Person doing a backbend or hanging upside down in dense foliage

Is it just me or does the close up photo of his/her eyes look like his/her pupil is blown? I opened this photo in paint shop pro and drug my mouse over the eyes and it matched a shade of black.

punklove said:

Is it just me or does the close up photo of his/her eyes look like his/her pupil is blown? I opened this photo in paint shop pro and drug my mouse over the eyes and it matched a shade of black.

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Punk Love again I want to say thank you for all your hard work.

Now I want to say DEAR GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In this picture I'm not really seeing a pupil "blown" Something is up but the person has an eye.

However going back to where you asked "Is this the same girl?" I don't think the poor girl has an eye left. I do not believe her eyelid is shut. He has her hair the one strand going down across her nose. I mean it's beyond weird.

It would be her right eye. I see nothing there. I used to work for years for an Ocularist. When your eye is removed it's just a socket. In order to take someone's eye out though you'd have to cut the muscle. Well, unless you gouged it out. Out of all these pictures I have now seen THIS is the one that freaks me out the most.

At this point I do believe this girl, helmet girl and the back bend person ARE all the SAME girl. God rest her poor soul. Here's the link of who I mean with the missing eye so as not to confuse anyone. It's your link, PL.



http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00611.jpg

BTW, now we can see her right knee. She's posed alright. I believe posed post mortum.

punklove said:

Im not sure what it is, It could be a choker type necklace that is pinching her neck a bit because of the angle of her head. I really dont know, Her jaw line (on our right when looking at the photo) looks a little weird to me as well, though It could just be the angle.



I didnt add anything to the photo, I only resized it 300% because I was attempting to do a side by side of the two.

Bare with me while I brainstorm: This photo really confuses me.

To start - whatever is around her neck.

Try pinching the skin around that part of your neck, even if you barely pinch it then stop it really feels sensitive, try pinching your neck to the extent it looks hers is and see how long you can deal with the feeling.. if it is just a necklace, would she not remove or fix it so its not pinching?

Is this the same girl?
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00611.jpg

If so, you can see the necklace isnt meant to be pinching like that..

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The color you were talking about on your father is called lividity, that coloring happens when the heart stops beating and the blood pools (and causes discoloration) due to gravity. If she died and her arms were over her head its possible thats what that coloring around the hand area is- also, once someone dies the body goes into rigor mortis rather quickly, you can 'pose' the body if you do it near the time of death and it will quickly stiffen to be almost unmovable (after several hours the body will slowly become less stiff).

We know he really liked to pose his victim, so I dont know what to think. She also couldnt be hanging because the branches of the trees would go the other way if she were hanging.
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I do find the jawline bothersome but could be the angle or shadows - the only thing we know for fact is that she has bruises/wounds on her arms, underarms and neck and face.

Im not sure, I dont think its the same person but I cant be certain - if you notice the person hanging upside down doesnt have a bruise in the underarm area, the girl photo does.[/quote]

Good brainstorming.

O.K. the necklace. That's the tassle thingie we had discussed previously. Definately not a necklace pinching her like that. Just doing that with two fingers chokes me. That "thing" it looks like some kind of implement made just for such a thing. Maybe he made it? The only consolation there would be the poor girl has already passed away.

Could the bruises not have yet formed on the underarms when she was hanging?

Again, please know you are appreciated and you do great work.

That missing eye is freaking me out. Again, not sure about the pupil being blown in the other. Maybe that occured the eye injury when at some point he wanted to remove the eye and hadn't found a way yet.

Sweet God that guy should have never, ever walked in society ever again after he abducted that litle girl.

I was looking at this unidentified female and the time period and artificial eye make me think of this girl. Not sure the rest of the description fits. http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/576ufga.html

This is getting too crazy for me. Are we speculating that the woman with the helmet did a backbend with hairy underarms (which somehow Alcala thought was sexually attractive, and then she shaved her underarms for the pictures against the trees? Seems like we are getting pretty far away from our purpose--trying to match these pictures to the missing and unidentified. There were over a thousand pictures in Alcala's collection. He probably did not murder all of these people. Why the desperation to match the pictures to each other? What's the point?

Redbird said:

This is getting too crazy for me. Are we speculating that the woman with the helmet did a backbend with hairy underarms (which somehow Alcala thought was sexually attractive, and then she shaved her underarms for the pictures against the trees? Seems like we are getting pretty far away from our purpose--trying to match these pictures to the missing and unidentified. There were over a thousand pictures in Alcala's collection. He probably did not murder all of these people. Why the desperation to match the pictures to each other? What's the point?

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Well, a man that abducts a little 2nd grader, rapes her and smashes her face with a pipe is crazy. The guy making an escape and being on the run for years is crazy. Having the nerve to work under an assumed name at a theater camp for kids and getting away with it is crazy. Oh yeah and exposing yourself to your own sister is a lil off as well. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Redbird, I understand your frustration. I truly do.

However, Punk Love went through alot of work to match all those side by sides and then some of us are just speculating. Maybe it is crazy. However personally it helps keep me sane. It takes my mind off of worrying about other things.

No, I highly doubt there was shaving goig on etc. Then again this is a guy who took a child up in a remote area. Did unspeakable things to her. A guy that murdered a socialite. A guy that posed dead bodies of women he murdered so who knows? Maybe he did shave people.

You just never know. If we're far from the purpose I don't think anyone has done it purposely. Maybe it's a strategy. What's your thoughts?

I do know Punk Love did a great job with thosephotographs and I am grateful.

Redbird said:

This is getting too crazy for me. Are we speculating that the woman with the helmet did a backbend with hairy underarms (which somehow Alcala thought was sexually attractive, and then she shaved her underarms for the pictures against the trees? Seems like we are getting pretty far away from our purpose--trying to match these pictures to the missing and unidentified. There were over a thousand pictures in Alcala's collection. He probably did not murder all of these people. Why the desperation to match the pictures to each other? What's the point?

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Thank you Redbird! Yes, agree agree agree. I think folks are getting carried away with their imaginations

This is the way my mind works: I am picking out pictures that I think look very sinister, that I think might be likely to be a "trophy" picture. If there is are several of the same person it's nice to group them together, but not all that important. The more clues the better. Anyway, then comes the tedious task of trying to go through all the missing persons websites and try to find people that match by time, MOA, and identifying characteristics. Then all we can do is e-mail our findings to the detective in charge. So far we are not hearing back (or did one person reply?). It's pretty frustrating. I did this with the "man hanging." There are a number of men that are a possible match. I did not get all the way through the websites, but have been making a list. But that's when I came to the conclusion that they must not really be interesting in having any help from us, since we have so little to go on.

I think both of these pictures are sinister. The one of the *hanging man" in my opinion is the most sinister in the collection. The picture of the girl with the trees also is very disturbing. I don't think we noticed for a long time that there was something strange around her neck. Even blown up I can't identify what it was and it may have been something he invented. I do really appreciate people blowing up details that we have questions about, and side by side comparisons of details. I think it would be a mistake to group these two together, though. It causes a lot of confusion for me, because I don't think the two people have a lot in common, aside from how creepy the pictures are.

Redbird said:

This is getting too crazy for me. Are we speculating that the woman with the helmet did a backbend with hairy underarms (which somehow Alcala thought was sexually attractive, and then she shaved her underarms for the pictures against the trees? Seems like we are getting pretty far away from our purpose--trying to match these pictures to the missing and unidentified. There were over a thousand pictures in Alcala's collection. He probably did not murder all of these people. Why the desperation to match the pictures to each other? What's the point?

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This may or may not be the same person. However, whomever this girl is in the motorcycle helmet doing the dancing poses in the trees in the nude did not shave her armpits, there are two pictures where you can see that when they are enlarged, here is one of them, I don't think that's shadow.

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I don't know how to blow it up any more than I did, but maybe someone else can.

Redbird said:

I think both of these pictures are sinister. The one of the *hanging man" in my opinion is the most sinister in the collection. The picture of the girl with the trees also is very disturbing. I don't think we noticed for a long time that there was something strange around her neck. Even blown up I can't identify what it was and it may have been something he invented. I do really appreciate people blowing up details that we have questions about, and side by side comparisons of details. I think it would be a mistake to group these two together, though. It causes a lot of confusion for me, because I don't think the two people have a lot in common, aside from how creepy the pictures are.

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Looks like a wooden bead necklace to me. Nothing sinister about that. Here's a lightened and cropped version of her neck.



Since this really about a different group of pictures, I'm going to post this in the appropriate thread as well.

Filly said:

Isn't it? Unfortunately I came upon it. I took another look because I saw the man's eye. I thought perhaps it was a female from back when alot of women didn't shave under their arms. However, there's no breasts. Plus women wouldn't have under arm hair grow in that pattern.

The other thing is could he be doing a handstand? In ratio to the guy behind him's jeans they're about even. I have a feeling this is the man with the little boy over his head. Maybe Alcala told him to do something whacky and when he had him vulnerable who knows?

Again, horrific. Maybe we can find this man.

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i noticed the jeans are facing the way they would be if this man is bending backwards.Very strange indeed...

Billylee said:

This may or may not be the same person. However, whomever this girl is in the motorcycle helmet doing the dancing poses in the trees in the nude did not shave her armpits, there are two pictures where you can see that when they are enlarged, here is one of them, I don't think that's shadow.

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I don't know how to blow it up any more than I did, but maybe someone else can.

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I also noticed in other pics of this girl/woman that like another picture[ different girl]
they both have front teeth that sort of overlap in the same way?
Could they be sisters?
Or did he get females who all had teeth like that?
if someone can locate and put them side by side focusing on the teeth, it would help.
A lot of missing profiles show teeth or LACK OF...
in smiling pics..thanks.:waitasec:

Redbird said:

This is the way my mind works: I am picking out pictures that I think look very sinister, that I think might be likely to be a "trophy" picture. If there is are several of the same person it's nice to group them together, but not all that important. The more clues the better. Anyway, then comes the tedious task of trying to go through all the missing persons websites and try to find people that match by time, MOA, and identifying characteristics. Then all we can do is e-mail our findings to the detective in charge. So far we are not hearing back (or did one person reply?). It's pretty frustrating. I did this with the "man hanging." There are a number of men that are a possible match. I did not get all the way through the websites, but have been making a list. But that's when I came to the conclusion that they must not really be interesting in having any help from us, since we have so little to go on.

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many seem to depict persons who are drunk/drugged or otherwise intoxicated.
Seems like many have half closed eyes?
Sleepy/drunk/drugged?
Did he ever admit to drugging his victims?

punklove said:

Is it just me or does the close up photo of his/her eyes look like his/her pupil is blown? I opened this photo in paint shop pro and drug my mouse over the eyes and it matched a shade of black.

Click to expand...

Sorry but this girl looks dead to me.Eye look strange.And why is she lying down this way? under a leaf?

Hi, everyone! First post here. Been lurking on this discussion for a while. Everything that follows is just my humble opinion.

This picture didn't make sense to me at first. When it did, it snapped in as Rodney using his shutter timer to run around and get into his own picture. The sketch gives the idea and the less said the better. The main reason I don't see bridging is that there isn't the tiniest indication of strain in the face or the arms. That upper body looks relaxed.



I had looked hard at that picture and didn't notice the blood on the face until it was pointed out on this thread. You can't see whether the left eyeball is gone or still there because a leaf is perfectly in the way, but there is blood trailing from that area. It may not be as much as you'd have if the eyeball had been removed. (Don't suppose anyone here has ever ... ? Never mind!)



Doesn't matter much. She's dead. Been hanging for a while already. That's why the blood trails go the way they do. The discoloration at the top of her forehead is dependent lividity. There may or may not be a gash there as well. Then you have what looks like a faint ligature mark on her neck. The hair that doesn't hang down as it should may be stuck to the blood.

As for who she is, all you have is some hair and her eyebrows. The hair is in deep shadow, but when I brighten it and add some contrast a streaky-light appearance emerges. You get crudely the same look if you do the same things to the ballet dancer's hair. She's probably the best candidate. Woodsy setting. Hair, skin, and eyebrows fairly consistent. Still, there's far too little to go on.



(Pretty upsetting material and if the mods want to delete or edit anything I'm fine with it.)

I think your theory is quite plausible. This picture is so disturbing it is hard to forget. I still think this is a male. Do you have any comments Wildhuncher to suggest this person is definitely a female? To me this person has very straight hair and the girl has wavy hair--not the same person. Also the girl's hair does not have a reddish tint as the hanging person does.

The person never looked anything but female to me. The beginnings of a swell of breasts are there. No trace of facial stubble, etc. As far as matching the dancer, the lighting doesn't make for good a good direct comparison of the hair color which is why I was trying to play with brightness, contrast, gamma ... And there's too little facial area in the one case. I see "consistent with" but it's nothing I'd bet on.

Redbird said:

This is getting too crazy for me. Are we speculating that the woman with the helmet did a backbend with hairy underarms (which somehow Alcala thought was sexually attractive, and then she shaved her underarms for the pictures against the trees? Seems like we are getting pretty far away from our purpose--trying to match these pictures to the missing and unidentified. There were over a thousand pictures in Alcala's collection. He probably did not murder all of these people. Why the desperation to match the pictures to each other? What's the point?

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I dont think the two people are the same, I pointed out several reasons why -The lack of hair under the arm of the helmut girl, the hair on the person doing the backbend had much less curly hair than the helmut girl, there were bruises on the helmut girl that are lacking on the backbend person, the eyebrows arent the same.. the list goes on and on.

Solving any mystery requires a person to look at every single option - not just what is logical.

Sure, you can look at the backbend photo and just not bother to even think about that person could perhaps be photographed somewhere else in his 'collection' or you could just assume thats the only photo. Add to that the fact that you cant see much of that persons face in the backbend face, I can understand why people want to see if there is a 'match' in the rest of the photos - and the only way you can prove or disprove that the backbend person isnt somewhere else in the photos is to compare that photo to others.

We have to believe that he kept these photos (out of all the others) for a reason, there must be some sort of clue in them so I think sometimes we may look a little hard for that reason.

I think we also need to keep in mind according to LE there were more than 1000 pictures and I am presuming (don't know for a fact) that LE picked these particular pictures out, not Alcala. One of the articles implied it was because these were the ones that were decent enough to show and the others weren't. We do know not a great deal of thought went into presenting these pictures and it is certainly a shame they didn't release them earlier. I think they thought if they just quickly put these out victims family and friends and people still alive would come forward.