The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #6

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fullmoon said:
There is still no nexus, or connection, to the women. If we are to believe someone was familiar enough to one of the women to get them to open the door in the middle of the night, that link has not yet become apparent, i.e., Cox, Carnahan, Garrison.
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I would certainly agree with that view. None of these individuals could be said to be trusted enough to open the door at that hour of night.
 
Missouri Mule said:
I would certainly agree with that view. None of these individuals could be said to be trusted enough to open the door at that hour of night.
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I agree with you. I guess one thing we all need to ask ourselves/determine is, was there any truth to the story Garrison told law enforcement that resulted in the dig/search of the Robb farm

And, if there was truth in his story that lead police to the Robb farm, just what was Garrisons involvement directly or indirectly in the 3MW case.

And, if he did have direct or indirect connections to the 3MW crime, who was he associated with in the month or so he was out of prison leading up to the 3MW crime.
 
...I guess one thing we all need to ask ourselves/determine is, was there any truth to the story Garrison told law enforcement that resulted in the dig/search of the Robb farm

And, if there was truth in his story that lead police to the Robb farm, just what was Garrisons involvement directly or indirectly in the 3MW case.

And, if he did have direct or indirect connections to the 3MW crime, who was he associated with in the month or so he was out of prison leading up to the 3MW crime.
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I believe there was some nugget of truth - enough for LE to do the dig. If it is true there are four LE agencies that believe this is a sex crime, and Garrison is a sexual predator, and Garrison is one of the GJ3, I am leaning toward him as being the perp. The problem, once again, is how he knew these women and how did he get in the house?
 
fullmoon said:
I believe there was some nugget of truth - enough for LE to do the dig. If it is true there are four LE agencies that believe this is a sex crime, and Garrison is a sexual predator, and Garrison is one of the GJ3, I am leaning toward him as being the perp. The problem, once again, is how he knew these women and how did he get in the house?
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Personally speaking I would rank him rather down low on the often stated list of 10 probable suspects. As I understand it, although he was convicted of rape, he is not actually known as a terribly violent type of individual as I understand it. Of all of the possible suspects I truly doubt he was that one. And his tepid response to his conviction was so mild and meek it did not seem that of a brutal killer. I'd probably rank him about #10. Probably knows something but then again may know nothing. I do believe that he and Cox likely knew one another based on their nearly identical statements made about the beginnings of the investigation.

I'd look more instead to the remainder of the GJ3, Cox and who those other suspects would be. I would also want to know who Cox associated with. His phony and unneeded alibi puts him high up the list in my view. He is undoubtedly a manipulator and has a very violent past but is not likely the one who gained entry into the home. Of course there is a difference of opinion as to whether any of the perps actually got into the house. It is said that the police only stated that the women exited from the home not that anyone actually entered the house to then abduct and remove them from the house. That's an open question.
 
Missouri Mule said:
Personally speaking I would rank him rather down low on the often stated list of 10 probable suspects. As I understand it, although he was convicted of rape, he is not actually known as a terribly violent type of individual as I understand it. Of all of the possible suspects I truly doubt he was that one. And his tepid response to his conviction was so mild and meek it did not seem that of a brutal killer. I'd probably rank him about #10. Probably knows something but then again may know nothing. I do believe that he and Cox likely knew one another based on their nearly identical statements made about the beginnings of the investigation.

I'd look more instead to the remainder of the GJ3, Cox and who those other suspects would be. I would also want to know who Cox associated with. His phony and unneeded alibi puts him high up the list in my view. He is undoubtedly a manipulator and has a very violent past but is not likely the one who gained entry into the home. Of course there is a difference of opinion as to whether any of the perps actually got into the house. It is said that the police only stated that the women exited from the home not that anyone actually entered the house to then abduct and remove them from the house. That's an open question.
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I don't understand why Garrison would be low on the list. If anything, I think he should be high on the list. One, he was one of the GJ3 right. Two, he was the one who lead police to the Robb Farm. Three, he was definitely capable of breaking into a college students apartment through the window, and holding and raping her at knife point, right?

I would think, based on just those points, he would be at the top of the list....right?
 
monkeymann said:
I don't understand why Garrison would be low on the list. If anything, I think he should be high on the list. One, he was one of the GJ3 right. Two, he was the one who lead police to the Robb Farm. Three, he was definitely capable of breaking into a college students apartment through the window, and holding and raping her at knife point, right?

I would think, based on just those points, he would be at the top of the list....right?
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I'm going on what I have been told by trusted sources. i too don't believe he did it although he may have had a part in it after the fact. Just don't know.

Note: Yesterday I watched again the "Vanished" trailer that never made it into a full blown program but it had two interviews; one with Mrs. McCall and one with Det. Asher. She said she would like to confront two individuals; one of them was Cox and an unnamed individual not in prison. Although she did not name Cox specifically, Det. Asher made implied reference (based on Cox's statements made previously by him). Garrison was not mentioned. That's a clue in my opinion. I have no idea who the other individual was.

From what I know none of the leads Garrison provided ever came to anything. What that means I do not know. Perhaps his memory failed him. I wasn't in on the investigation and could only speculate.
 
In regards to Garrison, I'm not sure where I'd place him on a list, but I do know that criminals can increase the severity of their crimes over time. For example, one guy can go from a peeping Tom, to a rapist because they need "more". It is not too uncommon for someone to go from just a rapist, to a killer. I've seen it in many cases.
 
amber1 said:
In regards to Garrison, I'm not sure where I'd place him on a list, but I do know that criminals can increase the severity of their crimes over time. For example, one guy can go from a peeping Tom, to a rapist because they need "more". It is not too uncommon for someone to go from just a rapist, to a killer. I've seen it in many cases.
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I'm going to be very cautious about what I am going to say here. I do not know if any of the GJ3 had a history of being a "peeping tom" I don't have their rap sheets.

Having said that, it would not surprise me if there isn't someone connected to this case with that background. That remains to be seen. I tend to doubt any of the GJ3 do but that is just a wild guess.
 
Just wanted to share a news story with everyone. Sad that they decided to do this.

"The Heartland Crime Stoppers is no more. In an email to News Talk KZRG, coordinator Paula Bone says the Crime Stoppers board voted last night to dissolve the organization. News Talk KZRG has reached out for comment."
 
former central time said:
The so-called Grand Jury 3 (GJ3) is mentioned here a lot. I always thought I knew the basic concept of a grand jury, and what they are and aren’t. But for the curious, read more.



Grand juries in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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What did you think it was ? They need more then " mere suspicion " to present a case . And because that jury did not see enough evidence for a true bill , dosen't mean it wasn't there . Since 1992 there have been more sucessful homicide prosecutions without bodies.

TT
 
TexasT said:
What did you think it was ? They need more then " mere suspicion " to present a case . And because that jury did not see enough evidence for a true bill , dosen't mean it wasn't there . Since 1992 there have been more sucessful homicide prosecutions without bodies.

TT
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I knew the basic concept of Grand Juries and never had much of an opinion about them. After reading this, I find them more of an anachronism of modern investigation/criminology. I didn’t not know that only half or so States in the US continues to use them, while the rest of the World has abolished them. Even in the US, preliminary hearings are the modern trend and I was unaware of the legal criticism of GJ.

As to this case, the GJ maybe spot on, I have no idea of the GJ practices of Missouri in 1992. As I’ve said before, this case is built on VERY little physical evidence and is driven by eyewitnesses and people’s accounts. Here too, there are legions of scholarly work which question their effectiveness as well. I posted the example on 60 Minutes, where a woman was raped in North Carolina in the 80‘s and her fine and heavily detailed eyewitness account put the rapist away. However, DNA evidence revealed she was wrong. Eyewitnesses have a place in investigations, no question. But, they really create pop in the media and are good on juries, or a factor to discredit TO the jury if you’re on the other side.
 
This case is haunting me. I find myself thinking about it several times a day.

Does anyone know what happened to Sherrill's dog Cinnamon? I realise the dog will be dead by now but I was just curious. I wish dogs could talk. Cinnamon likely witnessed the whole thing.
 
Does anyone know what happened to Sherrill's dog Cinnamon? I realise the dog will be dead by now but I was just curious. I wish dogs could talk. Cinnamon likely witnessed the whole thing.
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I think I read somehwere that a relative adopted Cinnamon. Yes, I'm pretty sure the dog was aware of what had happened. I read an article that noted a psychic had a "session" with Cinnamon. I personally don't believe in that stuff, but it was probably a reflection of how desperate people were to find clues on the women's whereabouts.
 
100% agree with Hurricane who has said there two crime scenes. The one where they women were taken and the second to where they were taken.
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If they were not found in the house, then it's obvious there are at least two crime scenes. I don't see that as a huge revelation.

I do agree with you, Richard, regarding the DNA. I think there is unidentifiable DNA that LE may think is related to this crime.
 
In viewing several photos of the exterior of the house at 1717 e delmar shortly after the girls were reported missing whereby their cars are both parked at the front entrance, and Sherrill's car was parked in the carport -- where do you think the perp parked his vehicle? It seems it would be difficult to get three women out the front door or any door and out to a vehicle if the vehicle was not parked within very close proximity to the door used to exit the home.
 
AppleScout said:
In viewing several photos of the exterior of the house at 1717 e delmar shortly after the girls were reported missing whereby their cars are both parked at the front entrance, and Sherrill's car was parked in the carport -- where do you think the perp parked his vehicle? It seems it would be difficult to get three women out the front door or any door and out to a vehicle if the vehicle was not parked within very close proximity to the door used to exit the home.
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I don't want to take credit for this but I have read a scenario where the "van" was backed up to the porch and the women loaded in through the side doors. In that event there would have been more enough room to have gotten the van in place and the women inside.

It is my belief the van (if that is what was used) was originally parked at the corner of Kentwood and Delmar and then moved in place.

I do not believe the "porch lady's" account is verifiable and I tend to discount it. However, I do believe the newspaper carrier and the "Yard Sale Lady's" account are much more closer to the probable timeline. Newspaper carriers run on tight schedules and one can almost set their clocks when they will be there. The "Yard Sale Lady's" account seems very similar as I understand it.
 
From what I know of the situation and I think I know it fairly well, Michael Clay, who has spoken personally about this matter, could not and should not be viewed as a realistic suspect. He comes off to me and others (I believe) as a very rational and circumspect man who is a positive contributor to society, his family, a father, a husband, and is to be commended to come out and speak about this sad period in the past.

The truth be known, most of us, in our youth did some rather stupid things. And many of us were just lucky to be perfectly honest. I don't think a person really matures until they are 25 years old or even older.

I have relatives who worked in a correctional facility. It is not an exaggeration to say that a substantial majority are liars, manipulators and are not to be believed. Another group who wound up in jail were both stupid and unlucky. Bottom line is that I don't see the institutional vandalism matter as a serious motive to have committed these heinous murders.

Hurricane has done extensive, exhausting and exacting work on this case. If he says and believes something it is not to be taken lightly. Few here, including myself, have done the work he has done. I agree with him; not to score points, but to deal in reality. This vandalism issue is a complete dry hole in my opinion and most other informed people who have looked at this case agree. My $0.02 for today.
 
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