts-about-death-linked.html#ixzz1Z6nKyjWG

His grandfather's words:

Through the glass, his grandson seemed distant. Stephen barely spoke.

That day, Browning said, Stephen seemed a complete stranger. “Complete, not kind of.”
In front of him was a young man he knew to be sharp and sure, “a bookworm” destined for success, now stripped of that vigor, in a stupor.
“In a trance,” Browning recalled. “It was a different Stephen.”

“It comes and goes,” Stephen said, his voice low, his eyes “looking yonder,” as his grandfather would later put it.

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I agree with SmoothOperator that the jail personnel probably have seen (and handled) a wide range of extreme behavioral states in inmates, so it is interesting to ponder what was being observed that prompted the suggestion by the nurse of the possibility of a possible need for outside evaluation.

I tend to think, along with bessie, that most likely it was not extremely violent behavior. Even if it was that, I feel the jail medical staff would be able to cope (for a period of time) with that in-house -- as they also would be able to cope, for a time, with near-catatonic and/or severe depressive symptoms. In either case, though, it might just be protocol to suggest a more in-depth evaluation is in order at a certain point.

Also, I wonder about caution about a possible condition with further medical (beyond psychiatric, I mean) possibilities. What Oriah said about detoxing from a particular substance, with specific medical intervention needed and not available at the jail, would be one example. Another possibility would be a suspicion of something like, say, meningitis with delirium/psychosis symptoms (SM mentioned headaches and nausea to his grandfather, and he could have been appearing to be experiencing other physical symptoms as well); in that kind of case, some needed diagnostics might not be able to be done at the jail. If jail medical staff suspected such a situation, they would be remiss not to respond in some way.

I believe we heard some speculation from Buford early on that his client was not "doing well" and might be experiencing some physical illness... and while that could have been a defense attorney making the most of a possibility, it also might have proved true.

This reminds me, too -- I've been meaning to ask: At some point in the full version of the commitment hearing, doesn't Buford ask Patterson whether Stephen told him during the long questioning that he (SM) was not feeling well? I think he did ask that -- and I think Patterson responded that no, SM did not tell him that -- but it was a part I had a lot of trouble hearing. (And, as I've said before, I've been unable to watch the full hearing again, even though I have a copy saved, because my computer just isn't up to handling that large file, apparently.)

WOW, this is remarkable.

http://www.macon.com/2011/08/25/1677683/internet-posts-about-death-linked.html#ixzz1Z6nKyjWG

And further down in the article.............."I look down and put a sad look on your face,<B> relating what I was TOLD happened </B>(as you have no memory of it). I might end up institutionalized for a while so they can try to figure out what caused the blackout, and they may take my guns from me as well as the ability to purchase more, but if I stuck to the story, it&#8217;s doubtful I&#8217;d end up in prison.&#8221; "

And SM also told his mother (If I recall). " they tell me I did something bad"



Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/25/1677683/internet-posts-about-death-linked.html#ixzz1Z7C9OEvh

FWIW: What popped into my mind when I read the part of the story about the Father's Day get-together and Stephen following his granddad back to the farm was: Oh, that independent old fellow drives himself around but family members take turns following him on the longer trips to make sure he gets where he's going OK!

I can see where the suspicion that it was a "scouting trip" for SM would come in, if you are of the mind that he is guilty and that the killing was premeditated. Personally, I'm more of the opinion that, if SM is guilty, Lauren's death was not premeditated, so that particular suspicion didn't pop to my thinking. His grandfather -- at least from anything quoted in the story -- didn't appear to think it odd that Stephen followed him home, though it is mentioned that he "didn't stay long".

I do understand the wondering whether, if SM is guilty, he might have taken some of Lauren's remains to the property. I wonder that as well -- although in many ways I surely hope not.

Backwoods, I didn't really think of him making the trip out to the farm deliberately for the purpose of "scouting". My thinking was more along the lines that the visit was innocent, just a chance for the two to spend a little quiet time together on Father's Day. But while driving around at the farm, if in the back of his mind he'd been entertaining the notion of murder, it occurred to him that the site might be a good place to hide remains. And if he was infatuated, he might've wanted to keep them someplace meaningful to him. It was a just a thought that came to mind reading the article. I'm more inclined to believe the remains were scattered, possibly in trash cans and dumpsters or a nearby waterway.

bessie said:

Backwoods, I didn't really think of him making the trip out to the farm delieberately for the purpose of "scouting". My thinking was more along the lines that the visit was innocent, just a chance for the two to spend a little quiet time together on Father's Day. But while driving around at the farm, if in the back of his mind he'd been entertaining the notion of murder, it occurred to him that the site might be a good place to hide remains. And if he was infatuated, he might've wanted to keep them someplace meaningful to him. It was a just a thought that came to mind reading the article. I'm more inclined to believe the remains were scattered, possibly in trash cans and dumpsters or a nearby waterway.

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Your last few sentences here, bessie, kind of touch on why I said that "in most ways" I surely hope SM didn't choose the grandfather's property, if he is the killer. Because -- though I hate the idea of any family having to deal with knowing that their "homeplace" was used that way, and that's why I "hope not" -- at the same time, in some small way, I'd rather LG be at a place like that rather than in those other places you mention. Does that make any sense to you...? I know it does not really make much difference, but still ....

That part of my feelings ties in to a very haunting dream I had early on in this case that seemed to relate to the finding of remains. I imagine such dreams are not really an appropriate topic for WS and so I have never mentioned it before, and won't go into detail now. Probably was JUST a dream! I will say that, while it has haunted me, it was not gory or horrific, beyond just the after-awakening feeling of what it might be referencing; in fact, one of the oddest things was the peaceful feeling that was present throughout. That was very strange.

Backwoods said:

FWIW: What popped into my mind when I read the part of the story about the Father's Day get-together and Stephen following his granddad back to the farm was: Oh, that independent old fellow drives himself around but family members take turns following him on the longer trips to make sure he gets where he's going OK!

I can see where the suspicion that it was a "scouting trip" for SM would come in, if you are of the mind that he is guilty and that the killing was premeditated. Personally, I'm more of the opinion that, if SM is guilty, Lauren's death was not premeditated, so that particular suspicion didn't pop to my thinking. His grandfather -- at least from anything quoted in the story -- didn't appear to think it odd that Stephen followed him home, though it is mentioned that he "didn't stay long".

I do understand the wondering whether, if SM is guilty, he might have taken some of Lauren's remains to the property. I wonder that as well -- although in many ways I surely hope not.

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People can make anything fit if they want to, but I wholeheartedly agree with your post, I thought the SAME EXACT thing when he followed his grandpa home, "someone to follow him home to make sure he gets there saftely, and then SM spent a few minutes with him before heading back to Macon. How rude just to leave - if you want to look at it THAT way

After reading the articles about SM's musings in regards to how he'd handle himself if ever caught/suspected in a murder, is just flabbergasting. This part makes me wonder if it was more to his "VISIT" with grandpa to look for a location for the remains.

It would indeed appear then to be premeditated by SM, (if he's guilty)as crossed my mind too and if he was possibly searching for a place to dispose of body.

Strangely so, it was only 5 days after this she went missing, Did he SNAP? Was it premeditated, was it that his perfect target for his game was leaving or was it that his love was leaving?

What would have triggered a "heat of the moment" type situation?

ALso, does anyone know if LE or FBI HAVE searched the property of grandfather? Surely media would have been all over that. MY GOSH, there are trillions of locations to hide bodies, where no one ever walks. How would he have gone so far? How soon did he get rid of the smaller parts? Before school on Tuesday? I'm still stunned that it could even be him. I know the circumstances unveiled to date certainly give the appearance of guilt.
Saturday evening someone Surprises her, leave no traces of chloroform, no fingerprints, no DNA, no blood, no tools (except the hacksaw in the maint closet, doubt created), no bleach bottles?, no blood on tubs/sinks/floor/carpet/outside/toilet/wall/no plastic found/any ponchos? (that he supposedly purchased), if so there'd be blood on those if used for protection and cover/so when did he have time to travel anywhere except to a neighboring trashbin to dispose of anything or to the river up the street, where nothing was discovered but means nothing, that river has a steady current if you get past the sandbars that have been around lately, I suppose parts sink or flow on down river for as long as they dont get caught on something or eventually settle

Flabbergasted still!

tomkat said:

WOW, this is remarkable.

http://www.macon.com/2011/08/25/1677683/internet-posts-about-death-linked.html#ixzz1Z6nKyjWG

And further down in the article.............."I look down and put a sad look on your face,<B> relating what I was TOLD happened </B>(as you haveno memory of it). I might end up institutionalized for a while so they can try to figure out what caused the blackout, and they may take my guns from me as well as the ability to purchase more, but if I stuck to the story, it&#8217;s doubtful I&#8217;d end up in prison.&#8221; "

And SM also told his mother (If I recall). " they tell me I did something bad"



Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/25/1677683/internet-posts-about-death-linked.html#ixzz1Z7C9OEvh

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Oh, you're right, Tomkat! I'd forgotten about that.

&#8220;And Stephen, in almost a hypnotized, very flat voice said, &#8216;They told me I did something bad. They told me I hurt someone.&#8217; For 20 hours they had been trying to pressure and threaten and coerce him into confessing for a murder,&#8221; Glenda McDaniel said.

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Backwoods said:

This reminds me, too -- I've been meaning to ask: At some point in the full version of the commitment hearing, doesn't Buford ask Patterson whether Stephen told him during the long questioning that he (SM) was not feeling well? I think he did ask that -- and I think Patterson responded that no, SM did not tell him that -- but it was a part I had a lot of trouble hearing. (And, as I've said before, I've been unable to watch the full hearing again, even though I have a copy saved, because my computer just isn't up to handling that large file, apparently.)

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respectfully snipped for focus
Buford did ask Patterson if McD asked to see a doctor or paramedic during either of the two searches, and Patterson responded with a resounding "no." That also calls to mind the detective supporting his arm as they walked up the stairs to his apartment.